US marks International Women's Day as abortion battle heats up

they are absolutely right to stop abortion. Just because you're stupid enough to get knocked up in the first place, doesn't give you the right to throw a life in the garbage. People are disgusting.

anonymous wrote:

they are absolutely right to stop abortion. Just because you're stupid enough to get knocked up in the first place, doesn't give you the right to throw a life in the garbage. People are disgusting.

Oh you make me SICK! Rape or incest victims aren't dumb. Its the men who commit the violent crimes that cause these women to become knocked up...as you put it.

anonymous wrote:

they are absolutely right to stop abortion. Just because you're stupid enough to get knocked up in the first place, doesn't give you the right to throw a life in the garbage. People are disgusting.

Wow! I'm assuming that you have been raped (or have a daughter that was raped if you are a male)so you are speaking from your own experience. Would you like to repeat this comment to a female who has been raped? I cannot believe it is 2005 and I am reading this. What have you done personally to support a welfare mom? Are you a foster parent or have you ever been one? How much money have you spent in the last few years supporting such organizations? Women will still choose to have abortions regardless of this law. What would be more productive is for you to donate your time or money to foster care and educating young men and women about consequences of unprotected intercourse. Everyone will agree that abortions will continue to occur as they did before Roe vs Wade. Prevention of these unwanted pregnancies should be what we focus our attention on.

Mary wrote:

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Wow! I'm assuming that you have been raped (or have a daughter that was raped if you are a male)so you are speaking from your own experience. Would you like to repeat this comment to a female who has been raped? I cannot believe it is 2005 and I am reading this. What have you done personally to support a welfare mom? Are you a foster parent or have you ever been one? How much money have you spent in the last few years supporting such organizations? Women will still choose to have abortions regardless of this law. What would be more productive is for you to donate your time or money to foster care and educating young men and women about consequences of unprotected intercourse. Everyone will agree that abortions will continue to occur as they did before Roe vs Wade. Prevention of these unwanted pregnancies should be what we focus our attention on.

Let’s examine why, exactly, abortions are legal. Is it because of rape, incest or life of the mother? No(though the SD law allows for rape victims to take the abortion pill before a pregnancy test is taken), since less than 1% of abortions are because these reasons. This means that 99% of abortions are pregnancies that result from consensual sex. The truth is that abortion takes away accountability, consequence and responsibility. Abortion is legal because it’s easier, it’s more convenient. 99% of abortions are convenience abortions.
Most unwanted pregnancies could have been avoided if there was a little responsibility, and I don’t mean birth control.
Consensual means that both people consented to have sex.
If you can’t afford a baby, then don’t have sex during the times that you could become pregnant. If it still happens, look to the nearest church, charity group, women’s shelter or women’s resource center for help. Lest we forget that putting a child up for adoption is free while abortions tend to be expensive.
If you’re too young to have a baby, you shouldn’t be having sex in the first place but if you are, then don’t have sex during the times that you could become pregnant.
If you just don’t want a baby, if it would be more convenient not to be pregnant, then don’t have sex during the times that you could become pregnant.
It comes down to simple common sense. You can control your animal instincts. Women, if you’re more responsible it forces men to be as well.
Your right to choose does not exist after the fact, but rather, at the point where you choose whether or not to engage in consensual sex is where this right exists.
Where do babies come from? Having sex during the times that you could become pregnant. How should you avoid an unwanted pregnancy? Don’t have sex during the times that you could become pregnant. Take some accountability for your actions. It’s just that easy.

I cannot pretend to know what it is like to be raped or to give birth, but neither you nor I can assume to know what it is like to be killed by being cut into pieces or by having saline injected into the top of our heads, or by being pulled down the birth canal then having scissors stuck into the back of our heads and then having our brain suctioned out. After you've had that experience, please come back and enlighten the rest of us, but it doesn't sound all that pleasant to me. Let's not let one person’s rights supercede another’s.

Paul wrote:

I cannot pretend to know what it is like to be raped or to give birth, but neither you nor I can assume to know what it is like to be killed by being cut into pieces or by having saline injected into the top of our heads, or by being pulled down the birth canal then having scissors stuck into the back of our heads and then having our brain suctioned out. After you've had that experience, please come back and enlighten the rest of us, but it doesn't sound all that pleasant to me. Let's not let one person�s rights supercede another�s.

I'm pretty sure you've not done research on abortion methods or the statistics at all. The majority of abortions are first trimester, where dilating the cervix ends the pregnancy. There is no fetal consciousness at all, no pain, and certainly nothing injected into the fetus.

Abortion is a terrible tragedy for everyone. No woman or doctor relishes having or performing one. Abortion should be rare, there should be adequate support and information son fewer unwanted pregnancies occur. Late term abortions are EXTREMELY rare, and are a tiny fraction of a percentage of all abortions- and are usually performed under even more tragic circumstances where a baby was not going to survive birth or long afterwards- or the mother was not.

Your descriptions and statistics are incorrect and skewed. But few would disagree that there should be less abortion- not because of legislation but because there are fewer unintended pregnacies.

Ami wrote:

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I'm pretty sure you've not done research on abortion methods or the statistics at all. The majority of abortions are first trimester, where dilating the cervix ends the pregnancy. There is no fetal consciousness at all, no pain, and certainly nothing injected into the fetus.

Abortion is a terrible tragedy for everyone. No woman or doctor relishes having or performing one. Abortion should be rare, there should be adequate support and information son fewer unwanted pregnancies occur. Late term abortions are EXTREMELY rare, and are a tiny fraction of a percentage of all abortions- and are usually performed under even more tragic circumstances where a baby was not going to survive birth or long afterwards- or the mother was not.

Your descriptions and statistics are incorrect and skewed. But few would disagree that there should be less abortion- not because of legislation but because there are fewer unintended pregnacies.

In 1984, then-Surgeon General C. Everett Koop estimated that about 4,000 “third trimester”(after 26 weeks) abortions occur each year in the United States, and that “less than five percent of that number have induced abortion because of a known defect in the fetus.”

Yes, the number of late term abortions are rare, but they are still happening. Also, most are not due to the health of the child or mother. I merely used these forms of abortion as an example. So, let's be clear, it's not ending a pregnancy it's taking a life. Let's just call it what it is, but I'm glad that you agree with the overall point.

Paul wrote:

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In 1984, then-Surgeon General C. Everett Koop estimated that about 4,000 �third trimester�(after 26 weeks) abortions occur each year in the United States, and that �less than five percent of that number have induced abortion because of a known defect in the fetus.�

Yes, the number of late term abortions are rare, but they are still happening. Also, most are not due to the health of the child or mother. I merely used these forms of abortion as an example. So, let's be clear, it's not ending a pregnancy it's taking a life. Let's just call it what it is, but I'm glad that you agree with the overall point.

That statistic is 22 year old. Right now, there are just 10 clinics in 7 states where third trimester abortion is performed- in a tiny, tiny fraction of all abortions performed there. There are restrictions on who has them and why and frankly, if someone has a third trimester abortion their rationale or their doctor's is none of my business. Only a woman, her doctor, and perhaps some of her family knows why a medical procedure was done. It is so rare and so personal.

I want abortion to stay safe, rare, and legal. It is not a good thing for anyone, but our society has absolutely no preparedness for supporting women or their children if we make it illegal. None.

Quote:"I want abortion to stay safe, rare, and legal. It is not a good thing for anyone, but our society has absolutely no preparedness for supporting women or their children if we make it illegal. None."

Well put.

Rita wrote:

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Oh you make me SICK! Rape or incest victims aren't dumb. Its the men who commit the violent crimes that cause these women to become knocked up...as you put it.

you are an idiot, men are not responsible for womens pregnancies. its a 50/50 situation. the woman is equally responsible as the man is.

you are a sexist chauvanist woman

blondebabe wrote:

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you are an idiot, men are not responsible for womens pregnancies. its a 50/50 situation. the woman is equally responsible as the man is.

you are a sexist chauvanist woman

I think Rita meant in the case of rape or incest, the man is responsible. A woman who is assaulted and becomes pregnant is not at fault for what happened. She is not obligated morally or legally to carry a pregnancy to term that was inflicted upon her.

Ami wrote:

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I think Rita meant in the case of rape or incest, the man is responsible. A woman who is assaulted and becomes pregnant is not at fault for what happened. She is not obligated morally or legally to carry a pregnancy to term that was inflicted upon her.

i agree in rape women are not responsible, but we have to admit that women can be just as capable of intiating incest especially if the family has a history of it, so incest can not be blamed fully on men as women can be equally responsible. i have worked with people in these conditions and i have seen incest is equally as damaging to males

Quote Ami:
"I think Rita meant in the case of rape or incest, the man is responsible. A woman who is assaulted and becomes pregnant is not at fault for what happened. She is not obligated morally or legally to carry a pregnancy to term that was inflicted upon her."

Ami,thank you. That is exactly what I meant.

Quote from blondebabe:
"you are an idiot, men are not responsible for womens pregnancies. its a 50/50 situation. the woman is equally responsible as the man is.
you are a sexist chauvanist woman"

As for you blondebabe,how dare you make a assumption on me being a sexist chauvanist woman. That is very rude. As far as incest goes the decision here was on abortion. I have worked with incest victims who were made pregnant by their FATHERS. Don't know how anyone can say that a incest victim shouldn't be allowed to have a abortion. Why should a inocent child be made to suffer for the actions of a idiot adult?

Quote Ami: "I want abortion to stay safe, rare, and legal. It is not a good thing for anyone, but our society has absolutely no preparedness for supporting women or their children if we make it illegal. None."

Well said.
Just recently in Canada, our new Conservative Prime Minister (who is Christian and, quietly, pro-life) just scrapped a proposed National Child Care program, in favour of just handing out $1200 per year to parents w/ young children. What the heck is a parent supposed to do with $1200/yr?! That's not going to pay for good, quality childcare all year round, I'm pretty sure. Why can't people who are pro-life, spend more of their energy on sex education and campaining for social programs, instead of harrassing people who are pro-choice? The choice of a pregnant woman shouldn't be between poverty, adoption or abortion. BIRTHRIGHT, for instance, is a good organization to support, no matter what side of the aborition argument you're on.

Let me tell you something. Not everyone who gets pregnant has the choice. I have a friend who was raped and became pregnant. So do you think she was stupid to get knocked up? Is she disgusting? You have no right to judge anyone. If it's legally a woman's right to get an abortion, then that's her right. No one's trying to force you to get one.

Rita wrote:

Quote Ami:
"I think Rita meant in the case of rape or incest, the man is responsible. A woman who is assaulted and becomes pregnant is not at fault for what happened. She is not obligated morally or legally to carry a pregnancy to term that was inflicted upon her."

Ami,thank you. That is exactly what I meant.

Quote from blondebabe:
"you are an idiot, men are not responsible for womens pregnancies. its a 50/50 situation. the woman is equally responsible as the man is.
you are a sexist chauvanist woman"

As for you blondebabe,how dare you make a assumption on me being a sexist chauvanist woman. That is very rude. As far as incest goes the decision here was on abortion. I have worked with incest victims who were made pregnant by their FATHERS. Don't know how anyone can say that a incest victim shouldn't be allowed to have a abortion. Why should a inocent child be made to suffer for the actions of a idiot adult?

of course a woman has the right to have an abortion should she become pregnant by incest. i am telling you that women can and do innitiate incest too. i have worked with many young men and boys who have seen their own mothers innitiate incest on an older sibling. you must learn to be objective and impartial. men and FATHERS are not the only people to behave in such disgusting ways. if we are to help stop such thingd from occuring altogether we must focus on the guilty women as well as the men. incest can be a learned behaviour especially if a young child is exposed to it.

your feminist sort of views are sexist, chauvenist and above all out-dated in this modern world. no one on this planet is perfect- WOMEN, men, white people, black people, christians, jews and so on. it may pain you to admit that women can be equally as guilty, but if you do not admit it, the problem will never go away and people will have to train to do my job for a very long time

"If you can’t afford a baby, then don’t have sex during the times that you could become pregnant. If it still happens, look to the nearest church, charity group, women’s shelter or women’s resource center for help. Lest we forget that putting a child up for adoption is free while abortions tend to be expensive.It comes down to simple common sense...... You can control your animal instincts. Women, if you’re more responsible it forces men to be as well.
Your right to choose does not exist after the fact, but rather, at the point where you choose whether or not to engage in consensual sex is where this right exists.
Where do babies come from? Having sex during the times that you could become pregnant. How should you avoid an unwanted pregnancy? Don’t have sex during the times that you could become pregnant. Take some accountability for your actions. It’s just that easy."

Ok, Paul. If you want to talk about women's reproductive cycles, let's talk about them.
If a woman't period is irregular, then you cannot predict accurately when ovulation occurs, and so no time is "safe". No birth control method is perfect, except abstinance, which is not really a method most people want to use on a life-long basis.
Also, I think that it is more humane and responsible to not give birth until I can bring up a child in a stable and loving home, than to give away my child to the foster-care system which, lets face it, tends to seriousl screw kids up. I could never live with myself knowing that my child was alone in the world, with god-knows who raising it. Maybe it would be lucky and go to a good home, but I would always worry that my baby was being abused or not given the love it needed. But that is my belief, and it is up to every woman to choose what she feels is best for herself and for her potential child.

blondebabe wrote:

<quoted text>

of course a woman has the right to have an abortion should she become pregnant by incest. i am telling you that women can and do innitiate incest too. i have worked with many young men and boys who have seen their own mothers innitiate incest on an older sibling. you must learn to be objective and impartial. men and FATHERS are not the only people to behave in such disgusting ways. if we are to help stop such thingd from occuring altogether we must focus on the guilty women as well as the men. incest can be a learned behaviour especially if a young child is exposed to it.

your feminist sort of views are sexist, chauvenist and above all out-dated in this modern world. no one on this planet is perfect- WOMEN, men, white people, black people, christians, jews and so on. it may pain you to admit that women can be equally as guilty, but if you do not admit it, the problem will never go away and people will have to train to do my job for a very long time

What is wrong with being pro-choice? I have not said all people are perfect. What gives you the right to be so judgemental? I am a social worker and have dealt with such cases that you claim to have worked with. Train to do your job---I hope there are more intelligent people out there who attain to higher standards then yourself.
Each abortion case such be dealt with on a individual case level. In the UK there have been to many cases of abused kids,who slipped through the cracks in the social system. I think a abortion should be a personal individual decision. You think I am old fashion. No I am not. Just think a person should have the right to make up her own mind about abortion. If she wants to keep the child--then fine. That is her choice. If she decides on abortion,I will not be judgemental of her.

"to admit that women can be equally as guilty"

Women can be equally guilty. But in most cases I have worked with on incest cases. The girls have ranged in age from 6 to 16. But I hope you aren't saying a 6 year old little girl can be as equally guilty. Because I would disagree with you. I have yet to see an incest case where the GIRLS(not talking about boys or men)are equally as guilty.

rita wrote:

<quoted text>

What is wrong with being pro-choice? I have not said all people are perfect. What gives you the right to be so judgemental? I am a social worker and have dealt with such cases that you claim to have worked with. Train to do your job---I hope there are more intelligent people out there who attain to higher standards then yourself.
Each abortion case such be dealt with on a individual case level. In the UK there have been to many cases of abused kids,who slipped through the cracks in the social system. I think a abortion should be a personal individual decision. You think I am old fashion. No I am not. Just think a person should have the right to make up her own mind about abortion. If she wants to keep the child--then fine. That is her choice. If she decides on abortion,I will not be judgemental of her.

i am completely in support of pro-choice, but this is not what i am talking about.

what i am talking about is that you seem to believe that the blame can be pinned on one group of people- men, while ignoring all the others that commit these crimes. by ignoring others such as women, the problem will never go away. we need to focus on everybody whp commit these crimes not just men.

incest can be a learned behaviour, but as i psychologist i also believe through evidence that it may have a biological origin in some cases. because of this it will never be completely eliminated. but we can do our very best to reduce the problem as low as humanly possible. i simply ask you to be scientific, objective and impartial when dealing with this problem. allowing your emotions to influence your behaviour and views of men will not help at all.

i do not mean to be judgemental, but i really do think we need to focus on all people who commit these crimes, not just the men