How the Cultural Elites Are Destroying the Episcopal Church

from virtueonline:

"Bonnie Anderson, President of the House of Deputies, talked about the need for TEC to be restructured, but she was a lot more direct when she said,'Either we meet the challenge or become irrelevant and, eventually, bankrupt.' Those are words Jefferts Schori did not want to hear, but they may be closer to the truth.

"She went on to bewail The Episcopal Church's declining membership noting that since 2000 TEC's membership has declined by 16%'and we lose about 50,000 members per year.'

"COO Bishop Stacy Sauls went so far as to talk about survival.'Vestries, councils, and boards have a fiduciary duty to use financial assets so that the institution survives, but survival is not a value of the Gospel this institution exists to serve ...'

"This is the desperate state of the Episcopal Church coming from its own leaders - the elite of the elite - the supposedly bright lights showing us the way forward out of the descending darkness."

Will the last person to leave TEC please turn off the light.

YAWN! Another op-ed piece from a virulent anti-Episcopalian blogger. Interesting that we had no articles from the House of Bishops meeting that just ended printed here in an Episcopalian Forum.

YAWN! A typical TEC response to quotes from TEC's own officer who says without change, TEC will become irrelevant (already has except in the minds of remaining TEC members) and bankrupt. It is like the captain of the Titanic, upon hearing there is water in the hold, responding with a YAWN!

Listen to the Word wrote:

YAWN! A typical TEC response to quotes from TEC's own officer who says without change, TEC will become irrelevant (already has except in the minds of remaining TEC members) and bankrupt. It is like the captain of the Titanic, upon hearing there is water in the hold, responding with a YAWN!

The analogy is not at all apt as it assumes McCabe has some ability or authority to respond to the impending disaster. The article makes it very clear that TEO's management is aware of the problem and is taking steps to address it. The real problem is that their response is to provide more of the very policies that have put them in the precarious position in which they now find themselves. SSB? Abortion on demand? Communion of the unbaptized? Denial of the physical resurrection? The list goes on and on. David Virtue may be a harsh critic of the organization but he hasn't made up the statistics that underlie the article.

George wrote:

<quoted text>
The analogy is not at all apt as it assumes McCabe has some ability or authority to respond to the impending disaster. The article makes it very clear that TEO's management is aware of the problem and is taking steps to address it. The real problem is that their response is to provide more of the very policies that have put them in the precarious position in which they now find themselves. SSB? Abortion on demand? Communion of the unbaptized? Denial of the physical resurrection? The list goes on and on. David Virtue may be a harsh critic of the organization but he hasn't made up the statistics that underlie the article.

Oh Ye of little faith!

What is happening is exactly what is supposed to happen.

Those who cannot move with the Teachings of Christ Jesus will eventually find their supposedly safe hypocritical and bigoted views to be relegated to the dustbin.

Let these who cannot accept the ministry of Christ Jesus split off, mutiny, haul away and revolt. Let them claim the superiority of being self-proclaimed "orthodox." Let them whine about how high and mighty The Episcopal Church USED to be.

Rev. Ken

Statistics mean absolutely nothing, unless you try to structure your system of beliefs in order to increase the number of pew warmers.

Rev. Ken

RevKen wrote:

Statistics mean absolutely nothing, unless you try to structure your system of beliefs in order to increase the number of pew warmers ...

Tell that to Bonnie.

"She went on to bewail The Episcopal Church's declining membership noting that since 2000 TEC's membership has declined by 16%'and we lose about 50,000 members per year.'"

RevKen wrote:

<quoted text>
Oh Ye of little faith!
What is happening is exactly what is supposed to happen.
Those who cannot move with the Teachings of Christ Jesus will eventually find their supposedly safe hypocritical and bigoted views to be relegated to the dustbin.
Let these who cannot accept the ministry of Christ Jesus split off, mutiny, haul away and revolt. Let them claim the superiority of being self-proclaimed "orthodox." Let them whine about how high and mighty The Episcopal Church USED to be.
Rev. Ken
Statistics mean absolutely nothing, unless you try to structure your system of beliefs in order to increase the number of pew warmers.
Rev. Ken

YOUR leaders are the ones concerned about TEO's decline, not I. I welcome it. And your lack of concern with statistics and your claim that they mean nothing proves TEO is hopelessly lost. Every single one of those "meaningless" numbers is a soul in need of Christ. So when you lack concern with numbers, it clearly evidences a lack of concern with the Great Commission.

George wrote:

<quoted text>
YOUR leaders are the ones concerned about TEO's decline, not I. I welcome it. And your lack of concern with statistics and your claim that they mean nothing proves TEO is hopelessly lost. Every single one of those "meaningless" numbers is a soul in need of Christ. So when you lack concern with numbers, it clearly evidences a lack of concern with the Great Commission.

Some of our 'leaders' have left. Others are welcome to with out fear of eternal damnation.

IMHO, I'll take quality over quantity any day of the week, after all Jesus only had 12.

I find it odd you are wanting the decline, it makes me wonder what perfect church you belong to and how many perfect members attend.

I suppose you have no need of reconciliation as you are always perfect, except for that perfect Love Jesus talked about.

I also find it odd that you think it's more important to convert than to follow what Jesus called the two greatest commandment.

Of course, I find you odd, pretending to be a Christian when you are just another lawyer for the accuser.

So, what the perfect church you belong to? Don't forget:

Mark 2:
But when Yeshua heard, he said to them,“The healthy have no need for a physician, but those who have become very ill; I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners.”

Or

Luke 5:31 Jesus answered them, "It is not the healthy who need a doctor, but the sick.

Or even

Matthew 9:13 But go and learn what this means:'I desire mercy, not sacrifice.' For I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners."

Good to hear you don't need Jesus, have you any use for God or do you just like 'playing' Him?

RevKen wrote:

<quoted text>
Oh Ye of little faith!
What is happening is exactly what is supposed to happen.
Those who cannot move with the Teachings of Christ Jesus will eventually find their supposedly safe hypocritical and bigoted views to be relegated to the dustbin.
Let these who cannot accept the ministry of Christ Jesus split off, mutiny, haul away and revolt. Let them claim the superiority of being self-proclaimed "orthodox." Let them whine about how high and mighty The Episcopal Church USED to be.
Rev. Ken
Statistics mean absolutely nothing, unless you try to structure your system of beliefs in order to increase the number of pew warmers.
Rev. Ken

Amen!

Sunday only Christians are hardly Christian....

RevKen wrote:

<quoted text>
Oh Ye of little faith!
What is happening is exactly what is supposed to happen.
Those who cannot move with the Teachings of Christ Jesus will eventually find their supposedly safe hypocritical and bigoted views to be relegated to the dustbin.
Let these who cannot accept the ministry of Christ Jesus split off, mutiny, haul away and revolt. Let them claim the superiority of being self-proclaimed "orthodox." Let them whine about how high and mighty The Episcopal Church USED to be.
Rev. Ken
Statistics mean absolutely nothing, unless you try to structure your system of beliefs in order to increase the number of pew warmers.
Rev. Ken

Amen!

Losing members like Almost had a Thought and Vacuous Joe is no problem for me. They were never really members of the church to begin with they were simply space holders.

The Communion of Saints we have been told will decrease and be persecuted as we near 'End Times'.

12:43 pm, Tuesday, April 24, 2012:
RE: How the Cultural Elites Are Destroying the Episcopal Church
..... Anyone can vote with their money which of the many belief systems to support or not to support. Those who attend services, whether divine or not, must feel that they get good value for their money to continue supporting their belief system.

MiddleWay wrote:

<quoted text>
Some of our 'leaders' have left. Others are welcome to with out fear of eternal damnation.
IMHO, I'll take quality over quantity any day of the week, after all Jesus only had 12....

Hey SFB - the leaders referenced in the article are people like Stacy Sauls and Bonnie Anderson and the Executive Council. THEY are concerned even if you are not.

George wrote:

... the leaders referenced in the article are people like Stacy Sauls and Bonnie Anderson and the Executive Council. THEY are concerned even if ...

... the PB isn't.

"Presiding Bishop Jefferts Schori tried to put the best spin on things when she talked about 'collective grief' at the state of the church and called on the Council 'to let go of suspicion, assumptions about others' motives, and power politics - all of which are based in fear and scarcity.'"

Sounds more like fear OF scarcity?

T McCabe wrote:

<quoted text>

The Communion of Saints we have been told will decrease and be persecuted as we near 'End Times'.

But you are not being persecuted, you are being lauded and celebrated in the worldly media. The ones who have taken a stand against the perversions that TEC affirms and celebrates are the ones being slammed.

They are the ones being sued, even personally sued.

Your denomination is in such rapid decline because it is just like the world outside. There is no difference so why should people attend.

Yeah. Those darn "cultural elites" elected non-white to the episcopy!

Whatever next?!?!?

Women?!?!

RevKen wrote:

<quoted text>
Oh Ye of little faith!
What is happening is exactly what is supposed to happen.
Those who cannot move with the Teachings of Christ Jesus will eventually find their supposedly safe hypocritical and bigoted views to be relegated to the dustbin.
Let these who cannot accept the ministry of Christ Jesus split off, mutiny, haul away and revolt. Let them claim the superiority of being self-proclaimed "orthodox." Let them whine about how high and mighty The Episcopal Church USED to be.
Rev. Ken
Statistics mean absolutely nothing, unless you try to structure your system of beliefs in order to increase the number of pew warmers.
Rev. Ken

If they ever actually printed the House of Bishop meeting summaries or the Executive Council Summaries in this Forum they would know that these issues have been addressed since the last convention.

Golly gee, it was the last General Convention that ordered them to investigate and recommend changes by opening the discussion to all orders of the church. Shocking isn't it.

This is not really a TEC Forum. It is under the editorship of anti-TEC editors and pagan book worshipers attempting to convert us to their heathen beliefs.

T McCabe wrote:

<quoted text>
If they ever actually printed the House of Bishop meeting summaries or the Executive Council Summaries in this Forum they would know that these issues have been addressed since the last convention.
Golly gee, it was the last General Convention that ordered them to investigate and recommend changes by opening the discussion to all orders of the church. Shocking isn't it.
This is not really a TEC Forum. It is under the editorship of anti-TEC editors and pagan book worshipers attempting to convert us to their heathen beliefs.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fundamentalist%E...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Presuppositional...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_Recons...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dominionism

I hope these clarify the opposition a bit.

T McCabe wrote:

<quoted text>
.
This is not really a TEC Forum. It is under the editorship of anti-TEC editors and pagan book worshipers attempting to convert us to their heathen beliefs.

Hear that Sel? McCabe thinks you are an anti-TEC editor and pagan book worshipper.

George wrote:

<quoted text>
Hear that Sel? McCabe thinks you are an anti-TEC editor and pagan book worshipper.

Does that make you fell better about yourself little fellow?

LOL......

George wrote:

<quoted text>
Hey SFB - the leaders referenced in the article are people like Stacy Sauls and Bonnie Anderson and the Executive Council. THEY are concerned even if you are not.

What's it to you, George?

You wrote, above, that you didn't care. In fact, you said you are delighted with what you believe to be the decline of TEC. You look forward to it.

It is easy to misinterpret or misconstrue the implications of statistics. It is also easy to manipulate statistical facts in order to paint a picture to your liking or to use them to bolster an argument of your choosing.

When Church leadership is alarmed by statistical evidence showing a decline in membership, I share their concern.

But, some of this has to do with a changing culture. Some has to do with changing the level of access to spiritual guidance, which access is improving minute by minute as internet-based information and communication continues to expand.

Some has to do with the revolt and mutiny of the "orthodox" Anglican-styled former Episcopalians who do not appreciate the Church leadership turning toward the original and actual Teachings of Christ Jesus.

Some has to do with ordination of women. Some with allowing gays among us to come out and be blessed in their union with their significant other. Some is just the decline of the BabyBoomer generation.

What is actually important in all of this?

The decline of a statistical number in membership?

Or the intensification of actual and demonstrated faith, commitment and discipleship in Christ Jesus?

If that demonstration of Faith becomes evident in our Gay membership or in our continued ordination of women or in the acceptance of ministry to poor, sick and oppressed people, do you think that the Lord Jesus is going to complain that our "numbers" seem to be taking a temporary dip?

You are a naysayer, George. It pleases you to cast doubts, cast aspersions, tout negative and darkening "facts" and to prophesy doom and gloom and to chuckle and cluck at what you believe to be an inevitable and deserved decline.

You know what I say, George?

I say "nuts."

Rev. Ken