Oklahoma "personhood" bill fails in Legislature

zef wrote:

<quoted text>A disease caused from providing humans in the womb with alchohol. Protecting humans in the womb from such abuse will prevent the occurrence of such diseases.

As for protecting a fetus from the woman is not possible. However upon birth. The alcohol poisoning, much like crack addiction, can cost the the now mother custody of her child.

DERRRR!!!

You are a delusional little fool.

Kathwynn wrote:

<quoted text>
The 14th, 5th and the 9th Amendments pretty much sums it up. That yes the Constitution does apply strictly to a person born. Something that has... Again.. been explained to you. Are you really this stupidly crazed that you think that any one here does remember that fact.

Citizenship applies strictly to where a person is born. The constitution applies to all persons. The 5th amendment says nothing about birth or being born. The 9th amendment says nothing about birth or being born. The 14th amendment does not grant us citizenship not to born individuals, the 14th amendment grants citizenship according to where individuals are born. All persons regardless of where, or whether or not they are born are protected by the laws of the constitution. Citizenship has nothing to do with what people are, or who is or isn't a person, and the laws of the constitution specifically protect people, and persons regardless of the status of their citizenship.

Rights of U.S. Citizens
•Vote in federal elections
•Serve on a jury
•Bring family members to the United States
•Obtain citizenship for children born abroad
•Travel with a U.S. passport
•Run for federal office
•Become eligible for federal grants and scholarship

Responsibilities of U.S. Citizens
•Support and defend the Constitution
•Serve the country when required
•Participate in the democratic process
•Respect and obey federal, state, and local laws
•Respect the rights, beliefs, and opinions of others
•Participate in your local community

Kathwynn wrote:

<quoted text>
As for protecting a fetus from the woman is not possible. However upon birth. The alcohol poisoning, much like crack addiction, can cost the the now mother custody of her child.
DERRRR!!!
You are a delusional little fool.

Denying the personhood of humans in the womb, and other forms of mindless bigotry against young humans, only increases the likelyhood of fetal alchohol syndrome, and other types of abuse. Humans in the womb can only be protected from women when the life, and personhood of individuals in the womb is acknowledged and respected.

Unfortunately, sycophants are driven by their lust for women, their desire to serve women, and the pleasure they derive from being subservient to women. So, no matter what the intentions of our laws, society can only reflect the injustice, and tyranny of women.

zef wrote:

Unfortunately, sycophants are driven by their lust for women, their desire to serve women, and the pleasure they derive from being subservient to women. So, no matter what the intentions of our laws, society can only reflect the injustice, and tyranny of women.

Which would define ol' Kathwynn there as a mangyna, a man-bitch, a eunuch!

Ratiional Tulsaans wrote:

<quoted text>
I get so sick and tired of your right wing poppycock that it makes me vomit, you trailer trash dirt. i swear, you bring out the rage in me. I have randomly clocked folks because of my disputes with you. Sir, you are not a good person. You are a racist, a black hater, and somebody needs to teach you a lesson. Somebody needs to show you some manners, and give you a sound thrashing.
However, I reject violence, for the most part. It is dangerous and immoral. But I have the proclivity to hit those who are illogically hateful and disrespectful of our President, you dirt vomit castor oil jerk slimeball rat!!!!!!

Well, and you know what you can do about it, boy. Be careful though, I may have to punish you!

zef wrote:

<quoted text>Denying the personhood of humans in the womb, and other forms of mindless bigotry against young humans, only increases the likelyhood of fetal alchohol syndrome, and other types of abuse. Humans in the womb can only be protected from women when the life, and personhood of individuals in the womb is acknowledged and respected.

So? Banning abortion, which is what this bill is pointing towards, isn't going to decrease the number of FAS babies or the incidence of child abuse, imo. You may think differently, but where is the data to back you up?

elise in burque wrote:

<quoted text>So? Banning abortion, which is what this bill is pointing towards, isn't going to decrease the number of FAS babies or the incidence of child abuse, imo. You may think differently, but where is the data to back you up?

The Holocaust was the systematic, bureaucratic, state-sponsored persecution and murder of approximately six million Jews by the Nazi regime and its collaborators. "Holocaust" is a word of Greek origin meaning "sacrifice by fire." The Nazis, who came to power in Germany in January 1933, believed that Germans were "racially superior" and that the Jews, deemed "inferior," were an alien threat to the so-called German racial community.

The Oklahoma Supreme Court on Monday unanimously ruled that a ballot measure to completely prohibit abortion was “clearly unconstitutional.”

The American Civil Liberties Union and the Center for Reproductive Rights filed a lawsuit against the ballot measure, which would have amended the Oklahoma Constitution to grant fertilized eggs and embryos the same constitutional rights as people.

“By their own admission, the proponents of this initiative aim to strip women and families of their established right to decide whether and when to become pregnant and carry a pregnancy to term,” Ryan Kiesel, executive director of the ACLU of Oklahoma, said in March.“This initiative insults Oklahoma women’s intelligence and dignity by denying access to basic health services.”

Legislation similar to the “fetal personhood” ballot measure passed in the Oklahoma Senate in February by a 34-8 vote. However, Oklahoma House Speaker Kris Steele and the State House Republican Caucus decided not to bring the bill to the House floor for a vote.

The pro-life Christian group Personhood USA and its state affiliates have campaigned to place “fetal personhood” initiatives on the November ballot.

The Colorado Supreme Court ruled in March that a proposed “fetal personhood” amendment to the state’s constitution could be placed on the 2012 ballot. In contrast, a Nevada judge ruled in December that the ballot initiative was so vague that backers were not allowed to circulate it among voters.

A similar constitutional amendment was rejected by more than 55 percent of Mississippi voters last year.

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2012/04/30/oklahom...

zef wrote:

<quoted text>
....All persons regardless of where, or whether or not they are born are protected by the laws of the constitution....

A person is not a person unless some fetus has been born,

And if your BULLSH!T statement had ANY validity, some state Supreme Court at some time some where or SCOUTUS over the last 210+ years of US constitutional law would have ruled it so.

zef wrote:

<quoted text>
Citizenship applies strictly to where a person is born. The constitution applies to all persons. The 5th amendment says nothing about birth or being born. The 9th amendment says nothing about birth or being born. The 14th amendment does not grant us citizenship not to born individuals, the 14th amendment grants citizenship according to where individuals are born. All persons regardless of where, or whether or not they are born are protected by the laws of the constitution. Citizenship has nothing to do with what people are, or who is or isn't a person, and the laws of the constitution specifically protect people, and persons regardless of the status of their citizenship.
Rights of U.S. Citizens
•Vote in federal elections
•Serve on a jury
•Bring family members to the United States
•Obtain citizenship for children born abroad
•Travel with a U.S. passport
•Run for federal office
•Become eligible for federal grants and scholarship
Responsibilities of U.S. Citizens
•Support and defend the Constitution
•Serve the country when required
•Participate in the democratic process
•Respect and obey federal, state, and local laws
•Respect the rights, beliefs, and opinions of others
•Participate in your local community

And thanks for proving that you are as stupid as your delusional you fool..

In order to participate as you have so richly pointed out you must be born.. Therefore follow the bouncing ball you little hysterical fool.. In order to be a person and be a citizen you must be born.

A fetus has no rights. can not, by virtue of not being born, engage in any part citizenship.

Only a person can do that. You can call a fetus anything you like. Refer to a fetus as anything you want. The fact remains that a fetus under the Constitution is not a person and is not a citizen of this or any country. Except in delusionalland where you and fools like reside. This has been pointed out to as well.

That you very argument proves that you do not what you are saying.

zef wrote:

<quoted text>Denying the personhood of humans in the womb, and other forms of mindless bigotry against young humans, only increases the likelyhood of fetal alchohol syndrome, and other types of abuse. Humans in the womb can only be protected from women when the life, and personhood of individuals in the womb is acknowledged and respected.

You just keep right being a hysterical little fool, zef. Exercise your right to make a fool of yourself.

PlacitasRoy wrote:

The Oklahoma Supreme Court on Monday unanimously ruled that a ballot measure to completely prohibit abortion was “clearly unconstitutional.”
The American Civil Liberties Union and the Center for Reproductive Rights filed a lawsuit against the ballot measure, which would have amended the Oklahoma Constitution to grant fertilized eggs and embryos the same constitutional rights as people.
“By their own admission, the proponents of this initiative aim to strip women and families of their established right to decide whether and when to become pregnant and carry a pregnancy to term,” Ryan Kiesel, executive director of the ACLU of Oklahoma, said in March.“This initiative insults Oklahoma women’s intelligence and dignity by denying access to basic health services.”
Legislation similar to the “fetal personhood” ballot measure passed in the Oklahoma Senate in February by a 34-8 vote. However, Oklahoma House Speaker Kris Steele and the State House Republican Caucus decided not to bring the bill to the House floor for a vote.
The pro-life Christian group Personhood USA and its state affiliates have campaigned to place “fetal personhood” initiatives on the November ballot.
The Colorado Supreme Court ruled in March that a proposed “fetal personhood” amendment to the state’s constitution could be placed on the 2012 ballot. In contrast, a Nevada judge ruled in December that the ballot initiative was so vague that backers were not allowed to circulate it among voters.
A similar constitutional amendment was rejected by more than 55 percent of Mississippi voters last year.
http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2012/04/30/oklahom...

Yes it is a win for the good guys with out a doubt.. I am sure zef will get hysterical here in a while..

zef wrote:

<quoted text>
The Holocaust was the systematic, bureaucratic, state-sponsored persecution and murder of approximately six million Jews by the Nazi regime and its collaborators. "Holocaust" is a word of Greek origin meaning "sacrifice by fire." The Nazis, who came to power in Germany in January 1933, believed that Germans were "racially superior" and that the Jews, deemed "inferior," were an alien threat to the so-called German racial community.

A little FYI zef.. You are talking about people. Not a fetus.

The halocaust has nothing to do with a woman making a medical decision. You do nothing , but dishonor those that died at the hands of murderous scum when you try to compare the two.

I know you do not care as long as you can be a fool to prove that you really do not know what you are talking about.

zef wrote:

<quoted text>Nothing in the constitution says anything about laws applying to the born. Our laws are not based on your mindless bigotry.

Let's try it this way. can someone show me in the Constitution where the 14th amendment applies only to the born?

http://www.law.cornell.edu/constitution/amend...
14th Amendment
Amendment XIV
Section 1.
"All persons born....

Those are the first words of the 14th Amendment.. Any other questions.. Oh and here from the most conservative on the Supreme Court. Supreme Justice Scalia. And yes He would like Roe V Wade to go away, but even he acknowledges that it will not happen.

Justice Scalia On The Record
By CBSNews

http://www.cbsnews.com/2100-18560_162-4040290...

"What is the connection between your Catholicism, your Jesuit education, and your judicial philosophy?" Stahl asks.

"It has nothing to do with how I decide cases," Scalia replies. "My job is to interpret the Constitution accurately. And indeed, there are anti-abortion people who think that the constitution requires a state to prohibit abortion. They say that the Equal Protection Clause requires that you treat a helpless human being that's still in the womb the way you treat other human beings. I think that's wrong. I think when the Constitution says that persons are entitled to equal protection of the laws, I think it clearly means walking-around persons,"

An Okie wrote a good article on why their bill went failed: "that two factors contributed to the bill’s defeat: 1) Deep disagreement, between the personhood movement and more [sane] mainstream pro-life Oklahoma voters and legislators, on the advisability of amendments to the bill; and 2) The development of ill will between the [batcrap crazy] personhood lobby and the Republican representatives. Full story at: http://ht.ly/aD3st

This bill might have gotten further if they would have left birth control out of it. Birth control is and should be the rights of any female no matter what. It should be the rights for men also. There are times abortions are necessary like if it in dangers the life of the female, rape victims, and incense victims for sure. But under no circumstance should the government be in anyones business about birth control. But I donot think abortions should be used as a means for birth control and absolutely in these case the government or health insurance should not be made to pay for abortions if it is being done for birth control reasons.

Kathwynn wrote:

http://www.law.cornell.edu/con stitution/amendmentxiv
14th Amendment
Amendment XIV
Section 1.
"All persons born....
Those are the first words of the 14th Amendment.. Any other questions.. Oh and here from the most conservative on the Supreme Court. Supreme Justice Scalia. And yes He would like Roe V Wade to go away, but even he acknowledges that it will not happen.
Justice Scalia On The Record
By CBSNews
http://www.cbsnews.com/2100-18560_162-4040290...
"What is the connection between your Catholicism, your Jesuit education, and your judicial philosophy?" Stahl asks.
"It has nothing to do with how I decide cases," Scalia replies. "My job is to interpret the Constitution accurately. And indeed, there are anti-abortion people who think that the constitution requires a state to prohibit abortion. They say that the Equal Protection Clause requires that you treat a helpless human being that's still in the womb the way you treat other human beings. I think that's wrong. I think when the Constitution says that persons are entitled to equal protection of the laws, I think it clearly means walking-around persons,"

Pompous bigots twisting the constitution to suit their nihilistic, hangmongering agendas is a treasonist act of hatred, and bigoty.
All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside.
Citizenship is not a right nor does citizenship grant rights. US citizens have the same human rights as every other human regardless of where, or whether or not they are born.
The Nuremberg Trials were a series of military tribunals, held by the victorious Allied forces of World War II, most notable for the prosecution of prominent members of the political, military, and economic leadership of the defeated Nazi Germany.
The indictments were for:
1.Participation in a common plan or conspiracy for the accomplishment of a crime against peace
2.Planning, initiating and waging wars of aggression and other crimes against peace
3.War crimes
4.Crimes against humanity
Judges
Major General Iona Nikitchenko (Soviet main)
Lieutenant Colonel Alexander Volchkov (Soviet alternate)
Colonel Sir Geoffrey Lawrence (British main),
President of the Tribunal
Sir Norman Birkett (British alternate)
Francis Biddle (American main)
John J. Parker (American alternate)
Professor Henri Donnedieu de Vabres (French main)
Robert Falco (French alternate)
Chief prosecutors
Attorney General Sir Hartley Shawcross (United Kingdom)
Supreme Court Justice Robert H. Jackson (United States)
Lieutenant-General Roman Andreyevich Rudenko (Soviet Union)
François de Menthon (France)
Since this trial concerned victims of human rights violations who were not US citizens. The US government obviously has an obligation to protect the rights of non citizens. Being born does not determine citizenship, rather where an individual is born determines citizenship. And being a US citizen obviously has nothing to do with who does, or does not have rights.

"...the Equal Protection Clause requires that you treat a helpless human being that's still in the womb the way you treat other human beings."
Justice Scalia On The Record