GOP state legislators' zeal for guns could wound Romney: Brent Larkin

May 12, 2012 | Posted by: roboblogger | Full story: Cleveland.com

Gun buybacks in Cleveland produce a haul like this, so there doesn't seem to be a gun shortage in Ohio.

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21 - 40 of 41 Comments Last updated May 18, 2012
xxxrayted

Beachwood, OH

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#22
May 13, 2012
 
Marauder wrote:
<quoted text>
What remains to be seen...? That's the way the Florida law is written.
Right now, it seems the big question is who was the aggressor that caused Zimmerman to use his firearm? Some on the left say Zimmerman was the aggressor since he started to follow Martin, and Martin had the right to defend himself against Zimmerman. I don't believe that, but that's the counter argument.

I say that Zimmerman quit following Martin at the dispatchers request, and Martin came back at Zimmerman to settle the score. But again, Zimmerman did run after Martin in the first place.

That's the debate right now. So if it makes it to court, it would be interesting to see what the defense and prosecution have to support their case. According to Zimmerman's lawyer, there is a lot of facts that the media conveniently left out.
xxxrayted

Beachwood, OH

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#23
May 13, 2012
 

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xxxrayted wrote:
<quoted text>
I think that before licenses are issued, at the very least, you should be able to handle a firearm. Not so much for accuracy, but to demonstrate that you have the ability to control your gun and use general safety procedures while using one.
I don't know how free speech ever killed anybody, but even til this day, innocent people get killed because the owner of the firearm didn't use common sense and safety.
Two very strange things here: for one, I'm quoting myself. LOL! Secondly, hours after I made this reply, this came in over our local news station site:

Babysitter's son arrested for shooting toddler, mom

Posted: May 13, 2012 2:35 PM EDT
Updated: May 13, 2012 8:46 PM ED

CLEVELAND, OH (WOIO)-
A 2-year-old boy remains hospitalized Sunday evening after he was shot by his babysitter's teenage son. The babysitter was also wounded.

Cleveland Police tell 19 Action News that they were called out to 1059 E.76th Street for a toddler shot around 2 p.m. Officers arrived and found 2-year-old Di'rico Wilson with a gunshot wound to the head and his babysitter, Annett Jackson, 48, with a gunshot wound to the hand.

Wilson and Jackson were transported to University Hospital for treatment. Wilson was taken into surgery and was last listed in critical condition. Jackson was treated and released.

Cleveland Police say the shooting happened while Annett Jackson was babysitting three kids at her home with her 19-year-old son, Ernest Crawford. Jackson and the three children were in the living room while Crawford was in another room handling a gun. The weapon discharged and fired a single shot through the wall wounding his mother and little Wilson.

Crawford was arrested for felonious assault and is being held at Cleveland's Central Prison Unit awaiting charges.

http://www.woio.com/story/18368221/babysitter...

These kinds of stories happen all the time in Cleveland. But I use this current unfortunate incident to further my point about how important gun safety and handling is when licensing an applicant with a CCW. I don't believe this shooter was a CCW holder, but if he applied and had no training, the very same thing would have happened because obviously, this joker is ignorant of guns.
Marauder

Anchorage, AK

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#24
May 13, 2012
 

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xxxrayted wrote:
<quoted text>
Right now, it seems the big question is who was the aggressor that caused Zimmerman to use his firearm? Some on the left say Zimmerman was the aggressor since he started to follow Martin, and Martin had the right to defend himself against Zimmerman. I don't believe that, but that's the counter argument.
I say that Zimmerman quit following Martin at the dispatchers request, and Martin came back at Zimmerman to settle the score. But again, Zimmerman did run after Martin in the first place.
That's the debate right now. So if it makes it to court, it would be interesting to see what the defense and prosecution have to support their case. According to Zimmerman's lawyer, there is a lot of facts that the media conveniently left out.
And all I'm pointing out is that the Florida law covers the affirmative use of self defense by the initial agressor if the initial victim, having defended himself, continues with an assault that places the other person in fear of death or great bodily harm.

"Right now, it seems the big question is who was the aggressor that caused Zimmerman to use his firearm?"

When you read the law you can see that the answer to that question isn't relavent. The question is what threat, if any, was the individual facing that placed him in fear of death or great bodily harm at the time deadly force was used.
xxxrayted

Beachwood, OH

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#25
May 13, 2012
 
Marauder wrote:
<quoted text>
And all I'm pointing out is that the Florida law covers the affirmative use of self defense by the initial agressor if the initial victim, having defended himself, continues with an assault that places the other person in fear of death or great bodily harm.
"Right now, it seems the big question is who was the aggressor that caused Zimmerman to use his firearm?"
When you read the law you can see that the answer to that question isn't relavent. The question is what threat, if any, was the individual facing that placed him in fear of death or great bodily harm at the time deadly force was used.
The use of deadly force while being an aggressor is very vague at that. Here is a quote from your link:

"776.012&#8195;Use of force in defense of person.—A person is justified in using force, except deadly force, against another when and to the extent that the person reasonably believes that such conduct is necessary to defend himself or herself or another against the other’s imminent use of unlawful force."

If it is believed that Martin defended himself against Zimmerman's attack, then what "unlawful" force did he use? If it is somehow proven that Martin was attacked, then any force he used to defend himself was lawful.

Now to prove that Zimmerman used deadly force because Martin did not stop his defensive action soon enough, that would be a very hard sell to a jury or judge since there were only two people there- and one of them is dead.

“Why call 911? 1911 is faster”

Since: Feb 08

Wesley Chapel, FL

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#26
May 14, 2012
 
xxxrayted wrote:
<quoted text>
I think that before licenses are issued, at the very least, you should be able to handle a firearm. Not so much for accuracy, but to demonstrate that you have the ability to control your gun and use general safety procedures while using one.
I don't know how free speech ever killed anybody, but even til this day, innocent people get killed because the owner of the firearm didn't use common sense and safety.
Going to the Travon Martin case, I questioned what kind of training Florida licensees need to obtain a permit. I believe that Zimmerman did have the right to shoot Martin, but on the other hand, he should not have expressed any aggression towards another person while armed. I think that's why he's in a bit of trouble today.
I don't know what the laws are in the state of Florida, but here in Ohio, if you start, participate, or escalate a heated situation, you are forbidden to use your firearm.
Look closely at history. Free speech has killed people. It can even incite a riot. It can be used to threaten. It can be used to libel someone. There are many forms of speech which are harmful. We also have laws to punish those who use speech inappropriately. Back to the statement, do you also believe training should be required prior to our ability to exercise our first amendment rights?

Florida does require a class, it’s mostly a joke. As part of our application for a carry permit the entire law is published in the booklet which contains the application. There’s no excuse not to know the law.

We may not use a firearm here in the furtherance of an argument. However, that doesn’t mean if the other party produces a weapon you’re not permitted to use deadly force. Legally you’ll face a challenge in that case.

Why would you require training to exercise a constitutionally protected right?

“Why call 911? 1911 is faster”

Since: Feb 08

Wesley Chapel, FL

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#27
May 14, 2012
 
People In Glass Houses wrote:
Some are just not mentally equipped to handle guns and should not have or allow access to guns by others.
Father of Christopher Bizilj, who Died Firing an Uzi, Was ...
abcnews.go.com/US/father-christopher-bizilj-d... ...
Jan 7, 2011 ... The boy was unable to handle the gun's recoil and it shot him in the face, killing him.... Mother Kills Self, Son at Gun Range Watch Video ...
Court Video of Boy Who Shot Himself With Uzi - ABC News
abcnews.go.com/US/jurors-uzi-trial-brace-grap...
Jan 6, 2011 ... A father closed his eyes as video he filmed of his 8-year-old Christopher ... Uzi submachine gun that recoiled and shot the boy in the head, killing him.... pounds -- stepped up to the firing range to shoot an Uzi as his father and ...
Father Lets His 8-Year-Old Boy Fire An Uzi machine Gun and It ...
www.youtube.com/watch...
3 min - Jan 7, 2011 - Uploaded by rucrazy730
8 year old boy dies after father lets him shoot a uzi submarine gun and it ... knowingly and ...
15-year-old boy shot at Davis County rifle range | ksl.com
www.ksl.com/...
Aug 27, 2011
There were apparently a number of witnesses at the range at the time. The boy was shooting ...
Search for videos of Child killed at shooting range with father
This incident is a matter of a poor choice, not mentally ill-equipped to handle firearms. The child was under supervision as required by law.

The interesting part of this is the organizer of the event was charged even though a worker at the event twice told the dad a less powerful weapon should be selected. The dad insisted so the child was allowed to fire the weapon. The dad wasn’t charged.

Under no circumstance should an eight year old be given a fully automatic weapon in full auto mode. At least not without an adult to help steady the weapon.

“Why call 911? 1911 is faster”

Since: Feb 08

Wesley Chapel, FL

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#28
May 14, 2012
 
xxxrayted wrote:
<quoted text>
That remains to be seen. But in my opinion, if you are carrying a firearm, it's just a good idea to not pick fights. Over here, if somebody drives by you and gives you the finger, it's best to ignore them.
I really hope that the charges are thrown out of court and they just let Zimmerman go. Based on the evidence that's out there, it seems as though Martin went back to get even with Zimmerman for following him. That being the case, Zimmerman did have the right to protect himself as far as I can tell.
It’s not a good idea to go around picking fights anyway.

On the Zimmerman case it’s difficult to reach a conclusion. I’m only 80% convinced he acted within the confines of the law.

“Why call 911? 1911 is faster”

Since: Feb 08

Wesley Chapel, FL

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#29
May 14, 2012
 
xxxrayted wrote:
<quoted text>
Two very strange things here: for one, I'm quoting myself. LOL! Secondly, hours after I made this reply, this came in over our local news station site:
Babysitter's son arrested for shooting toddler, mom
Posted: May 13, 2012 2:35 PM EDT
Updated: May 13, 2012 8:46 PM ED
CLEVELAND, OH (WOIO)-
A 2-year-old boy remains hospitalized Sunday evening after he was shot by his babysitter's teenage son. The babysitter was also wounded.
Cleveland Police tell 19 Action News that they were called out to 1059 E.76th Street for a toddler shot around 2 p.m. Officers arrived and found 2-year-old Di'rico Wilson with a gunshot wound to the head and his babysitter, Annett Jackson, 48, with a gunshot wound to the hand.
Wilson and Jackson were transported to University Hospital for treatment. Wilson was taken into surgery and was last listed in critical condition. Jackson was treated and released.
Cleveland Police say the shooting happened while Annett Jackson was babysitting three kids at her home with her 19-year-old son, Ernest Crawford. Jackson and the three children were in the living room while Crawford was in another room handling a gun. The weapon discharged and fired a single shot through the wall wounding his mother and little Wilson.
Crawford was arrested for felonious assault and is being held at Cleveland's Central Prison Unit awaiting charges.
http://www.woio.com/story/18368221/babysitter...
These kinds of stories happen all the time in Cleveland. But I use this current unfortunate incident to further my point about how important gun safety and handling is when licensing an applicant with a CCW. I don't believe this shooter was a CCW holder, but if he applied and had no training, the very same thing would have happened because obviously, this joker is ignorant of guns.
Concealed carry wouldn’t apply to this incident. The firearm was apparently inside the home. Using your logic would you like to expand required education to the ownership of a firearm?

I absolutely support training; I’ve trained dozens of people in the safe handling of firearms. I will provide that service for free to anyone. But, it shouldn’t be a legal requirement.

Sometimes stupid accidents happen. A friend of mine killed himself cleaning an “empty” gun. He was as safe as anyone I know at the range. It was a stupid oversight.

I keep about a half dozen loaded weapons inside my home. Three shotguns, a .45, a .380 and a .357 revolver. If I’m expecting company bringing children I do secure the loaded arms.
xxxrayted

Beachwood, OH

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#30
May 14, 2012
 
eternal cynic wrote:
<quoted text> Why would you require training to exercise a constitutionally protected right?
Because there is no Constitutional right to carry a concealed weapon. At least in my state, anybody can carry a gun provided it's in plain view. That's not to say they can't arrest you for something else like inciting panic, but if you are not a felon, they can't charge you for carrying an open gun.

The story I provided is one of many examples of why people should have training before they are allowed to carry a concealed weapon. This gun went off in the house and the bullet traveled through the wall and hit two people. This could easily have happened to him on his front porch or in the backyard of a friends house where strangers could have gotten killed. The story is proof how people do not know how to handle firearms. And anybody who cannot handle a firearm should not be allowed to carry one in my opinion. It's for my safety and public safety.

“Why call 911? 1911 is faster”

Since: Feb 08

Wesley Chapel, FL

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#31
May 15, 2012
 
xxxrayted wrote:
<quoted text>
Because there is no Constitutional right to carry a concealed weapon. At least in my state, anybody can carry a gun provided it's in plain view. That's not to say they can't arrest you for something else like inciting panic, but if you are not a felon, they can't charge you for carrying an open gun.
The story I provided is one of many examples of why people should have training before they are allowed to carry a concealed weapon. This gun went off in the house and the bullet traveled through the wall and hit two people. This could easily have happened to him on his front porch or in the backyard of a friends house where strangers could have gotten killed. The story is proof how people do not know how to handle firearms. And anybody who cannot handle a firearm should not be allowed to carry one in my opinion. It's for my safety and public safety.
Does the US Constitution state the method of carry or does it simply protect right to bear arms?
xxxrayted

Beachwood, OH

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#32
May 15, 2012
 
eternal cynic wrote:
<quoted text>
Does the US Constitution state the method of carry or does it simply protect right to bear arms?
The right to bear arms. The key word of course being "bear."
Law

Omaha, NE

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#33
May 15, 2012
 
xxxrayted wrote:
<quoted text>
The right to bear arms. The key word of course being "bear."
"Bear" as in to have on one's person.

An excellent breakdown of each word/phrase in the 2nd Amendment.

http://www.guncite.com/gc2ndmea.html

“Show no Quarter !”

Since: Nov 07

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#34
May 15, 2012
 
eternal cynic wrote:
<quoted text>
You’re an idiot. I was lucky enough to return in time to attend a Friends of the NRA meeting Thursday night. In attendance was our county sheriff, about two dozen cops, Will Weatherford incoming speaker of the Florida house, along with more than a dozen other politicians. Add to that five judges. All supporting and donating to the NRA.
Will Weatherford got a standing ovation when he addressed us on the Florida “stand your ground” law. He said something along the lines “as long as I’m speaker of the house we intend to stand our ground on stand your ground”.
Just because you have had bad experiences with cops doesn’t mean all are corrupt. I have many friends who work for various police departments. The majority of cops, at least in Florida and Georgia are very pro second amendment rights.
Could it be you’ve caused your own problems with cops?
I RUN FNRA dinners every year for 13 years and yes ( Especially election years) The Sherrifs ,State Police one of whom is on the committee with me All attend and show their support !politicians,Mayors ,Congressman, & Senators.... Know them all! But!>>>>>> I have on MANY occasion witnessed these same defenders of the Second ...turn a blind eye and a deaf ear when it actually involves them making a commitment to their so called beliefs of right to keep and bear arms ! They will through you under the bus in a New york minute rather than jepordize their pensions , position, or community standing ! Watch who you confide in my friend 1 There are many Quizlings amoung us !

“Constitutionist/ SAF”

Since: Mar 08

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#35
May 16, 2012
 
french louie wrote:
I RUN FNRA dinners every year for 13 years and yes ( Especially election years) The Sherrifs ,State Police one of whom is on the committee with me All attend and show their support !politicians,Mayors ,Congressman, & Senators.... Know them all! But!>>>>>> I have on MANY occasion witnessed these same defenders of the Second ...turn a blind eye and a deaf ear when it actually involves them making a commitment to their so called beliefs of right to keep and bear arms ! They will through you under the bus in a New york minute rather than jepordize their pensions , position, or community standing ! Watch who you confide in my friend 1 There are many Quizlings amoung us !
LOL !! Louie ! Good post.

Police are the largest most antigun group of Americans. And there are hundreds of thousands of police collaborators who will do anything to me the police tell them to do.

Here at the Topix Gun forum, scores of cop-lovers and collaborators come here to pose as gun rights proponents...and eternal cynic and Armed Veteran are two of them.

Again, good post.

“Constitutionist/ SAF”

Since: Mar 08

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#36
May 16, 2012
 

“Why call 911? 1911 is faster”

Since: Feb 08

Wesley Chapel, FL

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#37
May 16, 2012
 
xxxrayted wrote:
<quoted text>
The right to bear arms. The key word of course being "bear."
Yes, when I’m carrying concealed I’m bearing arms. What’s your point?

“Why call 911? 1911 is faster”

Since: Feb 08

Wesley Chapel, FL

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#38
May 16, 2012
 

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Tory II wrote:
<quoted text>
LOL !! Louie ! Good post.
Police are the largest most antigun group of Americans. And there are hundreds of thousands of police collaborators who will do anything to me the police tell them to do.
Here at the Topix Gun forum, scores of cop-lovers and collaborators come here to pose as gun rights proponents...and eternal cynic and Armed Veteran are two of them.
Again, good post.
Says the paranoid little loon. Anyone who believes every cop in America is out to get them has a serious mental problem.

“Show no Quarter !”

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#39
May 17, 2012
 
Tory II wrote:
http://www.washingtontimes.com /blog/guns/2012/may/14/miller- injured-vets-guns-stolen-dc/
From the article :“The mistake he made was agreeing to a search of his vehicle,” the attorney explained in an interview.“If the police ask for consent to search, the answer is ‘no.’ If they ask,‘why not?’ The answer is,‘no.’”.In addition the reason they still haven't returned his firearms is because they probably no longer have them! They were either destroyed or pirated by someone in the department. BEEN THERE, KNOW THAT !

“Constitutionist/ SAF”

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#40
May 17, 2012
 
french louie wrote:
<quoted text>From the article :“The mistake he made was agreeing to a search of his vehicle,” the attorney explained in an interview.“If the police ask for consent to search, the answer is ‘no.’ If they ask,‘why not?’ The answer is,‘no.’”.In addition the reason they still haven't returned his firearms is because they probably no longer have them! They were either destroyed or pirated by someone in the department. BEEN THERE, KNOW THAT !
Did the rank and file police search and seize the guns or was the search and seizure performed by the police chief ?

Who asked for permission to search the car ? Rank and File or police chief ?

“Show no Quarter !”

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#41
May 17, 2012
 

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Tory II wrote:
<quoted text>Did the rank and file police search and seize the guns or was the search and seizure performed by the police chief ?
Who asked for permission to search the car ? Rank and File or police chief ?
In my case....Rank and File .

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