"Joe Legal" and "Jose Illegal".

You have two families: "Joe Legal" and "Jose Illegal". Both families
have two parents, two children, and live in California .

Joe Legal works in construction, has a Social Security Number and makes $25.00 per hour with taxes deducted.

Jose Illegal also works in construction, has NO Social Security Number,
and gets paid $15.00 cash "under the table".

Ready? Now pay attention...

Joe Legal:$25.00 per hour x 40 hours =$1000.00 per week, or $52,000.00 per year. Now take 30% away for state and federal tax; Joe Legal now has $31,231.00.

Jose Illegal:$15.00 per hour x 40 hours =$600.00 per week, or
$31,200.00 per year. Jose Illegal pays no taxes. Jose Illegal now has
$31,200.00..

Joe Legal pays medical and dental insurance with limited coverage for
his family at $600.00 per month, or $7,200.00 per year. Joe Legal now
has $24,031.00.

Jose Illegal has full medical and dental coverage through the state and
local clinics at a cost of $0.00 per year. Jose Illegal still has
$31,200.00.

Joe Legal makes too much money and is not eligible for food stamps or
welfare. Joe Legal pays $500.00 per month for food, or $6,000.00 per
year. Joe Legal now has $18,031.00.

Jose Illegal has no documented income and is eligible for food stamps
and welfare. Jose Illegal still has $31,200.00.

Joe Legal pays rent of $1,200.00 per month, or $14,400.00 per year.. Joe Legal now has $9,631.00.

Jose Illegal receives a $500.00 per month federal rent subsidy. Jose
Illegal pays out that $500.00 per month, or $6,000.00 per year. Jose
Illegal still has $ 31,200.00.

Joe Legal pays $200.00 per month, or $2,400.00 for insurance.. Joe Legal now has $7,231.00.

Jose Illegal says, "We don't need no stinkin' insurance!" and still has
$31,200.00.

Joe Legal has to make his $7,231.00 stretch to pay utilities, gasoline,
etc.

Jose Illegal has to make his $31,200.00 stretch to pay utilities,
gasoline, and what he sends out of the country every month.

Joe Legal now works overtime on Saturdays or gets a part time job after
work.

Jose Illegal has nights and weekends off to enjoy with his family.

Joe Legal's and Jose Illegal's children both attend the same school. Joe
Legal pays for his children's lunches while Jose Illegal's children get
a government sponsored lunch. Jose Illegal's children have an after
school ESL program. Joe Legal's children go home.

Joe Legal and Jose Illegal both enjoy the same police and fire services,
but Joe paid for them and Jose did not pay.

Do you get it, now?

If you vote for or support any politician that supports illegal
aliens...

You are part of the problem!

It's way PAST time to take a stand for America and Americans

AMEN !!!!

Deputy276 wrote:

You have two families: "Joe Legal" and "Jose Illegal". Both families
have two parents, two children, and live in California .
Joe Legal works in construction, has a Social Security Number and makes $25.00 per hour with taxes deducted.
Jose Illegal also works in construction, has NO Social Security Number,
and gets paid $15.00 cash "under the table".
Ready? Now pay attention...
Joe Legal:$25.00 per hour x 40 hours =$1000.00 per week, or $52,000.00 per year. Now take 30% away for state and federal tax; Joe Legal now has $31,231.00.
Jose Illegal:$15.00 per hour x 40 hours =$600.00 per week, or
$31,200.00 per year. Jose Illegal pays no taxes. Jose Illegal now has
$31,200.00..
Joe Legal pays medical and dental insurance with limited coverage for
his family at $600.00 per month, or $7,200.00 per year. Joe Legal now
has $24,031.00.
Jose Illegal has full medical and dental coverage through the state and
local clinics at a cost of $0.00 per year. Jose Illegal still has
$31,200.00.
Joe Legal makes too much money and is not eligible for food stamps or
welfare. Joe Legal pays $500.00 per month for food, or $6,000.00 per
year. Joe Legal now has $18,031.00.
Jose Illegal has no documented income and is eligible for food stamps
and welfare. Jose Illegal still has $31,200.00.
Joe Legal pays rent of $1,200.00 per month, or $14,400.00 per year.. Joe Legal now has $9,631.00.
Jose Illegal receives a $500.00 per month federal rent subsidy. Jose
Illegal pays out that $500.00 per month, or $6,000.00 per year. Jose
Illegal still has $ 31,200.00.
Joe Legal pays $200.00 per month, or $2,400.00 for insurance.. Joe Legal now has $7,231.00.
Jose Illegal says, "We don't need no stinkin' insurance!" and still has
$31,200.00.
Joe Legal has to make his $7,231.00 stretch to pay utilities, gasoline,
etc.
Jose Illegal has to make his $31,200.00 stretch to pay utilities,
gasoline, and what he sends out of the country every month.
Joe Legal now works overtime on Saturdays or gets a part time job after
work.
Jose Illegal has nights and weekends off to enjoy with his family.
Joe Legal's and Jose Illegal's children both attend the same school. Joe
Legal pays for his children's lunches while Jose Illegal's children get
a government sponsored lunch. Jose Illegal's children have an after
school ESL program. Joe Legal's children go home.
Joe Legal and Jose Illegal both enjoy the same police and fire services,
but Joe paid for them and Jose did not pay.
Do you get it, now?
If you vote for or support any politician that supports illegal
aliens...
You are part of the problem!
It's way PAST time to take a stand for America and Americans

Very valid point.

Deputy276 wrote:

.....
If you vote for or support any politician that supports illegal
aliens...
You are part of the problem!
It's way PAST time to take a stand for America and Americans

Don't you think one of the biggest problems are the employers who hire the illegals?

We need to create severe penalties for employers who do hire illegals--mandatory jailtime sounds good.

So don't support politicians who don't want to crack down on the employers.

Shasta Songbird wrote:

<quoted text>
Don't you think one of the biggest problems are the employers who hire the illegals?
We need to create severe penalties for employers who do hire illegals--mandatory jailtime sounds good.
So don't support politicians who don't want to crack down on the employers.

Exactly!

Shasta Songbird wrote:

<quoted text>
Don't you think one of the biggest problems are the employers who hire the illegals?
We need to create severe penalties for employers who do hire illegals--mandatory jailtime sounds good.
So don't support politicians who don't want to crack down on the employers.

You want to stop this nonsense? Go after the employer. Until the profit is taken away this problem will not change.

Even with no jobs, they can live off welfare. The whole welfare system needs to be dumped. It's a "stimulus" to NOT work and just live off other people's labors.

So what do you say to the millions natural born Americans who are on welfare, government rental subsities, foodstamps, free school lunches, don't pay taxes because they do not have jobs, have more kids so they can get more money, ect..? Is the problem the "Jose Illegal" who is trying to provide for his family like everyone else, or is it the system that is taken advantage of by both Joe and Jose? Is it right that getting a green card if you are coming to America from England takes about half the time as if you are trying to get one from Mexico? They dont even call them green cards if you are from England, they are immigration work visas, exactly the same card, even the color, just different names.

There is a huge difference you failed to point out between Joe and Jose. When Joe finally hits rock bottom, all the while blaming Jose and his children, you will find him on the corner of a busy intersection, holding a sign crying about his poor situation, begging for money. When Jose looses this fictious $15.00/hr job you gave him,(whitch I think your wage is highly exagerated to make your math work) you will find himalso on a corner begging....usually in front of a Home Depot. But he won't be begging for a handout like Joe, he will be begging to work, begging to earn his pay, as little as it may be.

Deputy276 wrote:

and gets paid $15.00 cash "under the table".
Ready?

Ok, I agree with much of what you said but then you premise that Jose will be working..if he is under the table couldnt he just be let go "under the table" for any reason or not? the same protections you and I enjoy are not for Jose to enjoy.

So after he is fired he may get another job that doesnt pay as much or pay more. Just saying it might even out more. Also, illeagals are also crammed into one apt. and help each other out. Might this also contribute to your perception that he is swimming in cash?

Sure I agree. Get rid of welfare! If you have an able body GO TO WORK. If you worked all of your life and are in retirement you desearve your benefits.

I dont understand why or how an illegal alien would be able to get free medical, food stamps or any other social benefit.

Notre Dame fan wrote:

So what do you say to the millions natural born Americans who are on welfare, government rental subsities, foodstamps, free school lunches, don't pay taxes because they do not have jobs, have more kids so they can get more money, ect..? Is the problem the "Jose Illegal" who is trying to provide for his family like everyone else, or is it the system that is taken advantage of by both Joe and Jose? Is it right that getting a green card if you are coming to America from England takes about half the time as if you are trying to get one from Mexico? They dont even call them green cards if you are from England, they are immigration work visas, exactly the same card, even the color, just different names.
There is a huge difference you failed to point out between Joe and Jose. When Joe finally hits rock bottom, all the while blaming Jose and his children, you will find him on the corner of a busy intersection, holding a sign crying about his poor situation, begging for money. When Jose looses this fictious $15.00/hr job you gave him,(whitch I think your wage is highly exagerated to make your math work) you will find himalso on a corner begging....usually in front of a Home Depot. But he won't be begging for a handout like Joe, he will be begging to work, begging to earn his pay, as little as it may be.

I say get off your collective lazy welfare asses and GET A JOB. There are PLENTY of jobs out there. The problem is these lazy dirtbags want a job where they do very little and get paid a fortune. If they can't get that job, they say screw it and stay on welfare. And God forbid they work TWO jobs to make a decent income. Although my Dad and Mom both did that when I was a kid. The more they extend welfare benefits to "take care of the unemployed" the more the unemployed take advantage of thpse benefits ad DON'T look for a job. Time to end the Nanny state and sucking on the government teat all the time.
I have NO sympathy for Joe Illegal BECAUSE HE IS ILLEGAL. Let him get in line to immigrate like all out parents did. They aren't "illegal Immigrants" becasue they aren't interested in immigrating AT ALL. WHen Joe Illegal lses his job, which is EXACTLy what happened whrn this economoy went to shit, he LEFT the country. ANd when the economy gets better, he'll swim back across the river and take American jobs away AGAIN. He has NO loyalty to the USA. He's a frigging leech that sucks the life out of the country and then leaves when he can't get any more cash. THis bullshit that the USA OWES people and that they have a RIGHT to a high pay/low work job is a crock. Liberal claptrap is all that is.

Notre Dame fan wrote:

So what do you say to the millions natural born Americans who are on welfare, government rental subsities, foodstamps, free school lunches, don't pay taxes because they do not have jobs, have more kids so they can get more money, ect..? Is the problem the "Jose Illegal" who is trying to provide for his family like everyone else, or is it the system that is taken advantage of by both Joe and Jose? Is it right that getting a green card if you are coming to America from England takes about half the time as if you are trying to get one from Mexico? They dont even call them green cards if you are from England, they are immigration work visas, exactly the same card, even the color, just different names.
There is a huge difference you failed to point out between Joe and Jose. When Joe finally hits rock bottom, all the while blaming Jose and his children, you will find him on the corner of a busy intersection, holding a sign crying about his poor situation, begging for money. When Jose looses this fictious $15.00/hr job you gave him,(whitch I think your wage is highly exagerated to make your math work) you will find himalso on a corner begging....usually in front of a Home Depot. But he won't be begging for a handout like Joe, he will be begging to work, begging to earn his pay, as little as it may be.

And this makes up for the taxes Jose never paid in the past, and will never pay in the future?
I think not!

The issue has a couple of components. 1. the employer, which should be punished for this. 2. the government’s use of the welfare system. The system should not be abolished, but revamped to help the folks that truly need this as an intermediary during hard times.
Stuff happens and I am a firm believer of lay in the bed you make for yourself, but I find myself having a little bit of heart for those who need a lift. I hate going to the store and seeing people paying with food stamps eating very well and still buying their cigarettes and alcohol then driving off in cars nicer than mine while where their expensive clothing.
Fix the system we currently have will correct the issues. Even during hard times with higher unemployment there are jobs out there. Sometimes people have to suck up their pride to survive, but the people who are on the system have not pride to suck up.

Buck up campers someday it will change, but no time soon with our current politics the way it is.

One of the key factors making your point come up with pretty numbers is the ASSumption that EVERY illegal is making use of EVERY welfare program out there, which simply is not the case.

Notre Dame fan wrote:

So what do you say to the millions natural born Americans who are on welfare, government rental subsities, foodstamps, free school lunches, don't pay taxes because they do not have jobs, have more kids so they can get more money, ect..? Is the problem the "Jose Illegal" who is trying to provide for his family like everyone else, or is it the system that is taken advantage of by both Joe and Jose? Is it right that getting a green card if you are coming to America from England takes about half the time as if you are trying to get one from Mexico? They dont even call them green cards if you are from England, they are immigration work visas, exactly the same card, even the color, just different names.
There is a huge difference you failed to point out between Joe and Jose. When Joe finally hits rock bottom, all the while blaming Jose and his children, you will find him on the corner of a busy intersection, holding a sign crying about his poor situation, begging for money. When Jose looses this fictious $15.00/hr job you gave him,(whitch I think your wage is highly exagerated to make your math work) you will find himalso on a corner begging....usually in front of a Home Depot. But he won't be begging for a handout like Joe, he will be begging to work, begging to earn his pay, as little as it may be.

What part of illegal don't you understand? BTW- As a former Catholic, I always root against ND. Why? The Catholic Church's hypocrisy in regards to illegal aliens and illegal immigration.

I know many people who use welfare and who are able citizens of this country. A lot of mothers with kids and alot of so called disable individuals who probably could work if they tried. Did you know you can get disability for asthma? I know a lady who gets it. She can work but doesn't or so she says so. It's not the illegals who bother me. Legality has nothing to do with it. Our taxes aren't even spent on good things whether we put in or not. Our taxes aren't ours to decide where they go. Illegals work and that's all I care about. That I don't see them on the corner begging for food. It's not up to me who get's welfare and it's not up to me who shouldn't. I leave that to the politicians because there are a few people who have citizenship that shouldn't get a dime. I don't worry about no one else but me. If they ain't asking me directly let them ask our government. Besides I'd rather money go to people directly than a 600 toilet.

I don't feel this is our land to control. We should be welcoming and treat our neighbors with respect as long as they don't cause any more crime. I can't stand the criminals. They should be sent back and even our citizens should be sent away.

Previous Resident wrote:

I don't feel this is our land to control. We should be welcoming and treat our neighbors with respect as long as they don't cause any more crime. I can't stand the criminals. They should be sent back and even our citizens should be sent away.

How about our neighbors treating the USA with respect? If they are in country illegally, they ARE criminals. Report and Deport illegal aliens.

I feel if they aren't stealing, doing drugs, anything like that they should be left alone. A paper document to me isn't much. It won't change who they are. Paying taxed isn't the topic because plenty americans have under the table jobs. I hardly know any illegals but know a hell of a lot of citizens with under the table jobs. I haven't met a illegal who didn't show me respect. I have felt more hate from my own country men then I have from some else.

Previous Resident wrote:

I feel if they aren't stealing, doing drugs, anything like that they should be left alone. A paper document to me isn't much. It won't change who they are. Paying taxed isn't the topic because plenty americans have under the table jobs. I hardly know any illegals but know a hell of a lot of citizens with under the table jobs. I haven't met a illegal who didn't show me respect. I have felt more hate from my own country men then I have from some else.

BS. I bet you are a Mexican aren't you....