Missouri child-support law change touches many issues

Responder wrote:

Going into the sciences is a completely different direction early in academic requisites, and it is a heavy load. If she learns to balance her load in a way that doesn't overwhelm her, she might make it. She's going to need you along the way. You sound as though you want to be there for her - prepare for that by preparing yourself and learning who you are and perhaps that will both create insight into why she does not at this point find you approachable, and perhaps learn how to be approachable for her.
I hope it works out for you. I hope she discovers who she is - support her, assist her in paying as much as you can afford to give her - she's been around this long, she is very much aware of what you can afford to help her with. My guess is that college loans are not something she wouldn't consider. She's lived at a certain economic level this long, so she's aware of what you can do.
Prayers and best wishes for you both.

He is a parent who is forced to continue paying child support, when he had no decision in where she attended, etc. This is where is is totally unfair to force the NCP to continue paying child support after high school graduation or the age of 18. He said it himself, she is deceptive in order for him to continue paying. This is not right, child support should cease when your child becomes the age of accountablity in the eyes of the State; which is 18.

Concerned Parent,
Thank you for sharing your heartwrenching story. It is so painful to see a loved one making poor choices and feeling powerless to help them. I really admire the voice of your post. You're attempting to identify solutions. Your words suggest a level of insight beyond what I have typically seen in more than 15 years of working with families. It is so unfortunate that your daughter chose to terminate therapy. It is difficult to work through family issues when all members are not ready or willing to come to the table. I encourage you to continue to find ways to communicate your love and support.
Best wishes, Family Therapist

I believe that every parent wants the best for their child, no matter what age they are. They are still your children, but that does not mean they should not learn that for every action there is a reaction, continuing with child support after the age of 18, or graduation from high school, only reinforces the idea that they can do as they please, party it up, have bad grades, skip classes, and the money is still being paid. As a parent who helps with expenses there is still come control over actions. "If you don't have passing grades, I will not continue to financially help you". Consequences for actions. No different than when they turn 10 if you don't clean your room, you don't get to watch TV, or when they are 16, if you don't keep your grades up, no car. But as the law is now, the NCP continues to be forced to pay no matter what the child does if they attend college. Child support should cease at the age of 18 or graduation from high school. Both parents should help if financially possible if the child decides to attend college. That is what loans, scholarships, grants, etc. are for. Child support should cease at the age of 18 or graduation from high school.

Responder,
You clearly have some strong feelings and personal experiences that impact your world view, as we all do. I have a few observations in response to your reply to Concerned Parent.
-Your response includes a lot of assumptions. In order to get folks on this forum to truly hear your voice, it would be helpful to disengage from attacking them and posting personal assumptions about their life circumstances. "I" statements can be more effective than "you" statements.
-After working with families for many years, I recognize that these issues are very complex and it is dangerous to dole out advice based on one post and without understanding the dynamics of the family. You suggest that Concerned Parent should continue to provide financial support in spite of a pattern of concerning behavior. Who is to say what is just a phase or what is a warning sign that this young adult is heading for a crisis? Is it your belief that parents should enable young adults to "relax" and enjoy the lifestyle they are accustomed to without having any responsibility? We don't know the circumstances. What if the young adult is struggling because they are choosing to skip classes or because they are using drugs? Should the parent provide the means for the young adult to buy drugs or spend the day playing video games instead of going to class? At what point should young adults be responsible for their own choices?
-I have been a child advocate for many years. I continue to work with young adults who enter therapy unprepared for adulthood. Many, but not all, perceive themselves as "entitled" and they expect their parents, significant others, employers, friends, etc. to cater to their every whim and need and they can't figure out why the people in their lives are disengaging from them. In order to be treated with respect, a person must be respectful. In order to be entrusted with responsibility, a person must demonstrate responsibiity.

I encourage parents to consider family therapy as an option to help your family effectively communicate about the complicated issues you are facing. This is an area of agreement I have with Responder.

Family Therapist wrote:

Responder,
You clearly have some strong feelings and personal experiences that impact your world view, as we all do. I have a few observations in response to your reply to Concerned Parent.
-Your response includes a lot of assumptions. In order to get folks on this forum to truly hear your voice, it would be helpful to disengage from attacking them and posting personal assumptions about their life circumstances. "I" statements can be more effective than "you" statements.
-After working with families for many years, I recognize that these issues are very complex and it is dangerous to dole out advice based on one post and without understanding the dynamics of the family. You suggest that Concerned Parent should continue to provide financial support in spite of a pattern of concerning behavior. Who is to say what is just a phase or what is a warning sign that this young adult is heading for a crisis? Is it your belief that parents should enable young adults to "relax" and enjoy the lifestyle they are accustomed to without having any responsibility? We don't know the circumstances. What if the young adult is struggling because they are choosing to skip classes or because they are using drugs? Should the parent provide the means for the young adult to buy drugs or spend the day playing video games instead of going to class? At what point should young adults be responsible for their own choices?
-I have been a child advocate for many years. I continue to work with young adults who enter therapy unprepared for adulthood. Many, but not all, perceive themselves as "entitled" and they expect their parents, significant others, employers, friends, etc. to cater to their every whim and need and they can't figure out why the people in their lives are disengaging from them. In order to be treated with respect, a person must be respectful. In order to be entrusted with responsibility, a person must demonstrate responsibiity.
I encourage parents to consider family therapy as an option to help your family effectively communicate about the complicated issues you are facing. This is an area of agreement I have with Responder.

So we beg to differ on some and agree on the most important one.

BTW Therapist, Concerned dad said nothing about his child's use of drugs. I did mention, too, unless there other issues - about which I am sure he knows well, or has his suspicions about. I don't think anywhere in what I said did I say to support his child's drug use - if that is an issue. I do not advocate drug use.

I stand firm on my position about the griping about child support - there are clearly "other" dynamics involved.

Family Therapist asks:

"You suggest that Concerned Parent should continue to provide financial support in spite of a pattern of concerning behavior. Who is to say what is just a phase or what is a warning sign that this young adult is heading for a crisis? Is it your belief that parents should enable young adults to "relax" and enjoy the lifestyle they are accustomed to without having any responsibility?"

If Fighting Dad - or Concerned Dad thinks his daughter is doing drugs, I don't support doing other than what the laws of child support require him to do. In fact, as I said, most children are keenly in tune to their parents financial well being or lack thereof, and expect no more than what that parent can contribute.

I think if his daughter does not hold up her responsibility, she will no doubt suffer the action of the school, to put her out for acadmic failure. Sad.

As a family therapist of years of experience, you know, of course there are behavioral predictors that lead to some very valid conclusions. So I have to strongly disagree with you on the "who knows," thought.

I think at the point where Dad & daughter, as he dscribes her are, he pay the child support as required of him and not worry about the rest - that is her responsibility academically. If it is other than academic and she's not attending college, he doesn't have to pay anyway, so it's a moot issue.

I am a staunch advocate not of facilitating drug use - if that is the problem, and we do not know that it is - but of unconditional love and endless encouragement. Just my way, Family Therapist.

And thank you for your serivce to our country.

Responder wrote:

In fact, as I said, most children are keenly in tune to their parents financial well being or lack thereof, and expect no more than what that parent can contribute.
I think if his daughter does not hold up her responsibility, she will no doubt suffer the action of the school, to put her out for acadmic failure. I think at the point where Dad & daughter, as he dscribes her are, he pay the child support as required of him and not worry about the rest - that is her responsibility academically.

The statue as it reads now indicates that if they have failing grades, do not take the required hours, then child support ceases. You indicate that he shouldn't worry about the rest yet continue to pay child support. Where does this end? The child can do as they please in college as long as they go, and still receive support. That is teaching them nothing except they "are entitled" to a hand out from both parents NCP & CP. In your first sentence you say the child is in tune with the parents financial well being or lack of...which is it, both should help or the NCP should continue to be forced to pay support for a child that is now a young adult, graduated from high school or 18. As before I believe that most and I say most parents, would help if the child wishes to further their education, but I stand firm in my belief that the laws of Missouri concerning child support are wrong...again what about my child who's social security death benefit ends when she turns 18. Social Security doesn't continue if she goes to college. Child support should cease when the child turns 18 or graduates from high school.

Read it again, "as required of him," if the law says he stops, then what is your problem? I am not suggesting he go beyond the letter of the law - unless, of course, he chooses to. That's up to him, right?

You really might come down off your poor me soap box. It's his child, his ex family, situation, or whatever. Why are you worrying yourself about it at all? Why not ease up on yourself and let him deal with it?

If the law says he can stop, so he he stops. You really do need something to whine about. I don't agree with you that it should stop at high school. Period. It's just my perception of you, but you have some real jealousy issues going on.

Why would you presume to know she is learning nothing? Or that the college is teaching her nothing? She can't stay in college if she fails. It doesn't work that way. So if she's in college, she's not failing, he should pay. If she's kicked out for failing, he can quit paying. Your real complaint seems to be you don't want to pay it. Fine. Do whatever the law entitles you to do, lady. If the kid never speaks to you again my sense is you will be just fine with that. So what are you complaining about?

No offense, if I were you husband I would divorce you just because you make the whole thing so annoying.

Just Mom wrote:

<quoted text>
The statue as it reads now indicates that if they have failing grades, do not take the required hours, then child support ceases. You indicate that he shouldn't worry about the rest yet continue to pay child support. Where does this end? The child can do as they please in college as long as they go, and still receive support. That is teaching them nothing except they "are entitled" to a hand out from both parents NCP & CP. In your first sentence you say the child is in tune with the parents financial well being or lack of...which is it, both should help or the NCP should continue to be forced to pay support for a child that is now a young adult, graduated from high school or 18. As before I believe that most and I say most parents, would help if the child wishes to further their education, but I stand firm in my belief that the laws of Missouri concerning child support are wrong...again what about my child who's social security death benefit ends when she turns 18. Social Security doesn't continue if she goes to college. Child support should cease when the child turns 18 or graduates from high school.

Exactly! BTW - Just because a student fails out and gets dismissed from college doesn't mean the child support stops. A university can dismiss someone, but all the student has to do is then transfer to a community college where they accept any GPA and continue to get support without the passing grades....therefore, no consequences to the bad grades. This system is not working!

Responder wrote:

Read it again, "as required of him," if the law says he stops, then what is your problem? I am not suggesting he go beyond the letter of the law - unless, of course, he chooses to. That's up to him, right?
You really might come down off your poor me soap box. It's his child, his ex family, situation, or whatever. Why are you worrying yourself about it at all? Why not ease up on yourself and let him deal with it?
If the law says he can stop, so he he stops. You really do need something to whine about. I don't agree with you that it should stop at high school. Period. It's just my perception of you, but you have some real jealousy issues going on.
Why would you presume to know she is learning nothing? Or that the college is teaching her nothing? She can't stay in college if she fails. It doesn't work that way. So if she's in college, she's not failing, he should pay. If she's kicked out for failing, he can quit paying. Your real complaint seems to be you don't want to pay it. Fine. Do whatever the law entitles you to do, lady. If the kid never speaks to you again my sense is you will be just fine with that. So what are you complaining about?
No offense, if I were you husband I would divorce you just because you make the whole thing so annoying.

You know, when you first started posting and responding in this forum, you were nice. As the week has gone on, all you have been doing is taking low shots and critizing others in this forum. It really lowers your creditability for any kind of useful information.

Responder wrote:

Read it again, "as required of him," if the law says he stops, then what is your problem? I am not suggesting he go beyond the letter of the law - unless, of course, he chooses to. That's up to him, right?
You really might come down off your poor me soap box. It's his child, his ex family, situation, or whatever. Why are you worrying yourself about it at all? Why not ease up on yourself and let him deal with it?
If the law says he can stop, so he he stops. You really do need something to whine about. I don't agree with you that it should stop at high school. Period. It's just my perception of you, but you have some real jealousy issues going on.
Why would you presume to know she is learning nothing? Or that the college is teaching her nothing? She can't stay in college if she fails. It doesn't work that way. So if she's in college, she's not failing, he should pay. If she's kicked out for failing, he can quit paying. Your real complaint seems to be you don't want to pay it. Fine. Do whatever the law entitles you to do, lady. If the kid never speaks to you again my sense is you will be just fine with that. So what are you complaining about?
No offense, if I were you husband I would divorce you just because you make the whole thing so annoying.

I agree with her 100%. Child support should stop at the age of 18. Then the parents can decide whats best for the child as far as further education. Missouri's double standard of "do as i say, not as i do" should be illegal but you libturds just can't seem to get enough of everyone elses money even if it means spoiling the child. Anybody who has delt with this scam knows full well it aint about the child.

Susan in Texas wrote:

<quoted text>
You know, when you first started posting and responding in this forum, you were nice. As the week has gone on, all you have been doing is taking low shots and critizing others in this forum. It really lowers your creditability for any kind of useful information.

You are so right about that. Responder sounds very bitter...and takes what little information given on this post and ASSumes the rest. I keep reading and can't believe what responder says on this post. I question the sanity here!!!!

Mom of 3 wrote:

<quoted text>
Never did I say anyone or anything was a mistake...ever! Go ahead and twist and manipulate to try and make a point...I am not responding to you anymore...you have no valid points and are only into personally attacking people! I hope and pray that one day you will understand that judging people is not your job and you will be the one judged in the end.

Wow, I've read through these last few pages, you have really devolved into a whiny, bitter woman. Responder has effectively turned you, Susan and FightingDad into a collective group of bumbling idiots, full of anger and worthless insults. You have been outclassed by a superior point of view. FightingDad you should be ashamed of yourself, reading your posts from the last few pages, you are clearly a controlling, angry, power-mad individual who is partially delusional, believing you are the righteous victim. Susan has taken on the role of "cheerleader" because she can't make an original point. Momof3, you need to stop, you are practically begging now, you are invoking the bible, judgment and telling people they are mean. You sound like person without any other options. You have been solidly defeated, just stop before it gets even worse. The three of you have argued yourselves out of a point. Responder, I am very impressed, you have demonstrated intelligence and solid evidence.

Hannibal wrote:

<quoted text>
Wow, I've read through these last few pages, you have really devolved into a whiny, bitter woman. Responder has effectively turned you, Susan and FightingDad into a collective group of bumbling idiots, full of anger and worthless insults. You have been outclassed by a superior point of view. FightingDad you should be ashamed of yourself, reading your posts from the last few pages, you are clearly a controlling, angry, power-mad individual who is partially delusional, believing you are the righteous victim. Susan has taken on the role of "cheerleader" because she can't make an original point. Momof3, you need to stop, you are practically begging now, you are invoking the bible, judgment and telling people they are mean. You sound like person without any other options. You have been solidly defeated, just stop before it gets even worse. The three of you have argued yourselves out of a point. Responder, I am very impressed, you have demonstrated intelligence and solid evidence.

I wouldn't call myself a cheerleader, but I support the people that have the same views as myself. I have made plenty of original points. Obviously, you choose to skip over those. Responder has not made a point at all except for personal attacks against others. That demonstrates intelligence and solid evidence? Evidence for what?

Hannibal wrote:

<quoted text>
Wow, I've read through these last few pages, you have really devolved into a whiny, bitter woman. Responder has effectively turned you, Susan and FightingDad into a collective group of bumbling idiots, full of anger and worthless insults. You have been outclassed by a superior point of view. FightingDad you should be ashamed of yourself, reading your posts from the last few pages, you are clearly a controlling, angry, power-mad individual who is partially delusional, believing you are the righteous victim. Susan has taken on the role of "cheerleader" because she can't make an original point. Momof3, you need to stop, you are practically begging now, you are invoking the bible, judgment and telling people they are mean. You sound like person without any other options. You have been solidly defeated, just stop before it gets even worse. The three of you have argued yourselves out of a point. Responder, I am very impressed, you have demonstrated intelligence and solid evidence.

Responder - How did you get your location to look like your in China...nice try!

Susan in Texas wrote:

<quoted text>
You know, when you first started posting and responding in this forum, you were nice. As the week has gone on, all you have been doing is taking low shots and critizing others in this forum. It really lowers your creditability for any kind of useful information.

Susan,

Your words:

Susan wrote:
I hate Missouri. Everything about the state. I will never buy Budweiser. I will never vacation in the Ozarks. I will never cheer for the Cardinals and I think Branson is a joke. If I have to add 2 hours of drive time, I will in order not to drive thru Missouri. I will not stop at their restaurants, gas stations, souvenir shops or amusement parks. West Virginia is looking better and better.

Hannibal wrote:

<quoted text>
Wow, I've read through these last few pages, you have really devolved into a whiny, bitter woman. Responder has effectively turned you, Susan and FightingDad into a collective group of bumbling idiots, full of anger and worthless insults. You have been outclassed by a superior point of view. FightingDad you should be ashamed of yourself, reading your posts from the last few pages, you are clearly a controlling, angry, power-mad individual who is partially delusional, believing you are the righteous victim. Susan has taken on the role of "cheerleader" because she can't make an original point. Momof3, you need to stop, you are practically begging now, you are invoking the bible, judgment and telling people they are mean. You sound like person without any other options. You have been solidly defeated, just stop before it gets even worse. The three of you have argued yourselves out of a point. Responder, I am very impressed, you have demonstrated intelligence and solid evidence.

Thank you, Hannibal! It is reassuring to hear another voice of reason in the world.

Joe wrote:

<quoted text>
I agree with her 100%. Child support should stop at the age of 18. Then the parents can decide whats best for the child as far as further education. Missouri's double standard of "do as i say, not as i do" should be illegal but you libturds just can't seem to get enough of everyone elses money even if it means spoiling the child. Anybody who has delt with this scam knows full well it aint about the child.

And you probably agree that women who receive child support party endlessly and spend YOUR money on themselves; even though they're feeding, clotheing, transporting, and the multidue of other time consuming things involved in raising YOUR child. I'm sure you pay way too much child support, in excess of all that it takes to care for the needs of a child physically and emotionally.