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Michigan

Dec 16, 2007

Michigan Senate snuffs out smoking ban in bars, restaurants

“The timing of this legislation really couldn't be worse, given Michigan's economic woes”

Efforts to ban smoking in Michigan bars, restaurants and other workplaces were snuffed out in the state Senate Tuesday. via Muskegon Chronicle - MLive.com

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Harry
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#1
Dec 15, 2007
 
Senator Bishop,
How much money is the tobbaco industry giving you to stop the smoking ban in michigan? Since 79 percent of Michigan residents are non-smokers, are you afraid to put the issue on the ballot and let the people decide or are you afraid to lose the money that you are being paid? What is happening to the thought of government by the people? Get off your ash and let the people decide.

“....if it ain't got that jut!”

Joined: Jul 13, 2007
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#2
Dec 15, 2007
 
Harry wrote:
Senator Bishop,
How much money is the tobbaco industry giving you to stop the smoking ban in michigan? Since 79 percent of Michigan residents are non-smokers, are you afraid to put the issue on the ballot and let the people decide or are you afraid to lose the money that you are being paid? What is happening to the thought of government by the people? Get off your ash and let the people decide.
What is happening to the right of the business proprieter to establish his/her own rules regarding smoking? What gives the majority the right to impose their will on the minority? Why is there a need for an outright ban?

Non-smoking Nazis are unwilling to compromise on this issue. The solution is simple. If the business owner wants to allow smoking then they need to section off the area with it's own ventilation system. If they cannot afford one or are unwilling to install one, then they cannot allow smoking in their establishment.
Brian
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#4
Dec 16, 2007
 
The fact is. One cannot go into a building that allows smoking without breathing smoke! I don't care how many smoke eaters they have.
Here is what everyone should do. Go to the most expensive restaurant that allows smoking. Order a drink and also the most expensive items on the menu. When the food arrives say that you've lost your appetite because of the second hand smoke, pay for your drink and leave!

“....if it ain't got that jut!”

Joined: Jul 13, 2007
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#5
Dec 16, 2007
 
Cindy wrote:
Senator Bishop,
What is wrong with our government? I can't believe they did not pass the smoking ban. Are they all smokers? They say we are non-smoking Nazis, all we want is clean air to breath. I don't think that is asking to much. I go inside an establishment to have a nice dinner (my husband and I do like to go out every once in a while) and I have to smell smoke. I got an email the other day that made a lot of sense, it read "having a non-smoking section in a restaurants is like have a no peeing section in a swimming pool". I have respiratory problems and find it very difficult to be around smoke and besides the smell is aweful and I have to take a shower and wash my clothes when I get home. Some restaurants and hotels have gone non-smoking without the help of our government. I believe smokers have rights, but do they have to smoke around the non-smokers. I don't want the second hand smoke and it is already proven that second hand smoke is bad for you. What about the children we bring into these establishments, is it right to expose them to health hazards? The ban would not hurt the resaurants industry, infact it would help the industry. The majority of Michigan residents do not smoke and stay away from establishments that allow smoke because they cannot tolerate it. Come on Michigan government, get with it and help our ecomony and restaurant industry and ban smoking.
I sympathize with your condition, but that does not give you or anyone else the authority to take away the rights of private business owners to set the standards they want in their establishment. Like I said before, if you require businesses that allow smoking to have a separate area with it's own ventilation system then you don't have to smell the smoke or be affected by it. I'm not talking an open air divider, but an actual separate room, walled off from the non-smoking section.

“....if it ain't got that jut!”

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#6
Dec 16, 2007
 
Brian wrote:
The fact is. One cannot go into a building that allows smoking without breathing smoke! I don't care how many smoke eaters they have.
Here is what everyone should do. Go to the most expensive restaurant that allows smoking. Order a drink and also the most expensive items on the menu. When the food arrives say that you've lost your appetite because of the second hand smoke, pay for your drink and leave!
If you don't want to smell smoke, then don't go into a building that allows smoking. It's called freedom of choice. Since the majority of people don't smoke if they stopped going to places that allow smoking it will hit them in their wallet. A separate smoking area, independent of the non-smoking area with it's own partition and ventilation, will ensure that non-smokers don't have to be bothered.
Brian
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#7
Dec 17, 2007
 
"rights of private business owners to set the standards they want in their establishment.

??????????

Huh? You say they should have rights yet you want them to be forced to have separate partitions?

It's quite simple actually. Ban it in Bars and Restaurants that serve food. The smaller Bars can keep their smoking. I wonder how many would survive.

“....if it ain't got that jut!”

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#9
Dec 17, 2007
 
Brian wrote:
"rights of private business owners to set the standards they want in their establishment.
??????????
Huh? You say they should have rights yet you want them to be forced to have separate partitions?
It's quite simple actually. Ban it in Bars and Restaurants that serve food. The smaller Bars can keep their smoking. I wonder how many would survive.
They don't have to have a separate partition if they don't want, but in that case they can't allow smoking. It's called a compromise. If the business owner wants to allow smoking, then to appease the Smoke Nazis it will be in it's own independent area away from non-smokers. Everyone wins versus your way of banning it altogether and not giving business owners a choice.

Smokers are going to smoke. They'll smoke before, during, and after meals. If you force them out of the restaurant then you'll have to walk through a cloud of smoke and dead butts on the ground on your way inside the restaurant. Why not allow them to smoke in their own area where no one is inconvenienced?

You all seem to be advocating mob rule where the minority has no say. People with small children annoy most other restaurant patrons. Should the majority be allowed to ban children from restaurants? It's basically the same thing.
DEE-PHNX AZ
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#10
Dec 17, 2007
 
Ariz passed no smoking in bars rest etc, if you already have outside area away from non smoking you can have the smokers there otherwise no.

some neighborhood bars are doing ok some not.
ayou see sand buckets by the doors where they go out to smoke. for the orig non smoker-it is nice as they dont stink when they leave the place.
but-everyone is entitled to own opionion and i dont want to see businesses go out.
Harry
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#11
Dec 17, 2007
 
New york has a smoking ban in place and they seem to handle it okay and they have weather just like ours if not colder. Take some lessons from New York. Everyone I have talked to says that it is so nice to walk into an establishment that provides the goods and services that they like and not smell any ordors from smoke and not have to wash the odor out of their clothes when they get home. Are you smokers afraid to have it put on the ballot and let the people decide if they want the smoking ban or not. If if fails on the ballot, I would be willing to accept it but at least give government by the people a chance.

“kein Mitleid fur die Mehrheit”

Joined: Dec 11, 2006
Comments: 1967
Allen Park, Michigan
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#12
Dec 17, 2007
 
The line for the no smoking section in restaurants seems to get longer every year. This will pass, eventually.

“....if it ain't got that jut!”

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#13
Dec 17, 2007
 
Harry wrote:
New york has a smoking ban in place and they seem to handle it okay and they have weather just like ours if not colder. Take some lessons from New York. Everyone I have talked to says that it is so nice to walk into an establishment that provides the goods and services that they like and not smell any ordors from smoke and not have to wash the odor out of their clothes when they get home. Are you smokers afraid to have it put on the ballot and let the people decide if they want the smoking ban or not. If if fails on the ballot, I would be willing to accept it but at least give government by the people a chance.
Why do you have to have an outright ban? Why are Smoke Nazis unwilling to compromise? If it's just that you don't want to smell smoke then there are plenty of other ways to do it that don't strip businesses of their rights to decide how they cater to all of their customers.

We've had the smoking ban in Florida for several years. It works in the sense that you don't have to smell smoke in the restaurant while you eat. But the freedom of the proprietor to decide how they want their business to run has been stripped away by the government. It's mob rule rather than a representative republic and the majority has imposed their will on the minority. That is NOT how this country is supposed to work. We have rules in place so that the majority CAN'T impose their will on the minority. "Fine and dandy" you all say until one day when you find yourself in the minority and you get buffaloed by the majority. Popular vote referendums are going to be the downfall of our country's form of government. Why elect representatives if we're just going to put it up for majority rule?

“kein Mitleid fur die Mehrheit”

Joined: Dec 11, 2006
Comments: 1967
Allen Park, Michigan
ISP Location: White Lake, MI
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#14
Dec 18, 2007
 
Common Sense Isnt wrote:
<quoted text>
Why do you have to have an outright ban? Why are Smoke Nazis unwilling to compromise? If it's just that you don't want to smell smoke then there are plenty of other ways to do it that don't strip businesses of their rights to decide how they cater to all of their customers.
We've had the smoking ban in Florida for several years. It works in the sense that you don't have to smell smoke in the restaurant while you eat. But the freedom of the proprietor to decide how they want their business to run has been stripped away by the government. It's mob rule rather than a representative republic and the majority has imposed their will on the minority. That is NOT how this country is supposed to work. We have rules in place so that the majority CAN'T impose their will on the minority. "Fine and dandy" you all say until one day when you find yourself in the minority and you get buffaloed by the majority. Popular vote referendums are going to be the downfall of our country's form of government. Why elect representatives if we're just going to put it up for majority rule?
I don't think this would be an issue if what smokers did didn't affect others. I hate smoke. I wouldn't really care if they allowed bars and casino's to keep smoking. I would like to see restaurants and public places smoke free though. I don't believe that a restaurant would be impacted, the smoke free places around me do very well. I also don't want to see anyone lose their business. I can see how it would impact a bar.
Funny News
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#15
Dec 18, 2007
 
http://funniest-news.blogspot.com/

Funny News from all over check it out!!!!
eshu
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#16
Dec 31, 2007
 
funny how i read a lot of comments about how they are nazis when the ironic part is that hitler hated smokers. his favorite prop. proster was that of a jewish female haveing a conversation smoking and in a bar. here is the issue, although i am a smoker i dont mind going outside to smoke but you make it sound so simple. I live in an area that is quite dangerous. I would have to drive 20-30 minutes minimum to find what most people would call a safe place to eat or drink.

The question is for the people posting, have you ever gone outside to smoke in downtown detroit? your a sitting duck in that ally. if you go in the front, its public intoxication. if i go in the back, im risking a lot. last time i posted that comment, people told me that the bars should build a deck but obviously they've never been outside their town. I agree, I dont want my kids being near smoke, i go outside and sit them in the non smoking section. the only thing I want people to admit is that its not as simple as a ban on smoking.

chances are I wont be on here again, i found it ironically trying to find a restaurant that has a smoking section. but Im not trying to be pushy, I would love to hear both sides, feel free to email me

thanks

eshuorishas@hotmail.com
Parents dead lung cancer
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#17
Jan 1, 2008
 
Ventilate to where? Outside where it is even more annoying to smell smoke because one prefers fresh air? Why is an airborne toxin able to be imposed on me? Why is it a "right" to emit a deathly substance? I can be in the comfort of my own home and smell neighbor's smoke. It is offensive that anyone would put profit before life.
Common Sense Isnt wrote:
<quoted text>
What is happening to the right of the business proprieter to establish his/her own rules regarding smoking? What gives the majority the right to impose their will on the minority? Why is there a need for an outright ban?
Non-smoking Nazis are unwilling to compromise on this issue. The solution is simple. If the business owner wants to allow smoking then they need to section off the area with it's own ventilation system. If they cannot afford one or are unwilling to install one, then they cannot allow smoking in their establishment.

“....if it ain't got that jut!”

Joined: Jul 13, 2007
Comments: 551
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#18
Jan 1, 2008
 
Parents dead lung cancer wrote:
Ventilate to where? Outside where it is even more annoying to smell smoke because one prefers fresh air? Why is an airborne toxin able to be imposed on me? Why is it a "right" to emit a deathly substance? I can be in the comfort of my own home and smell neighbor's smoke. It is offensive that anyone would put profit before life.<quoted text>
Uh, yeah outside. That's where everything vents. Your tail pipe, the power plant, a chimney, a kitchen hood, all vent outside. Your personal comfort does not come before everyone else. Sorry to burst that elitest bubble. By forcing patrons outside of the restaurant where do you think they will smoke? Duh, that's right, outside. Would you rather walk through the front door through a cloud of smoke and dead butts, or would you rather have a separately accessable area that is totally free of smoke? Why should your wants supercede everyone else's?

And don't give me that crap about "being subjected to a deadly substance". It's already been filtered through the smoker's lungs and the ventillation filters before it gets to you, if you happen to be on the roof inhaling off the exhaust of the smoking section's vent. Whether or not you like it, smoking is legal and until it's not then people have the freedom of choice. Or at least they used to until we allowed the majority to strip the freedoms away from the minority.

How about you live your life and let others live their, even if they choose to be unhealthy.
Florida Smoker
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#19
Jan 2, 2008
 
As mentioned above, FL is a nonsmoking state. If an establishment makes x amount of dollars in food sales, it is nonsmoking, if it is a "bar" with limited food sales, the owner decides if he wants it smoking or non. Most owners want the choice. They are the ones paying the lease, the licenses, the insurance, etc., and therefore should be FREE to make their own business decisions.
Who are You
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#20
Jan 4, 2008
 
What's next are you going to tell me that I can't smoke in my own home if a non-smoker is over. Or that I can't smoke in my car with the window down because it might affect your delicate sensiblity. I don't have a problem having to wait to smoke when I am in a restaurant, I personally sit in the non smoking section. It seems that our total freedom as an individual is being taken away. So if you are telling me that I can't smoke in a bar because you don't like the smell of the smoke or that it is unsafe for you then I will tell you to leave, because that is what you are telling me. What gives you the right to decide what others should do. You want cleaner air... Well then I suggest that you don't take a deep breathe when you step outside, because what you are breathing in is so far from being clean, that smoking doesn't even touch. SMOKE ON SMOKERS...

“kein Mitleid fur die Mehrheit”

Joined: Dec 11, 2006
Comments: 1967
Allen Park, Michigan
ISP Location: White Lake, MI
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#21
Jan 4, 2008
 
Who are You wrote:
What's next are you going to tell me that I can't smoke in my own home if a non-smoker is over. Or that I can't smoke in my car with the window down because it might affect your delicate sensiblity. I don't have a problem having to wait to smoke when I am in a restaurant, I personally sit in the non smoking section. It seems that our total freedom as an individual is being taken away. So if you are telling me that I can't smoke in a bar because you don't like the smell of the smoke or that it is unsafe for you then I will tell you to leave, because that is what you are telling me. What gives you the right to decide what others should do. You want cleaner air... Well then I suggest that you don't take a deep breathe when you step outside, because what you are breathing in is so far from being clean, that smoking doesn't even touch. SMOKE ON SMOKERS...
Just playing devils advocate here:

Why should you have the right to affect others to appease your habit? The outside air is nearly always cleaner than cig smoke and the air will almost never make you stink.

Anyway.

I kinda like the Florida law. Keep the restaurants smoke free. Around my area, it would appear that most places are dominated by non smokers anyway as there is always a line to be sat in the non section while there are empty seats in the smoking section. Let the bars keep smoking. Personally I would like to see it banned outdoors in public places, but I don't think that is reasonable or ever going to happen.

I do sympathize with the person that posted about smoke entering their house. My neighbor smokes and I have to close the windows on the side of the house he lives on because the stench fills the house if I have the windows open.
Robert
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#22
Feb 24, 2008
 
Your personal comfort does not come before everyone else. Sorry to burst that elitest bubble.

*** It is not about personal comfort at all - it is an issue of absolute health where it has been demonstrated that second-hand smoke causes lung cancer and other diseases

And don't give me that crap about "being subjected to a deadly substance". It's already been filtered through the smoker's lungs and the ventillation filters before it gets to you

*** That is the absolutely most ignorant statement I have seen in quite a while

Filtered through smoker's lungs? The smoke that smokers don't get in their lungs, the smoke that comes off the cigarettes and into everyone's air, is not filtered and everyone breathes it

Now wonder people smoke; they are as stupid as yoi
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