State lawmaker pushes for same-sex marriage in Michigan

This will happen when h@ll freezes over.

Agreed. It's a waste of time so long as the repubes control half the legislature.

While, I would like to think that their hearts and minds are in the right place, I really believe that they are just trying to buy the gay vote. It is doubtful that it would fare well in a republican senate especially right after a disappointing defeat in Maine.

You guys know your state better than I. I used to be an automotive engineer for Chrysler in the 80s and traveled to Detroit/Highland Park many times. Frankly, when it snows in Highland Park, H@ll actually does freeze over.

Maybe 50 years from now?

I think it's highly unlikely Michigan voters would overturn the amendment that banned ANY form of recognition for same-sex couples any time soon. They'll have to be dragged into equality kicking and screaming.

I don't expect things to change here in what remains of my lifetime. This state is hemorrhaging young adults entering the work force. Any hope for change in Michigan dies with the exodus of its young people.

I don't know if they're sincerely pro marriage equality or not, as opposed to just being pandering as others suggest, but there is little downside in trying for such legislation.

It's not like Boies' lawsuit, for example, which has tremendous downside risk. Or Newsom's rash gambit, which led to more backlash than you can quantify.

In NYC and in Philly, g/l/b/t activists and allies proposed gay rights laws almost for decades, year after year, before getting them passed.

WeTheSheeple wrote:

Agreed. It's a waste of time so long as the repubes control half the legislature.

It's never a waste of time to have the conversation. See, the thing is, our arguments win on logic alone. And over the long term, logic overwhelms emotion.

MICHIGAN???

My jaw dropped on this one.

And I expect it to be similar to California and Maine.

whitefalcon1678 wrote:

MICHIGAN???
My jaw dropped on this one.
And I expect it to be similar to California and Maine.

No, worse.
The whole western side of the state are Dutch Reformed and that ilk. Homophobes to the max.

Some of you people are being sooo negetive. At least they are talking! More than I can say for my state!

nhjeff wrote:

<quoted text>
It's never a waste of time to have the conversation. See, the thing is, our arguments win on logic alone. And over the long term, logic overwhelms emotion.

That may work on some legislators, but if this ever goes to a vote again, the result will be the same or worse. Michigan has lost the majority of the young and college educated- the very people most likely to vote for equality. All that's left are the old geezers who retired from Ford/GM/Chrysler- the very people LEAST likey to ever be swayed no matter how logical the argument.

I wish I were wrong, but the ONLY way gay marriage will be recognized here is when imposed by the SCOTUS.

If we ever get federal recognition of same-sex marriages I'll leave here in a heartbeat. But it's not worth the added expense to move right now just to get a few state benefits in the very expensive northeast.

Imprtnrd wrote:

Some of you people are being sooo negetive. At least they are talking! More than I can say for my state!

Not being negative, just realistic. It takes a 2/3rd vote in both houses of the legislature- one of which is controlled by repubes- just to get it on the ballot for another vote by the people. I worked my butt off before the vote in 2004 only to lose by a 20% margin. Almost every single person I know that voted for equality has left Michigan. Seriously.

WeTheSheeple wrote:

<quoted text>
Not being negative, just realistic. It takes a 2/3rd vote in both houses of the legislature- one of which is controlled by repubes- just to get it on the ballot for another vote by the people. I worked my butt off before the vote in 2004 only to lose by a 20% margin. Almost every single person I know that voted for equality has left Michigan. Seriously.

I understand what you're saying, and I feel for you and the rest of the Michigan citizens. But I still think some conversation is better than silence.

Marriage equality wasn't too popular in New Hampshire (or Vermont) when it was first brought up.

People just aren't seeing the pattern here.

If they force equal marriage into law, then someone will just initiate a ballot measure to knock it down. THEY KNOW THIS, and I believe they are counting on it. The same thing happened in Cali and Maine. They see it as a way to make it look like they are for equality while delivering the message that 'the people' are against it.

I usually laugh at conspiracy theories.... but think about it.

IndyStevie wrote:

People just aren't seeing the pattern here.
If they force equal marriage into law, then someone will just initiate a ballot measure to knock it down. THEY KNOW THIS, and I believe they are counting on it. The same thing happened in Cali and Maine. They see it as a way to make it look like they are for equality while delivering the message that 'the people' are against it.
I usually laugh at conspiracy theories.... but think about it.

But the homophobes are just as relentless opposing any protections for gays and lesbians and their families. Proof? Referendum 71. Hate Crimes. ENDA. They say they think gays and lesbians deserve to be treated with respect and compassion, then they oppose granting even a shred of respect to them.

If there truly were a middle ground where we could agree and not oppose eachother for a short while, I would seek it. But to them, the middle round is for us to acquiesce our inferiority.

Not gonna happen.

IndyStevie wrote:

People just aren't seeing the pattern here.
If they force equal marriage into law, then someone will just initiate a ballot measure to knock it down. THEY KNOW THIS, and I believe they are counting on it. The same thing happened in Cali and Maine. They see it as a way to make it look like they are for equality while delivering the message that 'the people' are against it.
I usually laugh at conspiracy theories.... but think about it.

Luckily there isn't a mechanism in every state for a referendum/initiatve. Most of the remaining states without a constitutional amendment already in place have to go through the legislature to get a vote by the people; the very same legislatures that will theoretically pass an equality bill.

We all knew going in that Maine had their "people's veto", but in New Hampshire & Vermont they failed in their attempt to get a popular vote on the issue. Same for Connecticut where the people failed to pass measure to allow a constitutional convention that would have provided a means to overturn the court ruling there; instead their legislature passed laws to ensure they were in conformance with their supreme court ruling.

Michigan is a goner for another decade (or until the SCOTUS steps in), but New Jersey & New York are on the cusp of passing bills this year.