Energy Dept lends $8B to Ford, Nissan, Tesla to develop fuel-ef...

How can they give American Funds to foreign car companies???

It is like Japan giving Ford money

Wow indeed.

idk...Because they still employ Americans.....

Hey UAW, FK off and get a job where your paid on results and not Bull-sh----T. How about learning to live within your means so you don't keep asking the tax payer for money to keep up with your stupid requests. Hey management, learn to stand up to these stupid leaders of the UAW and take a risk. Tell these lawyers to build the car themselves. Trust me -not going to happen. Stop being such a Pu---y and start training the workers that think straight.

Tom wrote:

Hey UAW, FK off and get a job where your paid on results and not Bull-sh----T. How about learning to live within your means so you don't keep asking the tax payer for money to keep up with your stupid requests. Hey management, learn to stand up to these stupid leaders of the UAW and take a risk. Tell these lawyers to build the car themselves. Trust me -not going to happen. Stop being such a Pu---y and start training the workers that think straight.

Two out of the three companies in this artical are completely non-Union. Ford's Union workforce numbers are at an all time low. Those tax dollars are not going to the UAW as you claim.

I thought the usa gov´t was bankrupted ??? worthless $$$$ only worth 24 cents ??? or is that when the hyper-inflation comes this fall....

and as soon as they get the money move to another country...................

FredUAW wrote:

<quoted text>Two out of the three companies in this artical are completely non-Union. Ford's Union workforce numbers are at an all time low. Those tax dollars are not going to the UAW as you claim.

i think he was more talking about your name then the artical.

Union numbers have been down, i've heard & read the same thing... no tears from me

FredUAW wrote:

<quoted text>Two out of the three companies in this artical are completely non-Union. Ford's Union workforce numbers are at an all time low. Those tax dollars are not going to the UAW as you claim.

I'm so glad you brought to our attention that all those tax paying dollars are not going to the union. Then why are the workers supporting the union leaders that are in charge of their contracts. It just goes to show you how the union workers are being fooled.

Tom wrote:

<quoted text>I'm so glad you brought to our attention that all those tax paying dollars are not going to the union. Then why are the workers supporting the union leaders that are in charge of their contracts. It just goes to show you how the union workers are being fooled.

I'm not sure that I follow you. I was pointing out that money was going to companies that aren't in the least bit organized with Union workers. Many have claimed that "the Union" has received bailout dollars. This is why I posted this information to disprove such claims.

The unions themselves have not received bailout dollars, but the bailout dollars allowed them to keep their jobs. Same difference. What America is trying to say is bailout money should not be the reason for their existence of their job. I agree that employeement is of the utmost importance, but it can't continue without positive results. The best way for you to help the UAW and American jobs is to support their results.

tom wrote:

The unions themselves have not received bailout dollars, but the bailout dollars allowed them to keep their jobs. Same difference. What America is trying to say is bailout money should not be the reason for their existence of their job. I agree that employeement is of the utmost importance, but it can't continue without positive results. The best way for you to help the UAW and American jobs is to support their results.

I hope that you apply this rule across the board. Because each and every one of the southern "transplants" received ten's if not hundreds of millions of American tax dollars in abatements and incentives. At least the Big-3 are American owned and operated companies, that used American tax dollars to retain American jobs.

"What America is trying to say is bailout money should not be the reason for their existence of their job."

Be clear about this. No transplant would be here on American soil without Federal funding with came via tax dollars. Bailout, abatement, whatever verbiage you wish to use it all come down to American tax dollars being spent.

The life blood of transplants was federal tax dollars, just as its the life blood of GM and Chrysler right now. So I ask, where is the outrage for the spending of your tax dollars to prop up foreign auto makers?

tom wrote:

The unions themselves have not received bailout dollars, but the bailout dollars allowed them to keep their jobs. Same difference. What America is trying to say is bailout money should not be the reason for their existence of their job. I agree that employeement is of the utmost importance, but it can't continue without positive results. The best way for you to help the UAW and American jobs is to support their results.

I see that your from Sugar Land, Tx. Here's an example of what it took to get a Toyota plant in San Antonio.

Closing the Texas Deal

The TMC announcement in 2002 that the company was seeking a site for a major manufacturing plant in the southern auto plant corridor set off a round of competition in the region that Texas ultimately won. The initial incentive package offered to Toyota by city, county, and state governments surpassed $227 million.2

The Texas deal included the following:

The City of San Antonio paid for the purchase and preparation of the 2,600 acre TMMTX site; waived the fees for the extension of water, sewer, electricity, and natural gas services to the plant; and agreed to sell electricity to the corporation for one-third of the price paid by residential customers. The city also agreed to establish a 3-mile buffer zone around the plant and "to exercise its best efforts" to annex the zone in order to protect the interests of TMMTX. The municipality also contributed several million dollars to construct a training center for TMMTX workers.
The Southwest School District granted TMMTX a $45 million school tax abatement.
Bexar County granted TMMTX a renewable, 10-year tax abatement worth $22 million and approved similar tax abatements to 15 TMMTX suppliers that totaled an additional $6.5 million.
The state of Texas provided tens of millions of dollars of funding for road and rail infrastructure development to serve the plant, and millions of dollars to TMC and Alamo Community College to train workers for TMMTX.
The Federal Government provided grants to the City of San Antonio, Alamo Community College, Bexar County, and the state of Texas to train TMMTX workers and provide transportation to and from work for them.

http://monthlyreview.org/mrzine/vogel200808.h...

http://washingtonindependent.com/22236/cars

Trust me Fred I do want to support America, even if it means not always getting the lowest deal, but I can't support gross mis-conduct . Meaning people having un-real expections.Com e on, you got to agree the UAW has not exactly been thinking about us Americans. Human nature dictates for them to think mostly of themselves even if it meet not being competitive.Now what is happening is the system wants to repair itself, perfectly healthy, but not much fun.You will do just fine and I hope you get over your dooms day feelings.

FredUAW wrote:

<quoted text>I hope that you apply this rule across the board. Because each and every one of the southern "transplants" received ten's if not hundreds of millions of American tax dollars in abatements and incentives. At least the Big-3 are American owned and operated companies, that used American tax dollars to retain American jobs.
"What America is trying to say is bailout money should not be the reason for their existence of their job."
Be clear about this. No transplant would be here on American soil without Federal funding with came via tax dollars. Bailout, abatement, whatever verbiage you wish to use it all come down to American tax dollars being spent.
The life blood of transplants was federal tax dollars, just as its the life blood of GM and Chrysler right now. So I ask, where is the outrage for the spending of your tax dollars to prop up foreign auto makers?

I to feel that our goverment has not done the best job of leveling the playing field. Money spent without good results is money spent for the wrong reasons,know matter who the owner is. To try and justify one wrong with another wrong is wrong. So your theory still does not stand. Your findings only prove how money spent with bad results is not a winning solution. Nothing new,American has been there and done that.If the goverment spends our tax dollars on winning good results more power to them.In most cases it's not true ,but win goverment works we win big.

Tom wrote:

<quoted text>I to feel that our goverment has not done the best job of leveling the playing field. Money spent without good results is money spent for the wrong reasons,know matter who the owner is. To try and justify one wrong with another wrong is wrong. So your theory still does not stand. Your findings only prove how money spent with bad results is not a winning solution. Nothing new,American has been there and done that.If the goverment spends our tax dollars on winning good results more power to them.In most cases it's not true ,but win goverment works we win big.

If you've read my posts on this topic you'd know that I'm no fan of the bailout. I suggested that if the US Gov. truely wanted to help the Big-3 it would keep its money, and do three free things instead.
1) Regulate energy futures so that gas prices can no longer spike based on the whims of speculators.

2) Equalize trade tariffs so that the very same tax goes on a foreign car being imported into the US, that those nations apply to our cars when we export into their nations.

3) Make an honest effort to balance trade.

Those three things would insure the long term viability of the American auto industry. Not unpopular Gov. loans that never address the real issues.

"To try and justify one wrong with another wrong is wrong. So your theory still does not stand."

Absolutely, however this wasn't my intent. I was simply stating the often ignored facts about the foreign auto makers. So if ones hatred is fueled by the allocation of American tax dollars, I hope that you have plenty of hatred. Because is doesn't begin or end with the bailout money that GM and Chrysler got. Once again I'm no fan of the bailout. Especially when there's a free, far more effective method of assisting American industry for the long haul.

Tom wrote:

Trust me Fred I do want to support America, even if it means not always getting the lowest deal, but I can't support gross mis-conduct . Meaning people having un-real expections.Com e on, you got to agree the UAW has not exactly been thinking about us Americans. Human nature dictates for them to think mostly of themselves even if it meet not being competitive.Now what is happening is the system wants to repair itself, perfectly healthy, but not much fun.You will do just fine and I hope you get over your dooms day feelings.

"you got to agree the UAW has not exactly been thinking about us Americans. Human nature dictates for them to think mostly of themselves even if it meet not being competitive."

What hasn't the UAW done in your opinion to be more competitive, and how hasn't the UAW thought about American workers?

FredUAW wrote:

<quoted text>If you've read my posts on this topic you'd know that I'm no fan of the bailout. I suggested that if the US Gov. truely wanted to help the Big-3 it would keep its money, and do three free things instead.
1) Regulate energy futures so that gas prices can no longer spike based on the whims of speculators.
2) Equalize trade tariffs so that the very same tax goes on a foreign car being imported into the US, that those nations apply to our cars when we export into their nations.
3) Make an honest effort to balance trade.
Those three things would insure the long term viability of the American auto industry. Not unpopular Gov. loans that never address the real issues.
"To try and justify one wrong with another wrong is wrong. So your theory still does not stand."
Absolutely, however this wasn't my intent. I was simply stating the often ignored facts about the foreign auto makers. So if ones hatred is fueled by the allocation of American tax dollars, I hope that you have plenty of hatred. Because is doesn't begin or end with the bailout money that GM and Chrysler got. Once again I'm no fan of the bailout. Especially when there's a free, far more effective method of assisting American industry for the long haul.

OK, with all that being said, can I ask you a question? Do you think the members of the UAW always voted in the best interest of the industry, or do you think they could have done a better job. Should GM management not given in to all the promises they couldn't come close to keeping and competing. I agree with most of what you say ,my problem comes with your focus on third world income. I just don't feel America will ever fall to that level unless we become a dictatorship. What do you think?

FredUAW wrote:

<quoted text>"you got to agree the UAW has not exactly been thinking about us Americans. Human nature dictates for them to think mostly of themselves even if it meet not being competitive."
What hasn't the UAW done in your opinion to be more competitive, and how hasn't the UAW thought about American workers?

I would say compromise with the company,but they had to be threaten with their life before they made any creative moves.They waited to late to decide they were in trouble. And they continued to act as if it was only managements fault problems were happening. Now they find themselves in real trouble. As far as the American people are concerned they continued to try and sell cars that weren't competitive knowing all the time much of it was their fault. They had what you call to much employee mentality which is f--k the company,f---k the customer what about meeeeeeee.

Tom wrote:

<quoted text>OK, with all that being said, can I ask you a question? Do you think the members of the UAW always voted in the best interest of the industry, or do you think they could have done a better job. Should GM management not given in to all the promises they couldn't come close to keeping and competing. I agree with most of what you say ,my problem comes with your focus on third world income. I just don't feel America will ever fall to that level unless we become a dictatorship. What do you think?

I think nobody is perfect. Not GM, Ford, Toyota, and certainly not the UAW. I do not follow the reasoning that suggests that The UAW has acted in a manner that isn't benefitial for American workers. If so I'd love read how we have been.

I think that the word "compete" has been hijack as of late to mean outsource, consessions, termaination ect ect. The fact of the matter is that when you speak of the competion of American auto workers, those ppl are in fact third world individuals.

I posted the information that I posted to help illustrate the fact that no American workers can compete with wages at that low of a level. So lets agree not to speak of the third world anymore. Fine with me.

It still doesn't lessen the gap between wage earners in America (Union or non-Union) with those in Mexico, India, China, and other spots in Latin America. In my book a competion has always been a fair fight. Even at Federal Min. wage standards that 2-10 times the amount of money those workers make per hour over seas.

So I ask you....how do we compete with that?