News | /2008/02/10/

There is a need to get the input of the community in the preservation of the North Shore area known as Turtle Bay.

At the same time too the project has to be balanced by realisim. Realistic appraisal of developed and unimproved land must be made. Otherwise hopes are raised only to be dashed by actual cost estimates, say linear foot costs of basic utilities in the area.

Fast tracking, get real!

The justification to oppose the development of 3,500 units appears to be lack of infrustructure to support the additional influx of development. Yet, on the Leeward Coast, we have 60,000 more units planned, a UH West Oahu University, and a slew of industrial and commercial development on the horizon...all to be served by the H-1 Freeway which is at a level of service "F." No new expressway is planned, but the Governor is keen on letting population growth swell on our side of the island with full knowledge that our infrustructure too, has exceeded its carrying capacity. Why the double standard?

The state has no option but to purchase Turtle Bay, otherwise they will have to expand Kamehameha Hwy into 4 lanes, condemning hundreds of homes in the process.

Tom Berg wrote:

Yet, on the Leeward Coast, we have 60,000 more units planned, a UH West Oahu University, and a slew of industrial and commercial development on the horizon...all to be served by the H-1 Freeway which is at a level of service "F." No new expressway is planned, but the Governor is keen on letting population growth swell on our side of the island with full knowledge that our infrustructure too, has exceeded its carrying capacity. Why the double standard?

But Tom - you will soon be riding Mayor Mufi's electric train while the rest of us are stuck on the highways. The answer isn't to buy up land every time an owner wants to build on it. All we need to do is add more miles of track for the train to nowhere and everything will be wonderful.

The whole "buy Turtle Bay" thing is most likely a bail-out of the hotel owners who can't pay their mortgages. If the real issue was overburdened infrastructure, then the Leeward side would not be getting overwhelmed as you point out.

When the train starts come up to the engine and I'll let you toot the horn.

Casey

What would buying the Turtle Bay area preserve anyway? Linda is out of her gourd? Mo' beta leave it alone and let it go. Oahu has been raped and pilaged and left for dead by big builders and greedy developers, that is not even...well, let's put it this way...it's hilarious. We can only laugh about what happens on Oahu and it's big shot attitude, just because that island is where everything is... Government, Military, Business, Shopping Malls, Sunset on Beaches, Homeless Towns in Waianae, High Buildings, Freeways, soon Rail Transits, etc; You don't find these on the other islands. May as well put more development on Oahu and let it sink deeper into oblivion.

BTW - where do you think the money will come from? The state raises money from Taxation. Anything they do is because they got money from us. If you don't want them to do things like this, you need to speak out... after all, this is your money.

concerned CItizen wrote:

The state has no option but to purchase Turtle Bay, otherwise they will have to expand Kamehameha Hwy into 4 lanes, condemning hundreds of homes in the process.

which would be cheaper? Either way it is going to cost us more money.

Tom Berg wrote:

The justification to oppose the development of 3,500 units appears to be lack of infrustructure to support the additional influx of development. Yet, on the Leeward Coast, we have 60,000 more units planned, a UH West Oahu University, and a slew of industrial and commercial development on the horizon...all to be served by the H-1 Freeway which is at a level of service "F." No new expressway is planned, but the Governor is keen on letting population growth swell on our side of the island with full knowledge that our infrustructure too, has exceeded its carrying capacity. Why the double standard?

Kapolei was deemed the "Second" capitol for Honolulu. It was already planned that it would happen. Linda has no plans set up for the North shore.... not approved plans. But the growth has been set; this was years in the making. When I dropped into Haseko's Ocean Pointe sales room 8 years ago, and saw the layout of where the community was going, I knew Ewa area would be encrouching and connected in a big way with Kapolei. The divieion of Campbell High School and Kapolei High was a sign that development in that area would be growing tremendously, with more development on the way. How else would it justify building a West Wing UH campus? You need as many registered students there to justify it's existence; as well as afford them a cost effective education by helping lower travel time and commuting to and from the Main campus in Honolulu. This will raise the standard of living on the West Side and help drive out the unwanted. That will give the government more of a justification to rid the area of the unwanted and probably help move them to another location, which would be cheaper for the State. Maybe send them to the North shore would be a feasible answer. That way you kill two birds with one stone. Build shelters for the homeless on a remote location and build up the Second Capital on the other.

excuse the wording like unwanted... hey can't help it if history repeats itself. The Hawaiian people are so generous they gave up their land and government to the haoles and look where it ends up. History is a funny thing... but no one really looks at it and tries to change it or learn from the past mistakes.

Yes ! Buy Turtle Bay or get it donated as a Park for future generations! It will cost us much more to expand the Highway up Windward to the North Shore.

It also makes good Economic Sense to keep Hawaii a World Class Tourist & Golf Destination-and to preserve our current jobs in these industries.

In Addition, Turtle Bay is vital to our Film Industry & all those good jobs. Many Films, TV Series & Commercials are filmed on the pristine beaches at Turtle Bay. If Turtle Bay is developed, all our good Film jobs will go to Thailand!

Many Hollywood Stars love Hawaii and shoot their films in Ko’olau Loa & the North Shore. Let the new Ko’olau Loa-North Shore Alliance also try to help raise money to buy Turtle Bay- there will be some Great Fundraising Parties!

Also, the owners of Turtle Bay, LA private equity firm Oaktree Capital, manages $51 billion in assets. Oaktree’s Chairman, Howard Marks and President, Bruce Karsh are each listed on Forbes Magazines Billionaire List as having $1.4 BILLION in assets Each !

We need to all start a letter writing Campaign asking Oaktree Capital to donate Turtle Bay for a big tax write-off and as a special beach park for future generations to enjoy in Hawaii. Have FAITH!

“If you have faith as small as a mustard seed..Nothing will be impossible for you." Mathew 17:20

Not surprising that Linda Smith would protest the provisions being considered by the legislature. It is becoming abundantly clear to me that the Governor's proposal is all about bailing out a developer with the taxpayers footing the bill. The community's strong opposition to the proposed expansion is a major obstacle. I would urge the media to do a more thorough investigation of those behind the development and learn what their relationship is to the Governor.

I was hoping that Oak Tree would build luxury homes out there that I could sell to the super rich Japanese. 7 baby 7, momma needs a new pair of shoes!!!

It would be much cheaper to control growth and development in the area through zoning laws and development policies. While preservations of the land appears a great idea to current residents, there needs to be a job base in the area and such growth is the only way to do it.

Otherwise, residents will have to continue to commute long distances to jobs.

Further, curently, Kam Hwy is way to small for the populace in the area. Look what happens when accidents happen, all traffic stops for hours. Also contributing to such accidents is the lack of barriers between the opposing lanes
Kam Hwy needs to be widened to a highway class. The widening of Kam Hwy is inevitable, no doubt about it.

The governor is stating that the value of the property (all) is not that much - maybe less than $200 million. I doubt that the owners will sell it for anything less than $400 million. After all, they have the development rights for more improvements and those are worth plenty - this is where the cost is high.

Also, this trend to buy vacant land for preservation by the state is a bad precedent. Growth and land preservation should be controlled by laws and policies, not by eminent domain or the like.

Hence, the north shore residents need to come to grips with what their real needs are - not just emotional rhetoric - keep the country country. You need to have controlled growth, both economic and population wise.

I like how the owners said they were against the bill because they themselves were $400 million dollars in debt. Well, let's see. If the offer is $400 million and you have that much in debt, then perhaps that's the deal you should be looking for. How can you possibly expect to make a profit on something you've clearly taken down into a sinkhole of debt?

That said, is it wise for the state to purchase something that the previous owners have had little success in making profitable? You can't just think about the purchase price here -- what about the maintenance costs?

It must be nice to have all the money in the world for the state to be/do all things for everybody.

Thats why we have all the programs fighting for the money THE STATE DOESN'T HAVE, pick any state funded program and ask yourself is there money for this, if you think there is why homeless, why drug rehab, why halfway houses ect ect. ect. are not funded?????

Think about it, good intensions help no-one, money does!!!!!!!

Still from Kaneohe

I'm all for preservation of land by hey - WHY NOW? WHY these lands? WHAT is the opportunity cost? Now we have the Governor's wily spinmeisters repackaging her latest scheme as a "once in a generation opportunity." How about some good old fashion COST-BENEFIT analysis instead of more b.s. slogan?. How about a determination on how to maximize my taxpayer dollars to preserve ecosystems? How about NOT throwing my tax dollars around for Lingle to make nice with the anti-growth crowd after her and her campaign manager for life's little conspiracy with Superferry? Here's one - how about the Defense contractors that will be financing Lingle's run for U.S. Senate donate some of their petty cash to the purchase of Turtle Bay to take some of their stink off our Governor?

I do believe that we can only judge our Governor's words by her actions.
Please feel free to add your own favorite to the running list.
#1 - no state required EIS for her favorite project - Super Ferry
#2 "Education Governor" that refuses to recognize the head of the DOE in her cabinet with all other State Depts.
# 3 Purchase Turtle Bay to "preserve" it's beauty...
# 4 .... and counting
Can't wait for the March 4th meeting at Kahuku High to hear which way the spin will go. Please, no unintended consequences on the North Shore.

so whats going on with this one?