State files complaint on teacher drug tests

The state and the union can not negotiate away an individual's privacy rights under the state and federal constitution...this is serious legal matter...where is the AG, our chief legal officer?

Kahaluu said:
"The state and the union can not negotiate away an individual's privacy rights under the state and federal constitution..."

You must be talking about the Pursuit of Happiness clause while you teachers are getting stoned.

There is no breach of contract here. There is a difference of opinion. One party wants to violate the constitution, the other party wants to structure the language to not violate the constitution. Linda Dingle doesn't care about the constitution. The BOE and HSTA have been bargaining, working together in good faith. Linda Dingle does not like people who try to work together.
Dingle doesn't care about your constitutional rights.

from Charles Bukowski

We have a right to know that our children are not in the hands of anyone who might be impaired. A teacher who is taking drugs should be encouraged to get into rehab. What - exactly - are the teachers so afraid of? If you want my tax dollars to pay your salary then I want to know that you are not on drugs while you are teaching my kids. Period!!!!

Hey teachers, what is the constitutional problem you're upset with? Let the public know in plain English what your concern is. There has been sufficient instances of teachers using and dealing drugs that warrant random testing. If you're clean, you've got nothing to worry about. Come on HSTA, get off your high horse and get with the program that you agreed to.

It seems to me that the DOE and BOE are being disingenuous here, playing a game of "chicken" in hopes of renegotiating what has already been negotiated. Testing is necessary, you agreed to it, you have a two million dollar budget. DO IT!!

Excuse me. Make that a two BILLION dollar budget.

Teachers have been doing what they are supposed to be doing for years... teaching students. If there is a teacher suspected of drug use, then create a process where that one teacher, administrator, etc. can be tested. It's a large waste of people's money and an invasion of privacy (there are prescription drugs that patients take) to require random drug testing. I thank the union for doing its job. Marie Laderta, surely you can come up with something that works for everyone.

Kimokeo wrote:

Excuse me. Make that a two BILLION dollar budget.

Actually for the current fiscal year (2009) it is almost THREE billion dollars.

Teachers need to be tested....they are educating our children....they have been instances where teachers have been caught using drugs......is the union afraid that more teachers will be caught? I believe that they think that might happen and the general public will not trust teachers anymore...ounce of prevention is a pound of cure

kahaluu wrote:

The state and the union can not negotiate away an individual's privacy rights under the state and federal constitution...this is serious legal matter...where is the AG, our chief legal officer?

There's no such thing as a right to teach children.

Random drug testing has been a commonplace feature of the REAL world of work for decades. It is time for those of my colleagues who might best be described as Rip Van Teacher to wake up and get with the program.

When we had a family reunion earlier this summer on the mainland I happened to mention to my daughter the absolute fury of some teachers at the notion that random drug testing may become part of OUR profession as it is in so many others. Her IMMEDIATE reaction I suspect is the same as many who are appalled at teacher's whining about their alleged breach of privacy: "Obviously they must be doing drugs."

IMHO the teaching profession suffers when even a few members make such a stink about a long overdue requirement that NORMAL people in other professions have long had to accept as part of their professional lives.

How can we public school teachers POSSIBLY claim to be in favor of drug free schools if we are unwilling to lead the way?

When teachers grumble about the need to purge our ranks of dope smoking degenerates, the rank oder of HYPOCRISY wafts gently into the discussion.

Makuahunowaihini wrote:

We have a right to know that our children are not in the hands of anyone who might be impaired. A teacher who is taking drugs should be encouraged to get into rehab. What - exactly - are the teachers so afraid of? If you want my tax dollars to pay your salary then I want to know that you are not on drugs while you are teaching my kids. Period!!!!

BINGO!

RIGHT ON TARGET!

The only area where we differ is that as a public school teacher I would not say "A teacher who is taking drugs should be encouraged to get into rehab", but rather should be encouraged by a steel toed boot to get the heck out of the classroom PERMANENTLY. A dope smoking degenerate masquerading as a teacher violates a sacred trust no less than a sexual predator. NEITHER has any business being in a classroom with impressionable, vulnerable children.

Schools are ALIVE with rumor and any so called "teacher" who fantasizes he or she can use dope and NOT be suspected by students is delusional. The damage done to students by such delusional dope smoking degenerates beggars descriptoin.

OUT! They need to be tossed OUT of the profession!

SBReader wrote:

Hey teachers, what is the constitutional problem you're upset with? Let the public know in plain English what your concern is. There has been sufficient instances of teachers using and dealing drugs that warrant random testing. If you're clean, you've got nothing to worry about. Come on HSTA, get off your high horse and get with the program that you agreed to.

EXACTLY RIGHT!

an educator wrote:

Teachers have been doing what they are supposed to be doing for years... teaching students. If there is a teacher suspected of drug use, then create a process where that one teacher, administrator, etc. can be tested. It's a large waste of people's money and an invasion of privacy (there are prescription drugs that patients take) to require random drug testing. I thank the union for doing its job. Marie Laderta, surely you can come up with something that works for everyone.

And here, dear friends, you see an example of the depths to which a once competent, once trusted profession of public educators has fallen.

Enough smoke has been generated by public disclosures of teachers in our state who use, distribute, and sell dope to more than warrant a belief there is a fire of considerable proportions smoldering just beneath the surface of public awareness; EVERY classroom teacher no less than every member of our armed forces needs to be subjected to the very modest requirement of random drug testing. Any so called "teacher" unwilling to pay that modest price for whatever reason should get the h e l l out of the profession.

BTW let there be no mistake: I have every confidence that MY union (HSTA) will do the right thing in helping bring about a working random drug test protocol.

I have NO such confidence in either the thoroughly corrupt DOE -- a malign outfit that steals money and hurts kids -- or the utterly worthless BOE that REFUSES to exercise oversight over the grotesquely swollen DOE ad hoc racy that demands and gets more and more and more money every year. It is no coincidence that both these sorry outfits have sought to abrogate the teacher contract WHICH THEY SIGNED by pretending that in a THREE BILLION dollar DOE slush fund budget a mere half a million cannot be found to fund random drug testing. This attempt to avoid contract compliance by DOE and BOE is a rank obscenity.

Teachers union giving teachers a bad name....again. Come on HSTA! You agreed to it, now abide by it.

Here is what happened. HSTA Executive Director (at the time) Joan Husted, in a rush to get her final contract negotiated, agreed to something she never intended on honoring. They then pushed it on the teachers, who got understandably upset, and now they're trying to save face with their members by opposing the drug tests. This is why they were silent on the issue for so long....let the others (like the ACLU and DOE) take the heat and fight your battles!

Teachers should have random drug testing. Yes, the vast majority don't do drugs, but until none do it is a problem that needs fixing. Random drug testing and rehab/counseling for anyone who tests positive. Test positive more than once and it will cost your job.

That's fair.

KAGENOGUNDAN wrote:

Teachers need to be tested....they are educating our children....they have been instances where teachers have been caught using drugs......is the union afraid that more teachers will be caught? I believe that they think that might happen and the general public will not trust teachers anymore...ounce of prevention is a pound of cure

No I do not believe it is the UNION that is afraid, but rather some teachers who are afraid of getting caught.

At one school where I taught some years ago, a teacher in our department was found dead in his domicile having overdosed on Mexican Black Tar heroin. At that same school, a first year probie teacher who was going back to the mainland confided he personally know of EIGHT members of the faculty that regularly made recreational use of dope on a weekly basis.

In my professional opinion there is more than enough justification for the random drug test provision of our contract which more than sixty percent of my fellow teachers voted to ratify.

My fond hope is that the public at large will, like the Governor, DEMAND compliance -- including some long over due DOE and BOE compliance -- with this provision of our contract.

The only ones afraid of drug testing are the guys using it. Non users welcome it "any day any time".

Refusal to implement drug testing by the teachers union speaks volumes.

All the teachers should just strike already.

The kids have a right to know if their teachers are on drugs or not.

Why does it cost so much to have a drug test taken anyway?
Pee-Pee in a cup is not exactly rocket science.

contrary to the letters above, random drug testing is not commonplace, and is limited primarily to those who operate, or are involved in the operation of vehicles (e.g. pilots, bus drivers, aircraft dispatchers, etc.) where the risk is immediate. Pre-employment drug screening, a condition of hiring IS prevalent, and helps employers identify potential issues in personnel they have never dealt with before. After hiring, it is the duty of management to monitor employees for any impairment - being high, schizophrenic, or incompetent and to deal with issues on a case by case basis.
A blanket search with no probable cause - and statistically the number of drug related incidents with teachers is insignificant - is unwarranted. How stupid are you people? "What are you afraid of/What do you have to hide?" are the arguments of the weak-minded who have no comprehension of the dynamics of a free society. Random stops of vehicles could protect us against drunk drivers; random searches bank records could thwart embezzlers; random searches of health records could catch potential psychotics; and random searches of homes could save us from terrorists. Welcome to the police state.
Drug testing is pure shibai and doesn't move us forward. Focus on real problems instead of campaign rhetoric. Focus on parents that are disengaged, focus on a education administration that manages rather than leads, bolster the teachers that inspire and show the door to those for whom it is just a job. You're not going to solve any of those by sifting through someone's urine; you'll need passion, vision, and reason to see through the smoke and determine what's really important....