Ariz. lawmakers approve bill allowing guns in bars

Judged:

1

1

1

Grand Union wrote:

I forgot to mention that the CCW holder in the establishment that serves alchol is barred by law from drinking as well.

Judged:

1

1

1

GaryGroux wrote:

<quoted text>While I can understand why the law would prevent a ccw from consuming alcohol in a business, the fact remains that ccw or not, a person does not lose their right to self defense merely because they have consumed alcohol.

GaryGroux wrote:

<quoted text>While I can understand why the law would prevent a ccw from consuming alcohol in a business, the fact remains that ccw or not, a person does not lose their right to self defense merely because they have consumed alcohol.

Judged:

1

1

1

GaryGroux wrote:

<quoted text>While I can understand why the law would prevent a ccw from consuming alcohol in a business, the fact remains that ccw or not, a person does not lose their right to self defense merely because they have consumed alcohol.

Judged:

1

1

1

Grand Union wrote:

<quoted text>
I didn't say a person drinking couldn't defend themselves, I stated the law in Tennessee says they can't drink while packing heat.
So by logical conclusion they shouldn’t be drinking anyways.

Judged:

1

1

Dan from America wrote:

<quoted text>
If responsible, it follows that if I’m carrying for the purpose of possibly having to defend (THIS IS NOT DAN FROM AMERICAS FULL RESPONSE I EDITED IT FOR SPACE, PLEASE SEE ABOVE FOR COMPLETE ACCURACY)
conclusion have the right to on and our individual desire to protect them and the Constitution that makes those laws enforceable as the law of our land that no man is above.

Judged:

1

1

1

Grand Union wrote:

<quoted text>
I believe (for myself) that drinking while carrying a firearm is extremely unwise; the logical conclusion is that I lower my chances of surviving an encounter with someone who doesn’t have myself or my families best interests in mind.
The flip side of that is if I’m impaired, I increase my chances of harming an innocent bystander, which is unacceptable as well.
Laws that go against free choice (or constitutional rights) are useless, if a person wants to carry a weapon without benefit of a permit or training, than their going to do it whether there’s a law or not.
The same goes for possessing a weapon in a bar, if a person believes they have a right (constitutional or not) to drink while in possession of that weapon, their going to do it anyways, regardless of the law or laws concerning that action.
While I don’t agree with the gun laws of the United States (or Tennessee for that matter), I do endorse law and order. Unfortunately common sense can’t be inherited or taught, so that’s why some laws were created, I understand why this legislation was enacted, but I don’t agree with it.
However, because I believe in law and order, and this law doesn’t violate my personal beliefs (drinking & carrying), I will follow it, because I would have done so anyways.
As far as having a permit for carrying a handgun, for myself I didn’t see the big deal in getting one, and if you’re stopped by the police, it decreases the hassle factor. In my line of work I bump into the police once in a while and having a permit keeps things at least civil.
Because of their beliefs concerning the second amendment if someone doesn’t want a permit that’s fine with me. It’s well within their rights to refuse getting one, just as it’s my right to have one, its my right and theirs to freedom of choice.
I choose to follow the laws that make sense; these are laws that describe actions I would have done anyway, regardless of what some idiot politician wants.
If in the future there’s a law passed that states I have to register my weapons, filling out the paperwork isn’t on my to do list.
If the permit system to carry a handgun is revoked, I’ll figure out a way to keep a handgun close at hand.
I believe in the second amendment but also in law & order. If these two beliefs can coexist, that’s all the better for me, but I will never give up my right to keep and bear arms, and neither should anyone else.
These state laws should be revoked, as the second amendment is above them. As long as a law supports my personal beliefs I’ll follow it, but that’s what works for me, your personal mileage may vary.
Anyone who chooses to ignore state and local laws on the basis of the second amendment are free to do so, it is their right. However, I’m not ready to be someone’s poster child for the second amendment, while sitting in jail awaiting trial for violations of said laws.
In closing if you choose to carry on the basis and rights described within the second amendment, than as far as I’m concerned you’re legal and legitimate to have a weapon on your person, no matter where you go or what you do.
In my case I’ll also choose to follow (some of them) the laws as enacted by my state, but only if it’s to my benefit (or an action I would have done anyways) and not the states.

Judged:

1

1

1

Dan from America wrote:

Grand Union,
Well said and I respect and agree with 99% of what you say, each man chooses their own path and that's how it should be. I'm glad you’re on the side that stands for our individual rights. Thanks for the thoughtful honest reply as I didn’t expect one based on I wasn’t taking you to task. I will think of your post as one of the pleasant moments of my day.
I hope this thread sees more attention because it’s a great topic to discuss freedom of choice because of the extremities of responsibility and irresponsibility exemplified by drinkers that carry or carriers that drink and how the permit relates to it.
The 1% disagreement I have is really a slight difference in belief and that is whereas you said “I believe in the second amendment but also in law & order. If these two beliefs can coexist,…”
I know they can coexist so there’s no question of if in my mind or heart but I will use the word if to say IF America returns to abiding by nature’s laws that do teach us common sense and the proper way to live our lives simply by living with respect for ourselves and others by respecting our rights as well as theirs. If this principle was still enforced as the law of the land as it once was in America things would change dramatically over night but like you implied there’s a whole lot of common sense missing out there today.
Have a good day good sir.

Judged:

1

1

1

Grand Union wrote:

<quoted text>
Well said, it's enjoyable to have a civil discussion about this subject, without the trolls mucking up the waters.
As you said,“it’s a great topic to discuss freedom of choice.” and I couldn’t agree more.
And you sir, I wish you to have a good day as well, and have a great 4th of July.

I Wish I didnt wrote:

And it is just not inside a bar, it is any place that serves alcohol. Up until now, you couldn't even carry in your favorite steak house if they served beer.
Hoo ray for Arizona, making it legal to protect one's self while dining out!