Supervisors tackle Marin trail conflicts

As usual, the minority of horse riders will say just about anything to keep the trails to themselves. Greedy people. The real solution is to kick horses out. They're dangerous animals and should not be allowed on public land. Not allowing bikes on current single track is a big mistake, and poaching will continue unabated.

There's more cyclists than equestrians and hikers combined, judging by my 15 years on the local trails. I don't see what the problem is--majority rules.
The equestrians (or more precisely, their horses) do far, far more damage to the trail than anything else, short of a backhoe. Anyone doubting this should check the sections of the trail in the Grand Canyon open to mules, and compare against the sections with no mules. Huge difference. And don't get me started on the horse poop and piss. No way you can sugar-coat that...just nasty!

Mountain bikers make the trails unsafe. Period. End of discussion. Just wait until someone is maimed by a bike. That's what it's going to take to get these people off the trails. I'm hoping it's not me. I regularly hike the trails at China Camp. It's like freeway.

I ride, and I vote. I also spend. It would make sense for the supes to consider that!

"Thinking about starting a sub-committee to consider the problem further..."

Expect action in 2018.

Zebulon wrote:

As usual, the minority of horse riders will say just about anything to keep the trails to themselves. Greedy people. The real solution is to kick horses out. They're dangerous animals and should not be allowed on public land. Not allowing bikes on current single track is a big mistake, and poaching will continue unabated.

don't scapegoat horses for problems created by mountain bikes. getting rid of bikes would solve the problem also.

so what i read here is mtb's ride illegal trails, create safety issues, build illegal trails, and the people who need to change, because the situation is unsustainable don't ya know, are the hikers and horses who apparently just need to put up with this behavior. the rest of us just need to understand that bike riders just don't get the enjoyment out of nature they're entitled to if they can't ride as fast as they want on any trail and build jumps and obstacles. better learn to get the hell out of the way if you like to hike and ride horses in marin.

here's a suggestion, how about bikes start obeying the rules on trails, don't poach, don't build illegally. rewarding bike riders for their uncivil behavior is absurd.

bill hilly wrote:

There's more cyclists than equestrians and hikers combined, judging by my 15 years on the local trails.

your 'experience' is incorrect and you obviously have not read the background materials provided by marin county open space dist. for this meeting.

Amanda Huginkis wrote:

"Thinking about starting a sub-committee to consider the problem further..."
Expect action in 2018.

more likely, and hopefully, this meeting was the open space district throwing the mtb's a bone, and it will never happen.

"Mountain bikers make the trails unsafe. Period. End of discussion. Just wait until someone is maimed by a bike. That's what it's going to take to get these people off the trails. I'm hoping it's not me. I regularly hike the trails at China Camp. It's like freeway."

That is great that you can come up with hyperbole and fear-mongering. The fact that you end your "discussion" after making a completely inane and unsubstantiated claim speaks fully to the myopic and self-serving side of "discussions" from the anti-shared usde trails camp.

The truth of the matter is the rest of the country has shared use trails and there is simply NO BASIS for the claim that they are inherntly too dangerous. Show me ANY data that shows that multi-use trails have a significantly higher rate of injury than any other recreational area. You can't find it, because the studies have shown no such trend.

I am not saying every foot of single track should be given over to multi-use, but right now in Marin too much of it has been hijacked by hikers and horse riders. It is publically owned land and the uses for the taxpayer controlled land needs to be more fairly represented for the users and taxpayers.

There is miles and miles of singletrack in Marin, certaily more than 8 miles in Cina Camp State Park can be opened up for multi-use. Leave much of it closed to bikes, so people that don't want to share the pulic trails can hike without bikes, same with horses. The current dearth of multi-use trails in Marin is not a fair representation of the needs of the population that pays for it.

Zebulon wrote:

As usual, the minority of horse riders will say just about anything to keep the trails to themselves. Greedy people. The real solution is to kick horses out. They're dangerous animals and should not be allowed on public land. Not allowing bikes on current single track is a big mistake, and poaching will continue unabated.

Exactly the sentiments that's are the heart of this problem -- ignorance, taking sides, flipping off of the rules, and not being able to get a long. Great job right out of the gate Zebulon, makes you look really good. Most of us out there (and I'm a hiker who goes mtn biking, walks dogs, and occasionally will go on a horse) can figure out ways to coexist and follow the rules. Its sad the vocal minority has such influence on a couple supervisors. There are enough trails out there and enough access for everyone. When you start talking about bike only trails or parks, fine, if there is money to pay for it. Be honest: those of you who poach are hardly looking to share the road/trail, you're looking to shred and fly down trails, not a use compatible with others (are race cars allowed to zoom up and down the freeway). Its the truth. And, who is going to pony up for all this stuff anyway? Aren't we in a recession?

They used to say the same thing about snowboarders. Come on, people. Share the road, share the trails (which we ALL pay for). It's the only fair way to go. That, and a little common courtesy, will bring us all a long way.

The sensible thing to do would be to make some bike only trails where user conflict potential exists.

Currently mountain bikers have miniscule trail access in relation to the number of mountain bikers that there are.

It makes no sense at all that the miniscule number of equestrians have access to allmost every trail, yet mountain bikers have virtually no single track access.

I was at the meeting. This was payback for mountain bike money and support to Kinsey and McGlashan I believe. Why conduct the meeting then, if the Marin County wide poll showed that 85% of the respondents favored the way MCOSD is managing the trails and the lands? Why give a user group who has demonstrated constant and continual contempt for the laws governing open space, more trails and more access? Is that any way to reward scofflaws, by giving them more of what they take illegally? MCOSD Public Records Act requests revealed that in 2008-09, there were 12 illegal trail constructions in 12 different open space locales with 10 of those containing extreme jump ramp constructions, noted by rangers to inflict "considerable damage to natural resources". Bike retailers like Mikes Bikes need to stop promoting speeding and unsafe riding as well. Recently they took down a bunch of videos hosted on their site that contained speeding mountain bikers in Anadel State Park. These videos can still be found at http://trailkillerz.blogspot.com
There is a culture of romanticized, rogue illegality that is actively promoted on bike web sites, magazines, videos and other outlets of this billion dollar corporate monster. Lake Tahoe has 255 miles of legal, downhill mountain bike trails, yet illegal trail builders have gone into sensitive Tahoe wilderness environs and carved 30 miles of destructive trails that authorities are still dismantling. What does that tell you about the mind set of these people?

Speeding bikes don't belong on narrow trails, unless it's on their own private property. Marin Open Space is not someones private roller-coaster thrill park.

Its a freeway out there. Many bikers obey the speed limits, but there are those that take curves on single trails at high speeds and "damn the torpedos!" I've never seen a horse galloping at high speeds on trails, only bikes at high speeds. Sadly it will take a serious injury or death to step up enforecment. And then of course you know that the injured hiker is going to sue the county....I'm not understanding why the fire roads are not sufficient. The single trails were designed and built as HIKING TRAILS - they were never designed or intended to be high speed rides for bikers. Besides, how can you enjoy the hiking trails at high rates of speed? Oh, right, it's for the bumps and jumps. I say, go to Great America and leave the trails for the hikers and equestarians going 4 MPH. Otherwise, on a single trail it is an accident waiting to happen.

The hikers always have been a grumpy self centered lot and want to shut out almost all but themselves and horses do significant damage to the trails. I say Share the trails for everyone's enjoyment and quit whining.

There is the same tired old voices popping up on this forum with the same tired old arguments..MTB's are bad, period, end of discussion, horses & hikers are next to godliness, hiking trails werent designed for bikers etc etc etc. When will these people realise the only way to get this problem solved IS TO WORK TOGETHER! Prohibition didnt work people, you cant just ostracise a chunk of society because of a few renegades! Thats just crass & ignorant stereotyping & I would hope for better from your average Marinite..

ps most singletrack trails in Marin are natural & v few (if any) were cut specifically for the use of hikers so that argument holds less water than a colander!
pps I know which I find more intimidating when it comes to a galloping horse & a speeding bike..At least the bike has brakes!

Mt. Tam was the birthplace of mountain biking. I got to ride the trails before it was illegal. I barely saw anyone. Same deal today, I see more cyclists on the singletrack than I do hikers.

The equestrians and neo-environmentalists are full of crap literally and figuratively. Deer do more damage than cyclists, equestrians and hikers combined. I think they should make the equestrians clean up the crap, nothing like using a trail and having to deal with the flies.

Kinsey should recuse himself as he benefits from the mountain biking lobby including their paying for his European vacation. Policing is the ONLY thing that will work but Kinssey doesn't want to offend his old pals. Kinsey needs to go.

That's like saying, "OK, we can't stop burglaries so we're going to set aside one nieghborhood that burglars can use." You will never confine mountain bikers to a "park" because they will always ride wherever, whenever and however they want unless they are totally banned on public lands. Taxpayers can't afford to cater to every extreme sport that wants to insert itself into mainstream traditional use areas.

Marin County Open Space District policy is for low impact use and the PRIMARY purpose of preserving and protecting Marin's natural resources - not high impact recreational opportunities.