French press seemingly indifferent to Landis' positive doping t...

american wrote:

zwrite, still cant face the facts ya,THE FRENCH DOCTORS TESTED HIM POSITIVE, dont sidetrack or kiss ass jus he is an american,u now can remember him 1 american doper in 100 years of le tour de france,bloody FAKE,maybe u dont live in the real world, its all about$$$u see landis dont give a shit if he has shame himself or fellow AMERICANS.....oops americans

PLEASE, take your silly B.S. and spread it on the streets so you can get caught and get the canning (sp?) you deserve... at least they punish litterbugs properly in Singapore.

Every other hater who is presuming guilt... whether from America, England, Canada, or anywhere else... please just be thankful you are not being accused of wrongdoing based on shaky, unreliable test findings, and the presumption of guilt by the illogical and illinformed.

american wrote:

zwrite, still cant face the facts ya,THE FRENCH DOCTORS TESTED HIM POSITIVE, dont sidetrack or kiss ass jus he is an american,u now can remember him 1 american doper in 100 years of le tour de france,bloody FAKE,maybe u dont live in the real world, its all about$$$u see landis dont give a shit if he has shame himself or fellow AMERICANS.....oops americans

Comments such as this one do not help to have a rational discusion.

Raymond wrote:

<quoted text>
Comments such as this one do not help to have a rational discusion.

Yes, rational discussions require we start by presuming absolutely nothing.

The minute we start relying on any information, even information we presume reliable and factual, to form a discussion or rationale, we are immediately presuming that the components of our conclusion are solid and reliable.

The weakest link in a chain is one which allows the entire structure to fail. Statements or conclusions based on presumed or unreliable 'facts' cannot be relied upon themselves.

Uhm this article contains many falsehoods. A) Floyd had an abnormal ratio of Testerone to Epitesterone which is due to LOW Epitesterone NOT elevated Testerone levels. B) Floyd has NOT been stripped of his Tour Title.
Perhaps you should get your facts straight before writing. Better yet, when I see a topix.net article, I'll just categorize it in the same light as a tabloid mag that couldn't care less about integrity.

This Is My Name wrote:

Uhm this article contains many falsehoods. A) Floyd had an abnormal ratio of Testerone to Epitesterone which is due to LOW Epitesterone NOT elevated Testerone levels. B) Floyd has NOT been stripped of his Tour Title.
Perhaps you should get your facts straight before writing. Better yet, when I see a topix.net article, I'll just categorize it in the same light as a tabloid mag that couldn't care less about integrity.

Thank you. I was starting to wonder about the wording of these titles. Like Leno "grilling" Landis. PAH! I saw the interview and I revied it three times just to make sure I didn't miss anything or hear anything wrongly. "Grilling" conjures an image of an agressive cross-examiner, and Leno---while being frim, and direct---was at ease, even mellow. And Landis was allowed to answer fully ( until ol' Bill barfed in!).

Everyone wants to be famous. Get their picture in the paper. Perhaps this is why Floyd is on his self-appointed tour? Perhaps this explains Dick Ponud ( et all ) and their "style" of "getting in peoples faces ( and telling the NY Times that he does )"? Perhaps also, this topix.net site really enjoys getting peoples rise with inflamatory headlines just for the reation? It's working, wouldn't y'all say? There's a saying that "Those who can, do. Those who can't, write ( about it )." While WE hammer away, through all the fog, there ARE some gems to be found here.

I think Dick Pound does a good job in a difficult situation. No one is ever going to like a policeman if he's chasing them. He doesn't personally do the tests etc. Retrospective testing is only something that might have been. He seems sincere and puts his reputation on the line.

The tossers at the UCI, IOCC, Le'Quipe always duck out. No one mentions Verbruggan's part, suits him, he wants to get on the IOCC's gravy train.

...which is what I'm referring to as the grandstanding and chest thumpers. Un-professional at best, damaging at worst. Why all the media relations units? Why not clean this system to funnel through ONE news outlet source? Yes, hard to change old tradition, but this has been whored out by all of this posturing. As far as Floyd goes, I now view this as an arms race of sorts...first the premature leaking of information, then Landis on the defensive---now looking very half-assed!, now thwe counter-offensive with talk of lawsuits to Landis for somehow sullying cyclings reputation... and on and on it goes. At SOME point some people here have to grow-up and start acting like professionals, or we all get to see more of these fat-ass smarmy yuppie jerks batting us and our sport around for fun. I hate being a laughing stock, and I blame everyone in the process for this.

Insider wrote:

I think Dick Pound does a good job in a difficult situation. No one is ever going to like a policeman if he's chasing them. He doesn't personally do the tests etc. Retrospective testing is only something that might have been. He seems sincere and puts his reputation on the line.
The tossers at the UCI, IOCC, Le'Quipe always duck out. No one mentions Verbruggan's part, suits him, he wants to get on the IOCC's gravy train.

Dick Pound is as big a wanker as the rest...

CheatersUseSpeed_Duh wrote:

<quoted text>
PLEASE, take your silly B.S. and spread it on the streets so you can get caught and get the canning (sp?) you deserve... at least they punish litterbugs properly in Singapore.
Every other hater who is presuming guilt... whether from America, England, Canada, or anywhere else... please just be thankful you are not being accused of wrongdoing based on shaky, unreliable test findings, and the presumption of guilt by the illogical and illinformed.

Thanks, for catching my back..duh. I'm just joking with the Singapore guy. I guess he has no sense of humor. But, only a fly on the wall or superman (with his xray vision.)would know without a doubt that Lanis cheated...plus I guess a confession. I'm being open minded, because I read all the articles and understand all of it a little better. Especailly the masking agent stuff. Someone even mentioned the fact that Landis could have been injected with his old blood that has synthetic testerone in it for a boost...okay that seem strange to me. Blood has to be refrigated and also flying it into france..how is that done without having the airline people asking alot of questions. Maybe, I'm naive about the whole thing. But, if the cheaters are to really be stopped, the testing has to improve.
Z
GB+

CheatersUseSpeed_Duh wrote:

<quoted text>
Yes, rational discussions require we start by presuming absolutely nothing.
The minute we start relying on any information, even information we presume reliable and factual, to form a discussion or rationale, we are immediately presuming that the components of our conclusion are solid and reliable.
The weakest link in a chain is one which allows the entire structure to fail. Statements or conclusions based on presumed or unreliable 'facts' cannot be relied upon themselves.

With all due respect, I think that your statements above are a load of rubbish.

If, as you say, rational discussions require us to "start by presuming absolutely nothing", then NO discussion would ever proceed--some degree of presumption is AXIOMATIC...we presume we are people, we presume we capable of rational discussion, we presume we have something of consequence to talk about, we presume some common agreement on the elements of how the world works, etc., etc., etc....

Look, there's always an element of philosophy in any discussion, but I fear that your overbroad statements above stray seriously off-topic.

Will wrote:

<quoted text>
With all due respect, I think that your statements above are a load of rubbish.
If, as you say, rational discussions require us to "start by presuming absolutely nothing", then NO discussion would ever proceed--some degree of presumption is AXIOMATIC...we presume we are people, we presume we capable of rational discussion, we presume we have something of consequence to talk about, we presume some common agreement on the elements of how the world works, etc., etc., etc....
Look, there's always an element of philosophy in any discussion, but I fear that your overbroad statements above stray seriously off-topic.

I think he was just responding to "american/singapore" aggressive comebacks. It would be nice if we could be polite to each other. Of course, that's a women's point of view. But, I must say the women in other forums do get pretty out of hand and way off the subject. Major cat fights sometimes. I think if we all remember we all have a opinion and are free to express it. However, some maturity levels have not developed to be really be rational. Not, putting anyone down...just remember that when responding to some of the postings. There's an Avant posting on Lance Armstrong forums who really hates the guy...people have learn to ignore him...so maybe we can do the same for the less rational comments here,
But, like I've said before...can't we all get along?
Happy reading and posting to all!
Z
GB+

zwrites wrote:

<quoted text>
I think he was just responding to "american/singapore" aggressive comebacks. It would be nice if we could be polite to each other. Of course, that's a women's point of view. But, I must say the women in other forums do get pretty out of hand and way off the subject. Major cat fights sometimes. I think if we all remember we all have a opinion and are free to express it. However, some maturity levels have not developed to be really be rational. Not, putting anyone down...just remember that when responding to some of the postings. There's an Avant posting on Lance Armstrong forums who really hates the guy...people have learn to ignore him...so maybe we can do the same for the less rational comments here,
But, like I've said before...can't we all get along?
Happy reading and posting to all!
Z
GB+

why do american always belive they are above everything else??where the W M D??still trying to rule the world,i have lived in america before fyi, in L A, crime ,gang killing,drugs the list go on.

american wrote:

yes iam sure , i saw it with my eyes,he took the juice, juice up real good,proof is in stage 17, what more do u want?sure if u stole from yr boss, u will put your arms swear to almighty i did not do nothing, normal for human to act like a saint when hand in the cookie jar ..home of the cheats, land of the dopers...

I hav plazma teevee 4 sail cheep! US byerz get free shipin' jus giv me Ur credit card info an all gud! westurn yoonyun gud 2! my hommy "mohamed" tak car of U!

american wrote:

<quoted text>why do american always belive they are above everything else??where the W M D??still trying to rule the world,i have lived in america before fyi, in L A, crime ,gang killing,drugs the list go on.

Smell A, ya, THAT'S the "real Amerika"? you do ponoz 2?

indifference

american wrote:

<quoted text>why do american always belive they are above everything else??where the W M D??still trying to rule the world,i have lived in america before fyi, in L A, crime ,gang killing,drugs the list go on.

rude..is rude...if you're American, France, Chinese...Mixed Breed ...whatever. We know their's crime in big cities...we know there's drugs in big sports...some us would like to find solutions to such things...in peaceful ways...there are things that going on in your part of the world that is just as evil...maybe help find solutions to those evils.

zwrites wrote:

<quoted text>
rude..is rude...if you're American, France, Chinese...Mixed Breed ...whatever. We know their's crime in big cities...we know there's drugs in big sports...some us would like to find solutions to such things...in peaceful ways...there are things that going on in your part of the world that is just as evil...maybe help find solutions to those evils.

yes i agree,but i am taking about jus simple thing like walking to the market or biking at night,dont crap me how beautiful it is on the streets in america,u can get shot just but looking at someone to long,here i can dont have to live in FEAR,i was in L A for 6 months and my two sisters are american citizens.

zwrites wrote:

<quoted text>
rude..is rude...if you're American, France, Chinese...Mixed Breed ...whatever. We know their's crime in big cities...we know there's drugs in big sports...some us would like to find solutions to such things...in peaceful ways...there are things that going on in your part of the world that is just as evil...maybe help find solutions to those evils.

to zwrites i am sorry if i sound rude , but maybe u from L A and u understand,the truth many american dont want to speak out, maybe they feel ashame about their homeland but try walking in downtown L A after dark u will know what i mean,many guys are high on drugs ,hence might gun u ,jus because u stare at them,the LA gangs are alive,takeing the metro after dark is a death trap, u never knowwhats going to happen nexy,thats LA for u...

american wrote:

<quoted text>to zwrites i am sorry if i sound rude , but maybe u from L A and u understand,the truth many american dont want to speak out, maybe they feel ashame about their homeland but try walking in downtown L A after dark u will know what i mean,many guys are high on drugs ,hence might gun u ,jus because u stare at them,the LA gangs are alive,takeing the metro after dark is a death trap, u never knowwhats going to happen nexy,thats LA for u...

My LA...is Louisiana. In the heart of "Katrina came through and messed up our world ...town" ! The crime is bad here also...poor soulful New Orleans. I lived in the real LA for awhile and yes the crime is horrible. But, what does this have to do with Floyd Landis and his troubles. The oridinary citizen hates the fact there is crime in their beloved cities...so glad you feel safe where you are...but the reality is that there's alot of bad in this big world...but there's also alot of good. That's what I choose to see. LA (Los Angeles)in all it's faults is home of many sweet people..Many good friends that I still keep in touch with. The mixture of culture is wonderful and is what the America (I love) is all about. And ask any minority that opened up a family business and succeeded if it could have happen in their native country. Floyd Lanids came from very kind hearted people...if he losted his way and decided to use steriods..I feel so sorry for them. But, if he was wronged in some way...I pray they find out the truth for his friends and family sake...who are suffering though this ordeal with him. For me it's best to see all the pieces of the puzzle but the full picture is complete.
Z
GB+

before the full picture is complete ;)