Census estimates show Cleveland and Youngstown metro areas amon...

A bunch of you are going to praise the south for it 'non union' work mentality and it's "lower tax burden" but keep in mind that the moving of jobs to the south, the population shift, the lower housing cost and the lower working wages are the reason the economy for the country is tanking.

The truth is that the south fee's the hell out of you. And makes it seem the tax burden is less but if you own a new car you can be paying upwards of 500 a year just to drive it. But keep telling yourself that the south does everything by keeping unions out and making the labor force cheaper to hire.

sooner or later many of the water tables in the South will collapse, as some are already doing.

Really wrote:

A bunch of you are going to praise the south for it 'non union' work mentality and it's "lower tax burden" but keep in mind that the moving of jobs to the south, the population shift, the lower housing cost and the lower working wages are the reason the economy for the country is tanking.
The truth is that the south fee's the hell out of you. And makes it seem the tax burden is less but if you own a new car you can be paying upwards of 500 a year just to drive it. But keep telling yourself that the south does everything by keeping unions out and making the labor force cheaper to hire.

Yes, the cost of living is cheaper in the south than in the north. I have family in the south and family in the north so I know. Unions were a necessary thing when they were created. Unfortunately, over the years they began to abuse their power until some were demanding so many days off per year for employees (including asking for birthdays off) that corporations got weary and then planned for many years how to set up shop out of this country. I know of a factory worker supervisor that predicted years ago that this nation would lose jobs to overseas because he knew that the unions were going too far in their demands. Once too much pressure was put on, the corporations simply moved out many jobs. It's sad and a shame, but unions are partly responsible for the present job situation. I do support unions, I jus wish years ago they would have made some different choices.

Everbody needs to stop what the're doing and find these lost people. First place to look: between the cushions on your couch. When I've lost something, that's generally where I'll find it.

Second place: in your car.

If everyone did their part and looked in those two places, I'm sure we could round up at least half of those people. Easily.

Edward wrote:

<quoted text>
Yes, the cost of living is cheaper in the south than in the north. I have family in the south and family in the north so I know. Unions were a necessary thing when they were created. Unfortunately, over the years they began to abuse their power until some were demanding so many days off per year for employees (including asking for birthdays off) that corporations got weary and then planned for many years how to set up shop out of this country. I know of a factory worker supervisor that predicted years ago that this nation would lose jobs to overseas because he knew that the unions were going too far in their demands. Once too much pressure was put on, the corporations simply moved out many jobs. It's sad and a shame, but unions are partly responsible for the present job situation. I do support unions, I jus wish years ago they would have made some different choices.

The difference between a union and non-union company is this:

At the non-union company, the company can do whatever they want, no matter how unreasonable.

At the union company, the company can do whatever they want, within reason.

Your employment experience may vary, but that's generally the situation.

City Worker wrote:

<quoted text>
The difference between a union and non-union company is this:
At the non-union company, the company can do whatever they want, no matter how unreasonable.
At the union company, the company can do whatever they want, within reason.
Your employment experience may vary, but that's generally the situation.

That used to be the situation and that's why unions played such an important role in years past. But, newer companies that came into existance in the 90's and recently have shown that they can give great benefits to attract the right kind of employees without having a union. The work landscape has changed. The tech jobs are a good example of non-union based employment with good benefits. Factories are the older industry and those jobs will continue to disappear and move to places where the companies can pay less. I don't like it, but that's the way it is. We need to help educate folks into new fields who've lost their job to overseas workers

I can think of several examples of attitudes, impressions and the mentalities of Ohioans that reinforce and feed the negative perceptions of this State.
1. Not just the Unions, but lingering belief that the economy of the 1950’s can be restored. This belief is fed continuously by Politicians the likes of Tim Ryan, Betty Sutton, Dennis Kucinich and many others. It allows them to be elected and get their pot of gold, but drives Ohio as a whole in the opposite direction.
2. Taxes rates do matter whether you want to believe it or not. People and Business that have the resources to move to less taxing and less costly States will continue to do so.
3. Government at all levels must be downsized, restructured and efficiencies/ cost reductions must be implemented.
4. This downsizing, consolidation and restructuring must also be applied to the Education establishment.
5. These changes in the Public sector must be accompanied by an all out redistribution of resources to promote private sector development.

Look at what a negative light the recent Democratic primary cast upon this State. It reminds me of two quotes that ring as true as ever “misery loves company” Ohio, and “nothing succeeds like success” Texas.

Really is one of those Tim Ryan or Dem supporter that geneva is talking about does not get it that there are good jobs and wages to be made in Georgia, North Carolina and Florida and not to mention Alabama making Mercedes, check out their w-2's?? People know this because they have traveled there and also know people specifically that are doing quite well like I do. The fees come on Florida has no state income tax, WAKE UP!!
Read something other than the Beacon. Know one is buying your argument anymore, think of new stuff.

Simple Truth - No Jobs = people leave! Like Rally's say's - "you gotta eat!"

The unions, absolutely necessary in saving the worker from the abuse of the barons, became an abuse.
UAW members clocking in and then LEAVEING and coming back 8 hours later to clock out! Management was powerless to fire the slackers.
Because we have lost our work ethic.
The Japs are right. Americans are lazy. We don't wanna work.
That's why businesses hire the Mexicans. They will work.
How can you change a cultural attitude?

City Worker wrote:

<quoted text>
The difference between a union and non-union company is this:
At the non-union company, the company can do whatever they want, no matter how unreasonable.

If that was truly the case in this post-union era, then that would presume that there was no way a non-union business could survive due to labor starvation.

Fear and hyperbole are nice and all, but they don't make good arguments.

OMG wrote:

<quoted text>.........unless your on the public taxpayer dole of welfare and medicade, then you stay because you don't want to have a job and work for a living because your LAZY !!!!.

but isn't the job of "Hood Tax Collector" a job of last resort.....?

Yahweh on Rye wrote:

<quoted text>
If that was truly the case in this post-union era, then that would presume that there was no way a non-union business could survive due to labor starvation.
Fear and hyperbole are nice and all, but they don't make good arguments.

A non-union business survives in 2 ways:

(1)Some, as an earlier poster mentioned, treat their employees fairly,pay a decent wage, etc and avoid unions---such as Fedex, dot-coms,etc. So can attract workers as a "good place to work"

(2)the rest of the businesses---unfortunately, they are in the majority---don't pay well, don't have great working conditions, etc---or a union. But they get theie employees the same way the gas stations get their customers today. Everyone is 3.259(or close to it) so one is forced to pick one of them and pay that price. With mostly lower-paying, non-union jobs the only kind available in many cases, the worker has no real choice.

City Worker wrote:

(2)the rest of the businesses---unfortunately, they are in the majority---don't pay well, don't have great working conditions, etc---or a union. But they get theie employees the same way the gas stations get their customers today. Everyone is 3.259(or close to it) so one is forced to pick one of them and pay that price. With mostly lower-paying, non-union jobs the only kind available in many cases, the worker has no real choice.

If there is a majority of these, you should have no problem coming up with specific examples and data including worker opinion of their own situation.

Your analogy of gas station collusion is amusing. What evidence do you have of actual price collusion among retail gas stations? What evidence do you have of businesses colluding in their pricing of labor?

I can see why: nobody in their right mind would want to live in Cleveland or Youngstown if they have the means to move out. It's like the old movie "Escape From New York!"

geneva wrote:

I can think of several examples of attitudes, impressions and the mentalities of Ohioans that reinforce and feed the negative perceptions of this State.
1. Not just the Unions, but lingering belief that the economy of the 1950’s can be restored. This belief is fed continuously by Politicians the likes of Tim Ryan, Betty Sutton, Dennis Kucinich and many others. It allows them to be elected and get their pot of gold, but drives Ohio as a whole in the opposite direction.
2. Taxes rates do matter whether you want to believe it or not. People and Business that have the resources to move to less taxing and less costly States will continue to do so.
3. Government at all levels must be downsized, restructured and efficiencies/ cost reductions must be implemented.
4. This downsizing, consolidation and restructuring must also be applied to the Education establishment.
5. These changes in the Public sector must be accompanied by an all out redistribution of resources to promote private sector development.
Look at what a negative light the recent Democratic primary cast upon this State. It reminds me of two quotes that ring as true as ever “misery loves company” Ohio, and “nothing succeeds like success” Texas.

Exactamente!!!

Not Really wrote:

Really is one of those Tim Ryan or Dem supporter that geneva is talking about does not get it that there are good jobs and wages to be made in Georgia, North Carolina and Florida and not to mention Alabama making Mercedes, check out their w-2's?? People know this because they have traveled there and also know people specifically that are doing quite well like I do. The fees come on Florida has no state income tax, WAKE UP!!
Read something other than the Beacon. Know one is buying your argument anymore, think of new stuff.

Here in SC BMW will add 500 more to their nearly 5000 person workforce. Start at $21 hr,$26 hr after 2 years, plus bonuses. New International Center for Automotive Research will employ thousands more eventually. Over 50 suppliers to BMW have located in the state, paying average of $15 hr.
Here is the scoop on our taxes: Yes, it is very costly to register your vehicle, but there are no city or county income taxes. Also, sales tax on any car is capped at $300. The registration fee is based on value, so it drops 15-20% every year. Example: 2006 Chrysler 300C $620 first year registration,$500 second. Would have paid $2000 in sales tax in Ohio, not the $300 I paid. State income tax allows same deductions as federal. Seniors get to deduct an additional $30,000 from taxable income, and Social Security is not taxed. Most Senior couples under 70K pay no state income tax. House worth 220K,$1400 year in taxes, for seniors, half of that.
Oh, yeah, we had our average snowfall this winter, 2 inches total.

I suggested looking in other states. If a person can not find a good job in their own city/state, they go elsewhere.

gee now there's a surprize.....not

Considering our leaders and their great ideas, I'd like to know how many people Akron has lost, since this TRULY IS The Lost City!

I don't care how many people lay hands and lay money down, there is NO RESURRECTING THIS LOST CITY!

Start keeping up with the times and helping the people of the city, like reducing real estate taxes, etc., the schools can do without sports for a year, although the jocks are counting on this for their college, but if there are people in the other arts, they have the same failure rate as the jocks.

Get the politicians off their a-ses instead of meeting at the local upscale pubs to have meetings that include elaborate dinners that WE PAY FOR, including the booze and justifying it as a write-off and get them TO WORK!

Want to save a city? Save the people.
Want to lose a city? Lose the people.

Its a very simple math problem only answered by REDOING the math!