Is Kobe Bryant better than Michael Jordan?

Dan wrote:

it would be so cool if somehow teams from different eras could play eachother in the primes
like a lot of people think young Mike Tyson in his prime could have maybe beaten Ali in his prime. actually, fight night round 4 is gonna have young Mike Tyson, & Ali, Lennox, etc. might have to buy that one

Yeah I hear you that would be really kool, the 92 dream team vs todays dream team, ali was fast, if he can handle a george foreman when he had no business being in the ring with him then maybe ali in his prime could have beaten tyson in his prime, Tyson is a sad story I cant believe how bad his career got. Getting back to basketball I would love to see some good basketball match ups, like showtime vs the bulls or the 60s celtics, the 80s celtics vs todays celtics, things like that would be kool.

Dan wrote:

the Bulls did break up the Pistons try for a 3 peat. that was their main rival, once they punched that bully back in the mouth, nobody could intimidate them again. the Pistons made them tough as nails. so the knicks never could rattle them. basically the Pistons created a monster

Do you think that phil jackson does not get enough credit? Jordan obviously deserves a lot of credit and so does pippen but not as much as Jordan, but I do feel phil some how gets lost in all this, they just say this guy can only win with superstars but really which coach doesnt win with superstars? The closest might be Larry Brown with the pistons but you can argue how good they are.

i think Ali would probably wink, cause he had a huge heart. Tyson really had no heart, he just relied on his talent, & rage(well i guess young Tyson had some heart)... but he was so skilled in his prime, he could have beaten anyone maybe. he had a decent chin too

Dan wrote:

<quoted text>they certainly made me nervous, they were awesome, they played almost flawless fundemental basketball
the most nervous i ever got though, was when the Pacers took them 7 games, & even game 7 was close. that was another really fundemental team, with awesome defense, & one of the most clutch players ever in Reggie Miller in his prime

Yeah was that the series where Reggie basically pushed off to free himself for the game winning 3? He was great without the ball much like hamilton only better.

Phil is a great coach. he has a great sense of what each players roll should be. like during the Laker 00-02 3 peat, he knew Shaq had to be the #1 option to win titles, & it worked like a charm(even though Kobe hated that), Phil knew what would work, & making Kobe the #1 option would not have, especailly then, sense Kobe wasnt as good as he is now. but yea, Phil can coach for sure. i lost a bit of respect for him, after writing that book, & telling everyone the truth about Bryant, then going back once the Lakers made a huge offer$. it was like "hey Kobe old buddy old pal, i was ju$t kidding about what i $aid" $$$$$

stick to your guns Phil, instead he sold them out for a huge contract

Showtime wrote:

<quoted text>
Yeah was that the series where Reggie basically pushed off to free himself for the game winning 3? He was great without the ball much like hamilton only better.

yea, Reggie shoved Michael like it was UFC to get open, lol

i know refs dont like to call fouls in closing seconds, but damn, lol, that was so blatant

Dan wrote:

Phil is a great coach. he has a great sense of what each players roll should be. like during the Laker 00-02 3 peat, he knew Shaq had to be the #1 option to win titles, & it worked like a charm(even though Kobe hated that), Phil knew what would work, & making Kobe the #1 option would not have, especailly then, sense Kobe wasnt as good as he is now. but yea, Phil can coach for sure. i lost a bit of respect for him, after writing that book, & telling everyone the truth about Bryant, then going back once the Lakers made a huge offer$. it was like "hey Kobe old buddy old pal, i was ju$t kidding about what i $aid" $$$$$
stick to your guns Phil, instead he sold them out for a huge contract

Well yes earlier on shaq was the right decision to have the team lead, but some where in there kobe became the better player and shaq would not step down, phil knew what a baby shaq was about that sort of thing so he knew he had to please shaq otherwise you would have seen shaq do his own whining about leaving (which he later did after selling his house and demanding out) Phil even said it himself that he knew how thin skinned shaq was so he had to stroke his ego far more than kobe, and you can tell that was happening as a laker fan, but of course I didnt care about none of that at the time I loved both shaq and kobe the same. Of course what should have happened is shaq recognize that kobe has blossomed into a great player and step aside and be the second option but he wasnt about to do that, so to prove everyone wrong that he indeed was a great team mate he later did that in miami. Phil talked about the younger kobe im sure kobe was a knuckle head but really hes not the only one its just that kobe has a huge status and the media has to write about everything he does even if its a cough. I believe phil sees a difference in kobe now as most of us do, and now he bashes shaq, thats the one that boggled my mind why didnt anyone ever point out what a jerk shaq could be sometimes, I guess no one took that babbling moron seriously so all his little cheap shots were just "funny"

Dan wrote:

<quoted text>yea, Reggie shoved Michael like it was UFC to get open, lol
i know refs dont like to call fouls in closing seconds, but damn, lol, that was so blatant

haha yeah I have to agree with you on that one, reggie pushed off and then twirled like a ballerina, one thing about michael he just pumped his fist in the air and that was that, he didnt need no touchdown celebration.

Dan wrote:

Jordan outscored him every time, & while he was shooting 3 straight air balls in the clutch that year against the Jazz, Michael sent the Jazz fishing with a game winner, & finals mvp(& regular season mvp, & all star mvp). yea, Kobe wanted no part of that

um...did i mention kobe was coming off the bench? kobe was 18 years old, while jordan was what? 35 or something? kobe was already doing the spectacular at such a young age! and already people were excited by kobe vs jordan! i think that says something!

Dan wrote:

Jordan outscored him every time, & while he was shooting 3 straight air balls in the clutch that year against the Jazz, Michael sent the Jazz fishing with a game winner, & finals mvp(& regular season mvp, & all star mvp). yea, Kobe wanted no part of that

There is simple explanation for those 3 airballs.

Dan wrote:

Phil is a great coach. he has a great sense of what each players roll should be. like during the Laker 00-02 3 peat, he knew Shaq had to be the #1 option to win titles, & it worked like a charm(even though Kobe hated that), Phil knew what would work, & making Kobe the #1 option would not have, especailly then, sense Kobe wasnt as good as he is now. but yea, Phil can coach for sure. i lost a bit of respect for him, after writing that book, & telling everyone the truth about Bryant, then going back once the Lakers made a huge offer$. it was like "hey Kobe old buddy old pal, i was ju$t kidding about what i $aid" $$$$$
stick to your guns Phil, instead he sold them out for a huge contract

Sorry but You are so wrong about Kobe at the time, and shaq too.

Phil just did what a coach would do stick to franchise and that time had the label, Kobe did not have problem with that.
As dominant as Shaq was, he screwed up the triangle by being him self the Lakers could had been more dominant that they were if Shaq would had follewed the triangle better.

Actully Kobe did try to work with Shaq, but he the big fella never did with him.

Kobe is 1 wrote:

<quoted text>
um...did i mention kobe was coming off the bench? kobe was 18 years old, while jordan was what? 35 or something? kobe was already doing the spectacular at such a young age! and already people were excited by kobe vs jordan! i think that says something!

Kobe was 19(his 2nd year is what we're talkin about, he was 18 his first year(& scored only 5 points in their first 2 meeting, & Michael faked him out of his panites & drove past him & dunked the first time he guarded MJ) anyway... so Kobe was 19, & Jordan was 35. neither in their prime, but... it was much closer to their primes than in 2002-03, when Michael was 39-40, he was way way past his prime, & Kobe was in his prime

Dan wrote:

<quoted text>Kobe was 19(his 2nd year is what we're talkin about, he was 18 his first year(& scored only 5 points in their first 2 meeting, & Michael faked him out of his panites & drove past him & dunked the first time he guarded MJ) anyway... so Kobe was 19, & Jordan was 35. neither in their prime, but... it was much closer to their primes than in 2002-03, when Michael was 39-40, he was way way past his prime, & Kobe was in his prime

I think michaels prime just extended longer than most players lol, seriously the dude seem to get better with age just because you reach a certain age doesnt mean your no longer in your prime, if your production is not declining your still there.

Dan wrote:

<quoted text>Kobe was 19(his 2nd year is what we're talkin about, he was 18 his first year(& scored only 5 points in their first 2 meeting, & Michael faked him out of his panites & drove past him & dunked the first time he guarded MJ) anyway... so Kobe was 19, & Jordan was 35. neither in their prime, but... it was much closer to their primes than in 2002-03, when Michael was 39-40, he was way way past his prime, & Kobe was in his prime

ok 19 years old then, my bad. of course the very first time you guard someone of his stature he is going to school him, takes years to get used to the difference! but he got it in one year! and what are you talking about? kobe was not in his prime then! hes in his prime now! Kobe is just as good as MJ in the skills department! maybe better. in terms of leadership and understanding of the game, then MJ was much better, but kobe has taken a learning curve as of late!

Kobe is a great player, but he has never done or dealt with the things Jordan has. Jordan played in an era where touch fouls didnt exist (remember the Pistons). Jordan never had arguably the most dominating center in the league in an offense that was designed for a center (the triangle offense. Even now Kobe has a better team, with centers who could rebound and shoot 3s and a good roster all the way to the injured list. Jordan had people who were specialized in an area such as Steve Kerr for 3pts, but they cant do the things Kobe's team can do now. Jordan had Pippen, but Jordan made Pippen as good as he was. Compare Pau Gasol and Luc Longley, I'd take Pau on my team, but Jordan never had that, and yet he still got his. Jordan prevented legendary players from getting titles (Ewing,Barkley, Stockton, Malone, Wilkins, Mourning, David Robinson, Tim Hardaway, Allen Iverson, and Kobe and Shaq and so forth.(Olajuwon got his titles after Jordan left for 1 1/2 yrs)
And 81 points vs Toronto (1 of the worst teams that year) in a regular season game doesnt compare to Jordan's 63 points in a semifinals playoff game vs the legendary Larry Bird and his Celtics in Jordan's 2nd year of the league (the same year Jordan missed most of the season due to a near career-ending injury)http://en.wikipedia.org /wiki/Michael_Jordan. Has Kobe even come close to that? Kobe is a great player, but dont compare someone who has had more help, done less, still makes bad game decisions, and in his 12th season just learned to be part of the team. He chased Shaq out of town (who is the main reason they won those 3 rings) and couldnt win with Malone and Payton. I remember that JORDAN was the one who came into the league and opposing coaches and players felt that he was embarassing the league, while KOBE came into the league young and embarassed himself (missed 3 3pt shots in a row in the clutch in the playoffs). In some games, Kobe has had more turnovers than assists and even on occasions, more turnovers than points. This is the guy that is trying to be compared with Jordan. Even Phil Jackson in an interview this year said that Kobe may be as skilled as Jordan, but has never had to deal with winning by himself and that Jordan never had as many skilled versatile players as Kobe has had in his career. This year Kobe may have won MVP, but th more deserved player would have to be Chris Paul. Chris Paul doesnt have the same level cast of which Kobe has, yet he uses teamwork to propel his team into and through the playoffs. He is their leader. Kobe may be the leader of the Lakers, but the one guiding his team is Derek Fisher. Compare Kobe's 08 average of 28.3ppg, 6.3 rpg, & 5.4apg to Chris Paul's 21.1ppg, 4rpg, 11.6apg. with each assist and rebound counting for 2 points, Kobe has a total of 50 pts attributed to his team with points, assists and rebounds and Chris Paul has 51pts on a less talented team and an unproven coach when compared to Phil Jackson. So if Kobe isn't even really the winner of the MVP this year (should have got 2nd in the voting), then how can he even compare to Jordan who was always unquestionably the MVP of the years he won championship rings with a less talented team than Kobe always had?! Jordan should have even won the MVP the year that Malone won over him, since Jordan lead the Bulls to the best record in the league, had better stats, and won the championship and NBA FINALS MVP. And Kobe didnt win a championship ring the year that Shaq left. Jordan came back after 1 1/2 years away from basketball and won 3 more championships in his next full season. Kobe hasnt won a championship without Shaq and even now, he still has a better supporting cast than Jordan ever had. This year may be the Lakers year, but Kobe has a long way to go before he even gets close to what Jordan was.

Even at age 40, Jordan still did great. Against 20 year olds like Kobe, he still averaged 20 points per game, 5 rebounds, and 5 assists per game and had 50+ scoring games. At age 40, Jordan was still the star player amongst players such as Larry Hughes, Richard Hamilton, Jerry Stackhouse and the disappointing Kwame Brown. Jordan won scoring titles, MVPs, Finals MVPs, ALL NBA 1st teams in defense and offense and a defensive player of the year in the years he lead his team to a ring. Kobe hasnt done all that. Kobe's even 2nd this year to Lebron in scoring title. Kobe hasnt even got defensive title of the year, and Jordan earned it with Ewing, Mourning, Mutumbo, Olajuwon, Pippen, Payton (the Glove), against Shaq, Bruce Bowen, Ron Artest, the "Bad Boys" Pistons and so forth in their primes. Kobe has the potential to be as great as MJ, but he hasnt proven to be there yet. When he wins rings without having more of a supporting cast than MJ had, then he could be there. He's still not as good as MJ was great in the clutch. I remember Kobe missing more clutch shots than MJ and more of other people making the clutch shots for the Lakers (RObert Horry, Shaq, Derek Fisher), which Kobe only assisted to Shaq once for a clutch shot) For the BUlls, it was Jordan who made the clutch shots and made clutch plays. In the year of 98, when in the Finals, he scored a layup in less than 4 seconds, stolte the ball from Malone and made the game winning shot to win the series and the CHAMPIONSHIP! Has Kobe ever done that?! Oh thats right, its a resounding HELL NO! So Kobe is good, but Jordan is still the pinnacle of basketball excellence.

Kobe is a great player, but he has never done or dealt with the things Jordan has. Jordan played in an era where touch fouls didnt exist (remember the Pistons). Jordan never had arguably the most dominating center in the league in an offense that was designed for a center (the triangle offense. Even now Kobe has a better team, with centers who could rebound and shoot 3s and a good roster all the way to the injured list. Jordan had people who were specialized in an area such as Steve Kerr for 3pts, but they cant do the things Kobe's team can do now. Jordan had Pippen, but Jordan made Pippen as good as he was. Compare Pau Gasol and Luc Longley, I'd take Pau on my team, but Jordan never had that, and yet he still got his. Jordan prevented legendary players from getting titles (Ewing,Barkley, Stockton, Malone, Wilkins, Mourning, David Robinson, Tim Hardaway, Allen Iverson, and Kobe and Shaq and so forth.(Olajuwon got his titles after Jordan left for 1 1/2 yrs)
And 81 points vs Toronto (1 of the worst teams that year) in a regular season game doesnt compare to Jordan's 63 points in a semifinals playoff game vs the legendary Larry Bird and his Celtics in Jordan's 2nd year of the league (the same year Jordan missed most of the season due to a near career-ending injury)http://en.wikipedia.org /wiki/Michael_Jordan. Has Kobe even come close to that? Kobe is a great player, but dont compare someone who has had more help, done less, still makes bad game decisions, and in his 12th season just learned to be part of the team. He chased Shaq out of town (who is the main reason they won those 3 rings) and couldnt win with Malone and Payton. I remember that JORDAN was the one who came into the league and opposing coaches and players felt that he was embarassing the league, while KOBE came into the league young and embarassed himself (missed 3 3pt shots in a row in the clutch in the playoffs). In some games, Kobe has had more turnovers than assists and even on occasions, more turnovers than points. This is the guy that is trying to be compared with Jordan. Even Phil Jackson in an interview this year said that Kobe may be as skilled as Jordan, but has never had to deal with winning by himself and that Jordan never had as many skilled versatile players as Kobe has had in his career. This year Kobe may have won MVP, but th more deserved player would have to be Chris Paul. Chris Paul doesnt have the same level cast of which Kobe has, yet he uses teamwork to propel his team into and through the playoffs. He is their leader. Kobe may be the leader of the Lakers, but the one guiding his team is Derek Fisher. Compare Kobe's 08 average of 28.3ppg, 6.3 rpg, & 5.4apg to Chris Paul's 21.1ppg, 4rpg, 11.6apg. with each assist and rebound counting for 2 points, Kobe has a total of 50 pts attributed to his team with points, assists and rebounds and Chris Paul has 51pts on a less talented team and an unproven coach when compared to Phil Jackson. So if Kobe isn't even really the winner of the MVP this year (should have got 2nd in the voting), then how can he even compare to Jordan who was always unquestionably the MVP of the years he won championship rings with a less talented team than Kobe always had?! Jordan should have even won the MVP the year that Malone won over him, since Jordan lead the Bulls to the best record in the league, had better stats, and won the championship and NBA FINALS MVP. And Kobe didnt win a championship ring the year that Shaq left. Jordan came back after 1 1/2 years away from basketball and won 3 more championships in his next full season. Kobe hasnt won a championship without Shaq and even now, he still has a better supporting cast than Jordan ever had. This year may be the Lakers year, but Kobe has a long way to go before he even gets close to what Jordan was

repeat 3-peat

Basketball Fanatic wrote:

Kobe is a great player, but he has never done or dealt with the things Jordan has. Jordan played in an era where touch fouls didnt exist (remember the Pistons). Jordan never had arguably the most dominating center in the league in an offense that was designed for a center (the triangle offense. Even now Kobe has a better team, with centers who could rebound and shoot 3s and a good roster all the way to the injured list. Jordan had people who were specialized in an area such as Steve Kerr for 3pts, but they cant do the things Kobe's team can do now. Jordan had Pippen, but Jordan made Pippen as good as he was. Compare Pau Gasol and Luc Longley, I'd take Pau on my team, but Jordan never had that, and yet he still got his. Jordan prevented legendary players from getting titles (Ewing,Barkley, Stockton, Malone, Wilkins, Mourning, David Robinson, Tim Hardaway, Allen Iverson, and Kobe and Shaq and so forth.(Olajuwon got his titles after Jordan left for 1 1/2 yrs)
And 81 points vs Toronto (1 of the worst teams that year) in a regular season game doesnt compare to Jordan's 63 points in a semifinals playoff game vs the legendary Larry Bird and his Celtics in Jordan's 2nd year of the league (the same year Jordan missed most of the season due to a near career-ending injury)http://en.wikipedia.org /wiki/Michael_Jordan. Has Kobe even come close to that? Kobe is a great player, but dont compare someone who has had more help, done less, still makes bad game decisions, and in his 12th season just learned to be part of the team. He chased Shaq out of town (who is the main reason they won those 3 rings) and couldnt win with Malone and Payton. I remember that JORDAN was the one who came into the league and opposing coaches and players felt that he was embarassing the league, while KOBE came into the league young and embarassed himself (missed 3 3pt shots in a row in the clutch in the playoffs). In some games, Kobe has had more turnovers than assists and even on occasions, more turnovers than points. This is the guy that is trying to be compared with Jordan. Even Phil Jackson in an interview this year said that Kobe may be as skilled as Jordan, but has never had to deal with winning by himself and that Jordan never had as many skilled versatile players as Kobe has had in his career. This year Kobe may have won MVP, but th more deserved player would have to be Chris Paul. Chris Paul doesnt have the same level cast of which Kobe has, yet he uses teamwork to propel his team into and through the playoffs. He is their leader. Kobe may be the leader of the Lakers, but the one guiding his team is Derek Fisher. Compare Kobe's 08 average of 28.3ppg, 6.3 rpg, & 5.4apg to Chris Paul's 21.1ppg, 4rpg, 11.6apg. with each assist and rebound counting for 2 points, Kobe has a total of 50 pts attributed to his team with points, assists and rebounds and Chris Paul has 51pts on a less talented team and an unproven coach when compared to Phil Jackson. So if Kobe isn't even really the winner of the MVP this year (should have got 2nd in the voting), then how can he even compare to Jordan who was always unquestionably the MVP of the years he won championship rings with a less talented team than Kobe always had?! Jordan should have even won the MVP the year that Malone won over him, since Jordan lead the Bulls to the best record in the league, had better stats, and won the championship and NBA FINALS MVP. And Kobe didnt win a championship ring the year that Shaq left. Jordan came back after 1 1/2 years away from basketball and won 3 more championships in his next full season. Kobe hasnt won a championship without Shaq and even now, he still has a better supporting cast than Jordan ever had. This year may be the Lakers year, but Kobe has a long way to go before he even gets close to what Jordan was

(YAWNS) are you finished?

Kobe Bryant still has several chapters left before his masterpiece of a career is finished. Lets save this debate for a later day.