NBC sports chief believes USOC hurting Chicago's bid for 2016 O...

Ut oh, Mr. Richie Rich Daley, Allison Davis, Robert Vanecko, Rezmar Board members and hundreds of others! Will you be indicted before or after the games?
Memo to the USOC and IOC: Everything, and I do mean everything, is for sale in Chicago - for the right price, of course, citizens be damned. The people who live in Chicago and Crook County are not anti Olympics per se. It is all about the rampant CORRUPTION that we witness every stinkin' day.

Hedgehog, Fullerton and NIUHuskie,

You are from Hammond, Lake Zurich and Aurora, respectively. All three of you are pro-Games. All the posters from the city proper are against.

No, it's not even close to a scientific poll. So do any reliable, reputable polls exist that can give us a clue? If so, please post a link.

When you live outside the city, you lose some perspective on what it's like with Daley as your mayor. Ok, I'm gonna focus on the negative here, but we can't handle potholes. We create an uproar over parking meters. We bring in Millennium Park dramatically over budget and FOUR YEARS LATE.

I ride the CTA Blue Line to the Loop daily. We had slow zones (6 MPH) a few years ago, and then the CTA trumpeted that all was fixed. Now we have slow zones again, though not sure why. You want to add a million visitors to the mix for three weeks to tax a system that has operated poorly for decades?

And yes the state has committed $250 mil, and yes I know cost overruns are inherent in any major undertaking, but other Olympic cities have experienced overruns in the billions.

My fear is that Daley's bottom-of-the-ninth mentality, coupled with the incredible leverage the unions will wield as the Games approach, will make a financial shambles of the city, and quite possibly make us an international poster child for other cities not bidding for the Games in 2028, 2032 et al.

I've lived in Chicago (AND the suburbs!) my entire life and would be quite proud if we could pull off the Olympics in any fashion even remotely close to what Daley and Ryan are pitching. But it's like Alfonso Soriano running out a ground ball: While theoretically possible, it's highly unlikely.

(And Huskie, if you want to participate in an intelligent discussion, please dispense with the namecalling. Thanks.)

NIUHuskie: Your use of the asterisk is so clever. I think you are the angry one. You may not recognize it, but I am trying to use facts and logic to expose the lack of logic behind these games. However, you are so simple minded that you think anyone who disagrees with you is just an angry minority.

But I suppose you are right to an extent. I am angry that my tax dollars are being misused. I apologize if you are offended by my concern that our leaders can do better and find better ways to use our tax money. I apologize if you are offended that already putting $750 million of my tax dollars toward the Olympics when our schools, social services, and infrastructure is already underfunded. I apologize if you are offended that people are being laid off because the state and city don't have enough money to provide services, yet they have enough money to chase a money-losing venture like the Olympics. There is no way to talk around the simple fact that the Olympics will be misdirecting tax dollars and public services away from things we tax payers really want and need.

The most telling poll number is that 75% of Chicagoans are against the games if they require tax dollars. The thing is, it already has cost $750 million and will almost surely cost more still.

And CCC, thanks for linking to that Trib poll, which was posted while I was writing my comment.

Ok, so that poll indicates most people would like the Games here, and most don't want to be taxed to pay for them. So based on whether we believe Daley/Ryan or not, where does that leave us?

Good poll question would be "Do you think Daley is telling the truth?"

Rick wrote:

...Chicagoans do not want the games.

CCC wrote:

People, let us start with facts.
Feb 09 poll of Chicago area residents shows 2/3 support: http://archives.chicagotribune.com/2009/feb/0...
IOC independent polling shows Chicago a 67% support--10% less than the bid committee claims, ranking third of four candidates in local support: http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/chi-17-i...
The fact is that there is majority support, with substantial taxpayer concern about how it is going to be paid for.

Ten bucks says Rick doesn't let facts get in the way of his opinions.

Jim OBrien in Wicker Park wrote:

Hedgehog, Fullerton and NIUHuskie,
You are from Hammond, Lake Zurich and Aurora, respectively. All three of you are pro-Games. All the posters from the city proper are against.
No, it's not even close to a scientific poll. So do any reliable, reputable polls exist that can give us a clue? If so, please post a link.
When you live outside the city, you lose some perspective on what it's like with Daley as your mayor. Ok, I'm gonna focus on the negative here, but we can't handle potholes. We create an uproar over parking meters. We bring in Millennium Park dramatically over budget and FOUR YEARS LATE.
I ride the CTA Blue Line to the Loop daily. We had slow zones (6 MPH) a few years ago, and then the CTA trumpeted that all was fixed. Now we have slow zones again, though not sure why. You want to add a million visitors to the mix for three weeks to tax a system that has operated poorly for decades?
And yes the state has committed $250 mil, and yes I know cost overruns are inherent in any major undertaking, but other Olympic cities have experienced overruns in the billions.
My fear is that Daley's bottom-of-the-ninth mentality, coupled with the incredible leverage the unions will wield as the Games approach, will make a financial shambles of the city, and quite possibly make us an international poster child for other cities not bidding for the Games in 2028, 2032 et al.
I've lived in Chicago (AND the suburbs!) my entire life and would be quite proud if we could pull off the Olympics in any fashion even remotely close to what Daley and Ryan are pitching. But it's like Alfonso Soriano running out a ground ball: While theoretically possible, it's highly unlikely.
(And Huskie, if you want to participate in an intelligent discussion, please dispense with the namecalling. Thanks.)

I lived in Chicago for 39 years and still work there. Having a Daley as Mayor is still fresh in my mind. You complain about the condition of the CTA but fail to realize that part of the costs are going to be for upgrades to the very things you claim to be more important than the Olympics. The Olympics give business a reason to offset the massive costs of upgrading infrastructure that the taxpayers would bear alone if not for the Olympics. Or, you can look at it with blinders on and miss all the peripheral advantages.

Cant wait to go to Rio for the Olympics.

Hedgehog: The fact is that people don't want tax dollars used. Tax dollars have been used already and more is guaranteed to cover shortfalls. There are estimates that the federal government will spend $1 billion on security. I have opinions but they are backed up by facts and a view to the entire picture of the diversion of tax dollars and city/state/federal resources these games will misdirect.

Granted the poll says that people asked do not want tax dollars to cover shortfalls, but I would argue most people don't realize tax money has already been spent and more will be spent. If people were asked, "Are you OK with $45 million in tax money being spent on the Olympics?" I can guarantee you a majority would oppose the games. Most of these polls were conducted before the city and state started laying off workers and cutting services. And it still does not answer the fact that TIF money and proceeds from the leasing of our various public assets is also going to be used for the games.

Lastly, I still argue that if the mayor and business community worked as hard for public schools, public services, and public infrastructure as they have for the Olympics, we wouldn't want or need the Olympics.

Read the facts here:

http://archives.chicagotribune.com/2009/feb/0...

"But 75 percent of all those surveyed said they were against the use of tax money to cover any financial shortfalls."

"When the Tribune asked about using taxes to cover any Olympics deficits, 75 percent were opposed and 23 percent were in favor. Most of those surveyed—54 percent—also did not believe that private money would cover all the cost"

"Chicago will have to pay about $45 million for city services such as street cleaning to support the Olympics. The city also has pledged property tax revenue to cover infrastructure improvements for the planned Olympic village. The federal government is expected to spend $1 billion or more on security."

good news-too bad lil' richie d. can't suppress negative olympic news NO TO CHI TOWN 2016

AEM wrote:

Nobody seems to care that the vast majority of the people here in Chicago DO NOT WANT THE GAMES HERE !!

Most people want the games here. Smart people want the games here. Only idiots like you don't want them here. As long as Chicago can break even, and it should be able to, the Olympics will bring new infrastructures to Chicago and New Jobs over the next decade. Making Chicago into a World Class city is only a bonus.

The Hedgehog wrote:

<quoted text>
I lived in Chicago for 39 years and still work there. Having a Daley as Mayor is still fresh in my mind. You complain about the condition of the CTA but fail to realize that part of the costs are going to be for upgrades to the very things you claim to be more important than the Olympics. The Olympics give business a reason to offset the massive costs of upgrading infrastructure that the taxpayers would bear alone if not for the Olympics. Or, you can look at it with blinders on and miss all the peripheral advantages.

Mr. Hedgehog,
Look no farther than the O'Hare contractors, subcontractors, various contracts and political hires and you maybe you will understand why there is opposition to the games. O'Hare has been a cash cow for the "machine" and the "outfit." I have yet to see or read anything coming from the Chicago 2016 group that would assure, much less guarantee, that the Olympics would not be another O'Hare scam. Off topic - would the Olympic buildings be roofless now that Mr. Kelly is in the slammer? Oh, and since Harris entered a guilty plea, does that mean his brother is not allowed to bid on Olympic contracts? Does Ochal want a new job? So many questions (and there are many more) that are not allowed to be asked, let alone answered.

Go Rio!

Rick wrote:

NIUHuskie: Your use of the asterisk is so clever. I think you are the angry one. You may not recognize it, but I am trying to use facts and logic to expose the lack of logic behind these games. However, you are so simple minded that you think anyone who disagrees with you is just an angry minority.
But I suppose you are right to an extent. I am angry that my tax dollars are being misused. I apologize if you are offended by my concern that our leaders can do better and find better ways to use our tax money. I apologize if you are offended that already putting $750 million of my tax dollars toward the Olympics when our schools, social services, and infrastructure is already underfunded. I apologize if you are offended that people are being laid off because the state and city don't have enough money to provide services, yet they have enough money to chase a money-losing venture like the Olympics. There is no way to talk around the simple fact that the Olympics will be misdirecting tax dollars and public services away from things we tax payers really want and need.
The most telling poll number is that 75% of Chicagoans are against the games if they require tax dollars. The thing is, it already has cost $750 million and will almost surely cost more still.

Rick, I didn't use the asterisk. Topix has decided that I cannot call you a m-o-r-o-n. It's not a particularly dirty word, and I do feel that it's applicable to people who would rather argue about where an ISP is at than the facts at hand. Alas, Topix disagrees.

Rick wrote:

TIFs, parking meters, leasing the Skyway, and trying to lease Midway are all part of Daley's plan to sock away money for the games. Chicagoans are losing billions of dollars (and services) so Daley can have his games. And he's willing to write a blank check to the IOC to cover shortfalls. The insurance policy that Daley has taken out to cover some of the potential shortfalls is not free.
Chicagoans do not want the games.

TIF's happen everywhere. Chicago has no monopoly on the use of TIF's. You can argue that TIF's are bad until you're blue in the face, but they encourage development in areas that would most likely not happen otherwise.

The parking meters keep getting brought up, and I agree, that seemed like a bad deal. But stop applying it to everything else going on in the city. Besides, it's early and no one can tell how successful leasing out the meters will be.

The Skyway has been brought up a few times too, and yet I'm not sure why. The Skyway is running very well..have you driven it lately? Smooth pavement, few backups, it's not a bad drive. The tolls are a little high, but they always have been, even before the Skyway was leased out.

You can also keep saying that Chicagoans don't want the games until you're blue in the face. The point is, if opposition were truly as high as you say it is then the USOC would have never selected Chicago as the U.S. candidate for the Olympics and the city would not still be in the running. Public opinion does mean something in the bid, and they don't rely on internet polls or Tribune message boards.

pukes

Jim OBrien in Wicker Park wrote:

<quoted text>
No, the vast majority do NOT want the games. Talk to homeowners who live in the city. Truth is, it's an overwhelming no.
The majority of support is from the suburbs, whose residents won't see their towns bankrupted by this lunacy the way we stand to here in the city.
Hey, I got an idea! Let's have the suburbs on the hook too! Does that change your mind?

Wait, wait, wait. People in the suburbs want the Olympics? It's the suburbs state tax dollars on the hook, and suburbanites will have to cope with the same traffic and logistics nightmares of hosting the games. We - city, suburbs, downstate - are mostly united on this one. Very few people want the games.

Now, there ARE people who want the games - people posting on this board from the mayor's office because they're told to, politicians looking for handouts and donations to get Olympics contracts, people who are politically connected and will get the lucrative, overpriced contracts, and union hacks who are looking forward to getting paid $125 an hour for 40 hours a week to actually do 4 hours of work.

I don't know what makes anyone think that the city of Chicago can do anything on time and on budget (like Millennium Park... oh, wait...). Unless, of course, you're a complete idiot, and blindly trust Mayor Chucky and his cronies to do right by the citizens of Chicago.(HA!)

NIUHuskie wrote:

<quoted text>
The point is, if opposition were truly as high as you say it is then the USOC would have never selected Chicago as the U.S. candidate for the Olympics and the city would not still be in the running. Public opinion does mean something in the bid, and they don't rely on internet polls or Tribune message boards.

The USOC selected Chicago because of Mayor Daley, President Obama, and a lot of money. That's how the world works.

Public opinion doesn't matter one bit. Politicians care about two things: getting re-elected and making themselves rich. Don't be so naive as to believe that the City of Chicago cares one bit about its citizens or what they think.

Jim OBrien in Wicker Park wrote:

<quoted text>
No, the vast majority do NOT want the games. Talk to homeowners who live in the city. Truth is, it's an overwhelming no.
The majority of support is from the suburbs, whose residents won't see their towns bankrupted by this lunacy the way we stand to here in the city.
Hey, I got an idea! Let's have the suburbs on the hook too! Does that change your mind?

The suburbs and the rest of the state will be on the hook and bankrupted when the already destitute state of Illinois will inevitably chip in non-existent money toward what you rightfully describe as lunacy. If Daley and his cronies want to bear the entire financial burden of the games, then fine, but a state that can't adequately fund education, roads, public safety and other essential services in good financial times has no business chipping in a single cent to one delusional mayor's pipedream.

Hedgehog: At the end of the day I don't care about your ISP address. You or someone else who agrees with you made the accurate point that state tax dollars are being used for the games (and federal dollars). So, I'll bring you into the same fold as those of us who live in the city. It only makes my arguments stronger, though. We're all already paying for the games. We're all being tapped for this dubious public expenditure. NONE of what you have said, though, answers any of my arguments that this is misguided public policy. You're reduced to name calling because you have nothing else to stand on. I can see you standing there with your eyes closed tight, fingers in ears, shouting "moron, moron, moron!!"

If we're all honest, nobody has any real idea of whether this would be a money maker or loser. And, of course, it depends very much on how you measure whether money was made or lost.

What we absolutely know, though, is what "whatever" has pointed out. The Daley administration is rife with corruption. If that's not enough, the Mayor has already made dubious decisions to lease public assets and create TIF districts to siphon property taxes from their intended purposes to his hidden slush funds. He was also prepared to write a blank check to the IOC until the City Council showed just a little backbone to slow him down. The blank check will probably be signed anyway at a later date. Anyone with his or her eyes open knows the likelihood is exceptionally high that the tax payer is going to get screwed in the end.

And again, I say, the thing that is most disappointing is the incredible effort of the mayor and business community to make these games a reality. Why can't they put the same effort into the normal operations of the city so that we don't have to use the Olympics as the inspiration to do what they should be doing anyway?

Hedge, I suspect we're more in agreement than in disagreement. Would I like to see the games here? Yes. Would I like to be taxed to pay for them? Well, I wouldn't mind if there were some reasonable assurance of a ceiling on that amount, but considering the smoke being blown out of City Hall, I have zero confidence.

I think where we disagree is on Daley/Ryan. You think the benefits will outweigh the costs. Ok, fair enough. That's possible, it's just giving Daley a blank checkbook that I object to. If we had a Ueberroth-type to run the Games, or a Bloomberg-type as mayor, I'd be on board. We have neither.