The Brady Manning Debate - Fuel to the Fire

TMD wrote:

<quoted text>
Your argument would have some merit if:
1) Brady REALLY had "bad" receivers to throw to. Deion Branch was MVP of the Super Bowl back in 2003, and David Givens, Troy Brown, and David Patten were outstanding route runners and YAC guys. Let's also not forget Ben Watson and Daniel Graham, both first round draft picks and very good TEs.
2) We could actually see what Harrison, Wayne, and Clark would do on other teams.
I guess you're not familiar with Peyton's early WRs and TEs - Dilger, Pollard, Green, Pathon, and Wilkins, who did almost nothing when they left the Colts.
3) If the defenses on the Pats and the Colts were comparable.
Manning has not had the luxury of SB caliber defenses most of his career, "Tom" has. Neither has "Tom" had to carry a team the way Manning has. The one year when he did, the Pats didn't even make it to the playoffs (2002).
The game you referred to where Peyton threw 6 INTs was, indeed, pretty bad. What you failed to mention was that he was playing with 1 starter, R. Wayne, 2 of his second string receivers, Aaron Moorehead and Bryan Fletcher, and a practice squad receiver, Craphonso Thorpe, who was added just hours before game time. "Tom" hasn't ever had to do that.
You also failed to mention that the Colts would have won that game had it not been for a kickoff and punt returned for TDs, and Vinatieri missing a 29 yard FG.
"Tom" would have done no better with the Colts than Manning has as is evidenced by his performance in the most recent SB. Putting pressure on Brady has the same effect as putting pressure on Manning - bad throws and lack of production.
No one is buying the whole "Tom"-walks-on-water crap anymore. He was exposed in the SB.

After all is said and done on this issue, I'd love to see what Ben could do with either of their offensive lines. Dudes running for his life every sunday and puts up the numbers he did, while Manning and Brady on most weeks are enjoying a nice lunch buffet while scanning the field for who they want to throw to when their damn good and ready. Scary to think of what his numbers would look like with the rec. groups as well. Must be nice to play eeny- meany- miny- moe on most pass plays.

Jopa-n wrote:

<quoted text>After all is said and done on this issue, I'd love to see what Ben could do with either of their offensive lines. Dudes running for his life every sunday and puts up the numbers he did, while Manning and Brady on most weeks are enjoying a nice lunch buffet while scanning the field for who they want to throw to when their damn good and ready. Scary to think of what his numbers would look like with the rec. groups as well. Must be nice to play eeny- meany- miny- moe on most pass plays.

Point taken.

Just remember that even in Manning's first 2 seasons he put up very big numbers (some of which are NFL records for a rookie) with a less than stellar O-line or receiving crew. Harrison was in his second year, and Wayne hadn't been drafted yet. The other guys I mentioned in my first post were mediocre, at best. The O-line was terrible and the Colts went 3-13 and 13-3.

Even now, the O-line is less dependable than it has been in years. The sacrifices made to build a pass-first O-line have really hurt the run game.

I think Pitt's problem is the exact opposite. The O-line appears to have been built to support a run-first offense. The guys aren't nearly as good at pass blocking as they are at run blocking. The Steelers are known widely for their run game, but not-so-much for their passing game, at least, not for a long time until Big Ben was drafted.

Why is it that Pitt refuses to hold on to their best receivers? I mean, it's great to have confidence in your ability to draft future stars, but wouldn't it be easier to just keep the proven talent you have?

TMD wrote:

<quoted text>
Your argument would have some merit if:
1) Brady REALLY had "bad" receivers to throw to. Deion Branch was MVP of the Super Bowl back in 2003, and David Givens, Troy Brown, and David Patten were outstanding route runners and YAC guys. Let's also not forget Ben Watson and Daniel Graham, both first round draft picks and very good TEs.
2) We could actually see what Harrison, Wayne, and Clark would do on other teams.
I guess you're not familiar with Peyton's early WRs and TEs - Dilger, Pollard, Green, Pathon, and Wilkins, who did almost nothing when they left the Colts.
3) If the defenses on the Pats and the Colts were comparable.
Manning has not had the luxury of SB caliber defenses most of his career, "Tom" has. Neither has "Tom" had to carry a team the way Manning has. The one year when he did, the Pats didn't even make it to the playoffs (2002).
The game you referred to where Peyton threw 6 INTs was, indeed, pretty bad. What you failed to mention was that he was playing with 1 starter, R. Wayne, 2 of his second string receivers, Aaron Moorehead and Bryan Fletcher, and a practice squad receiver, Craphonso Thorpe, who was added just hours before game time. "Tom" hasn't ever had to do that.
You also failed to mention that the Colts would have won that game had it not been for a kickoff and punt returned for TDs, and Vinatieri missing a 29 yard FG.
"Tom" would have done no better with the Colts than Manning has as is evidenced by his performance in the most recent SB. Putting pressure on Brady has the same effect as putting pressure on Manning - bad throws and lack of production.
No one is buying the whole "Tom"-walks-on-water crap anymore. He was exposed in the SB.

Your argument sounded good for a little bit, and I give you credit as you are the first to actually sound as if you had any intelligence coming from Indy (as opposed to 18 and DONE, etc....). however, it would have some merit if "all" your facts weren't so distorted and misconstrued.

You mentioned alot, but you neglected to mention the fact that ONLY Peyton Manning has made the point of calling out the rest of his team as excuses for HIS own ultimate failures for winning -- which goes to show you some light on his own personal character as a PLAYER and PERSON of who Archie has raised; so I guess Peyton's "walk-on-water crap may hold water in your neck of the woods, but not in the rest of the country. He is the laughing stool amongst all QBs for the rest of us...

http://www.youtube.com/watch...

Nothing but a "sellout", working in a nice environmental conditioned DOME all year round, eh?!! Must be nice not having to fight against mother nature's elements, on top of the opposing team and "lack of receivers" and "O-Line", as Peyton so eloquently put it back in the day for his sorry-ass excuse for not getting the job done. And let's look at where some of those first round drafts, who have since been cut from the Pats, are TODAY, along with the others -- not much to write about now, is there?!! "Peyton" didn't have to play with a mediocre team for a whole season and make the best of it, as Brady did; and actually become a contender in the meantime of doing so, did he?!! Believe it or not, Peyton Manning's days of "walking on water" are OVER, as the rest of the country has seen the difference between him and other QBs who have to work with much less talent and strive to do better, and have accomplished that, for that fact. Numbers will tell it all when all is said and done. I, along with a lot of others, are fully confident that Brady will fair far much better than Manning, even if he has to play in the outdoor elements all year round -- count 'em up..., the SB rings aren't over yet -- 1, 2, 3, and counting.

What a d-bag.

TMD wrote:

<quoted text>
Your argument would have some merit if:
1) Brady REALLY had "bad" receivers to throw to. Deion Branch was MVP of the Super Bowl back in 2003, and David Givens, Troy Brown, and David Patten were outstanding route runners and YAC guys. Let's also not forget Ben Watson and Daniel Graham, both first round draft picks and very good TEs.
2) We could actually see what Harrison, Wayne, and Clark would do on other teams.
I guess you're not familiar with Peyton's early WRs and TEs - Dilger, Pollard, Green, Pathon, and Wilkins, who did almost nothing when they left the Colts.
3) If the defenses on the Pats and the Colts were comparable.
Manning has not had the luxury of SB caliber defenses most of his career, "Tom" has. Neither has "Tom" had to carry a team the way Manning has. The one year when he did, the Pats didn't even make it to the playoffs (2002).
The game you referred to where Peyton threw 6 INTs was, indeed, pretty bad. What you failed to mention was that he was playing with 1 starter, R. Wayne, 2 of his second string receivers, Aaron Moorehead and Bryan Fletcher, and a practice squad receiver, Craphonso Thorpe, who was added just hours before game time. "Tom" hasn't ever had to do that.
You also failed to mention that the Colts would have won that game had it not been for a kickoff and punt returned for TDs, and Vinatieri missing a 29 yard FG.
"Tom" would have done no better with the Colts than Manning has as is evidenced by his performance in the most recent SB. Putting pressure on Brady has the same effect as putting pressure on Manning - bad throws and lack of production.
No one is buying the whole "Tom"-walks-on-water crap anymore. He was exposed in the SB.

OK, I guess I kind of agree with you on this. But I DON NOT AGREE WITH YOU ABOUT TOM BRADY'S DEFENSE!!!!!!!!!!

-EVERY YEAR HE HAS BEEN ON THAT TEAM THE PATRIOTS DEFENSE HAD BEEN AMUNGST THE TOP 5 IN THE LEAGUE IN MULTIPLE CATAGORIES!!!!!

So as far as I'm concerned, Peyton has proven he can win with a bad defense, and well TOM BRADY AIN'T WORTH A SHIT WITH A BAD DEFENSE. Which for the record, due to TONS OF KEY LOSSES ON THE PATS PART could show next season!!!!!!!!!!

And for the record, NO ONE IN THE NFL HAS EVER HAD AS GOOD A RECIEVING CORE AS TOM BRADY LAST SEASON!!!!!!!!!!

Laser RocketArm wrote:

<quoted text>You mentioned alot, but you neglected to mention the fact that ONLY Peyton Manning has made the point of calling out the rest of his team as excuses for HIS own ultimate failures for winning -- which goes to shed some light on his own personal character as a PLAYER and PERSON of who Archie has raised; so I guess Peyton's "walk-on-water crap may hold water in your neck of the woods, but not in the rest of the country. He is the laughing stool amongst all QBs for the rest of us...

I don't share your view. I think he was stating the obvious, as did the team and most of the press. Regardless, I fail to see what this has to do with the subject at hand.

.

Nothing but a "sellout", working in a nice environmental conditioned DOME all year round, eh?!! Must be nice not having to fight against mother nature's elements, on top of the opposing team and "lack of receivers" and "O-Line", as Peyton so eloquently put it back in the day for his sorry-ass excuse for not getting the job done.

I think you fail to understand that the Colts only play half of their games in the dome. NE only plays half of their games in Foxboro. They don't play all of their games in the snow and howling rain, just as the Colts don't play all their games in an air-conditioned dome.

Besides, if you have a problem with this, or think the Colts have an unfair advantage, maybe you and your minions can petition Kraft to build a DOME so your Pats can play indoors, as well.

I think I've already commented on the whole "lack of receivers" comment. Just stating the obvious. If your team is so fragile that they can't stand hearing the truth, then they're playing in the wrong league. Maybe they should try Pee-Wee football.

.

And let's look at where some of those first round drafts, who have since been cut from the Pats, are TODAY, along with the others -- not much to write about now, is there?!!

All those people I mentioned played very well while with the Pats. What's happened to them since was not my premise, and is not my concern.

.

"Peyton" didn't have to play with a mediocre team for a whole season and make the best of it, as Brady did; and actually become a contender in the meantime of doing so, did he?!!

I've already mentioned Manning's first 2 seasons in the NFL. The Colts had a worst than mediocre team. They had an awful team, and an awful coach. Despite Manning's best effort (an NFL record rookie season) the Colts went 3-13. The next season with about the same team the Colts went 13-3, the biggest turnaround in NFL history. So much for Manning not being able to make a contender out of a mediocre team.

.

Believe it or not, Peyton Manning's days of "walking on water" are OVER, as the rest of the country has seen the difference between him and other QBs who have to work with much less talent and strive to do better, and have accomplished that, for that fact.

Really? Name one other active QB who has done better than Manning with less. One.

.

Numbers will tell it all when all is said and done. I, along with a lot of others, are fully confident that Brady will fair far much better than Manning, even if he has to play in the outdoor elements all year round -- count 'em up..., the SB rings aren't over yet -- 1, 2, 3, and counting.
What a d-bag.

Your confidence is commendable, but foolish. It would take a miracle for Brady to catch up to Manning's numbers at this point in his career. It is commonly predicted that, at his current pace, Manning will own ALL of the QB records when his career comes to an end.

You know, people who have to resort to name calling to make their point, really don't have a point..

http://www.youtube.com/watch...

Damn thats fun to watch!!!!

SteelMcbeil wrote:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v =TuA4YvH2hj8
Damn thats fun to watch!!!!

You said it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch...

"It's kinda hard to play quarterback with no receivers."

BWAHAHAHAHAHAAHA!

SteelMcbeil wrote:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v =TuA4YvH2hj8
Damn thats fun to watch!!!!

OK, first off just ignore LaserRocketArm from MA. He is a Patriots fan who ovously didn't start paying any attention to his team till after they won their second SB.

Now with that being said, I think that video of Tom Brady is pretty durn funny. But since it uses music from a band who's lead singer died in 2002. I think this video is honestly better, because it uses a song actually written by the person who sings it:

http://www.youtube.com/watch...

PS.
Although I'm not saying the your video is a bad one I think the guy who made this video put a bit more effort into it.

Go Colts!!!!!!!!!!

18anDONEwithoutCHEATING wrote:

<quoted text>
OK, first off just ignore LaserRocketArm from MA. He is a Patriots fan who ovously didn't start paying any attention to his team till after they won their second SB.
Now with that being said, I think that video of Tom Brady is pretty durn funny. But since it uses music from a band who's lead singer died in 2002. I think this video is honestly better, because it uses a song actually written by the person who sings it:
http://www.youtube.com/watch...
PS.
Although I'm not saying the your video is a bad one I think the guy who made this video put a bit more effort into it.
Go Colts!!!!!!!!!!

But it sure don't beat 18 and DONE's remake of "Two Girls One Cup". Now that was some messed up vid. Go check it out, google "Two Girls One Cup + YouTube" to go check it out. 18 and DONE is a STAR, a LEGEND in the compulsive fetishist world, if you're into that kind of stuff. It's posted all over Topix via other blogs. You two should get along just fine...

http://www.youtube.com/watch...

LOL.

LaserRocketArm wrote:

<quoted text>
But it sure don't beat 18 and DONE's remake of "Two Girls One Cup". Now that was some messed up vid. Go check it out, google "Two Girls One Cup + YouTube" to go check it out. 18 and DONE is a STAR, a LEGEND in the compulsive fetishist world, if you're into that kind of stuff. It's posted all over Topix via other blogs. You two should get along just fine...
http://www.youtube.com/watch...
LOL.

So, 18* and DONE without cheating is a US LEGEND!!!!!!!!!!

So there!!!!!!!!!!

18anDONEwithoutCHEATING wrote:

<quoted text>
So, 18* and DONE without cheating is a US LEGEND!!!!!!!!!!
So there!!!!!!!!!!

BWAHAHAHAAHAHAHA!!!!

If that's a LEGEND; you can have it, dude. Congratulations to YOU! King of the freaks!

Momma must be real proud of ya', for this production, eh?!!

http://www.vewgle.com/showthread.php...

http://video.google.com/videoplay...

Is this how you unemployed from the trailor park, or living in your momma's basement, spend the afternoons??? Life must be good, eh?!!

LOL. What a TOOL.

18anDONEwithoutCHEATING wrote:

<quoted text>
So, 18* and DONE without cheating is a US LEGEND!!!!!!!!!!
So there!!!!!!!!!!

Looking real good, buddy... REAL GOOD!

LMAO!

Your just mad cause you team lost and everyone else in the world is happy.

18anDONEwithoutCHEATING wrote:

Your just mad cause you team lost and everyone else in the world is happy.

I believe it was the PACERS who last last and choked by not making it to the first round of the playoffs -- typical fashion of all Indiana sports teams.

LOL.

18anDONEwithoutCHEATING wrote:

Your just mad cause you team lost and everyone else in the world is happy.

We were forced to "throw" the last game of the season for the sake of the league and you think we're unhappy? We had already slapped the Giants upside the head once...what was the sense in doing it again...America loves a good show and letting them win on the last play of the game I feel was admirable...

on a side note...I heard a rumour going around Indy that in order to better "connect" with his fans this year, Peyton will in a publicity stunt, have all his teeth extracted but three...any truth to this...?

skidrow wilson wrote:

<quoted text>
We were forced to "throw" the last game of the season for the sake of the league and you think we're unhappy? We had already slapped the Giants upside the head once...what was the sense in doing it again...America loves a good show and letting them win on the last play of the game I feel was admirable...
on a side note...I heard a rumour going around Indy that in order to better "connect" with his fans this year, Peyton will in a publicity stunt, have all his teeth extracted but three...any truth to this...?

Doesn't matter you still got beat by a better team. Also I heard that Tom Brady, Teddy Bruschi, Rodney Harrison, Mike Vrabel, and Adalias Thomas were all being suspended next season for being steroid addics!!!!!!!!

face it dude, your team is nothing more then 18* and DONE without CHEATING, which means with that fat bastard Belitits coach of theirs!!!!!!!!!!

18anDONEwithoutCHEATING wrote:

<quoted text>
Doesn't matter you still got beat by a better team. Also I heard that Tom Brady, Teddy Bruschi, Rodney Harrison, Mike Vrabel, and Adalias Thomas were all being suspended next season for being steroid addics!!!!!!!!
face it dude, your team is nothing more then 18* and DONE without CHEATING, which means with that fat bastard Belitits coach of theirs!!!!!!!!!!

...put down the meth, brush your tooth and get some sleep...

18anDONEwithoutCHEATING wrote:

<quoted text>
please please stop smoking Kevin Faulk's crack.

...speaking of crack, the gibberish you've penned here certainly makes one ponder the sad effects of the drug in Indy...

18anDONEwithoutCHEATING wrote:

<quoted text>
Well, if you think your team is going to be 15-1 then your have got to be on the same type of Crack/Cocane and Darrel Strawberry!!!!!!!!!

I'm glad to see you're not letting your education get in the way of your ignorance.

18anDONEwithoutCHEATING wrote:

<quoted text>
Are you English or retarded, please please stop smoking Kevin Faulk's crack.

Al Qaeda declares 'failure and defeat' for Colts.

Tell us something we don't already know...