Aug. 6Nature article questions anti-doping testsIn a new article in...

BERRY BLASTS French SCIENCE...

OH my trees and rivers!

Too darn bad this wasn't published a year or so ago... analysis follows (Monday, more than likely...)

{whatever might Raymond say to this? Or his cousin? or even Jacques de Sorrys?}

ZENfuturesafer

i was emailed the contents of the article, so will analyse and report back via my WADAwatch blog by mid-week next...

ZENgone

ZENmud wrote:

BERRY BLASTS French SCIENCE...
OH my trees and rivers!
Too darn bad this wasn't published a year or so ago... analysis follows (Monday, more than likely...)
{whatever might Raymond say to this? Or his cousin? or even Jacques de Sorrys?}
ZENfuturesafer

...I read that too last nite,I wonder what CHRISpullzitforfun will have to say about this...Cheers!

Oh, Poo, Poo!!! I just want to see if Raymond or Chris will even respond to this one.

He just basically covered and revalidated what most of us have brought up here in the past from our indpendent research along with help from Jon explaining the science and ZENman explaining the legality. And he also covered a lot of what the three European independent research groups reported that I kept bringing up here recently and in the beginning.

Cheers Men

My Opinion_El Paso_TX wrote:

Oh, Poo, Poo!!! I just want to see if Raymond or Chris will even respond to this one.
He just basically covered and revalidated what most of us have brought up here in the past from our indpendent research along with help from Jon explaining the science and ZENman explaining the legality. And he also covered a lot of what the three European independent research groups reported that I kept bringing up here recently and in the beginning.
Cheers Men

...Sanjay Gupta had something to say on this on CNN this morning,it will probably be repeated several times,CHRISpullzitalot should watch for it...Cheers!

My Opinion_El Paso_TX wrote:

Oh, Poo, Poo!!! I just want to see if Raymond or Chris will even respond to this one.
He just basically covered and revalidated what most of us have brought up here in the past from our indpendent research along with help from Jon explaining the science and ZENman explaining the legality. And he also covered a lot of what the three European independent research groups reported that I kept bringing up here recently and in the beginning.
Cheers Men

Yes, interesting, there will probably be other article contradicting this on, but of course if there is and you 'Landis' supporters read it, you will NOT put it on this forum. WILL YOU?
Of course there is always doubt, but usually the truth comes out. I and many others believe that FL cheated, that is my opinion and you should respect it, I respect yours.
I said many months ago, that I cheered FL on all the way on #17 BUT the moment he crossed the line, I said "Oh no it looks as if he has taken something" up until that moment I was so happy for him.
Anyway, it is finished and so is he (maybe)

Athos wrote:

<quoted text>Yes, interesting, there will probably be other article contradicting this on, but of course if there is and you 'Landis' supporters read it, you will NOT put it on this forum. WILL YOU?
Of course there is always doubt, but usually the truth comes out. I and many others believe that FL cheated, that is my opinion and you should respect it, I respect yours.
I said many months ago, that I cheered FL on all the way on #17 BUT the moment he crossed the line, I said "Oh no it looks as if he has taken something" up until that moment I was so happy for him.
Anyway, it is finished and so is he (maybe)

Chris, have you actually read the entire article? Or are you just spinning your wheels here again?

Sorry to disappoint you Chris, but I haven't found any literature supporting the process that was conducted at LNDD so far. Otherwise I would have posted it here.

The three European reseach groups that I have mentioned several times here that reported similar information to this scientist, one was from the United Kingdom, one was from Belgium, and the third one I cannot remember what country it was from.

The man is a real scientist. Sorry, but the Univerity of Texas at Austin is a very excellent university and they don't hire idiots for professors there.

You have attacked Jon in not being a scientist, yet you have repeatedly ignored the three research groups from Europe. So, you're telling everyone that your research group there in the UK are a bunch of stupid idiots.

You want us to respect your opinions. Now that is really funny considering how you have continued attacking everyone here and then you begged for peace.

Respect is earned Chris. You want respect, than research and supoort your opinions/arguments like the rest of us have taken time doing. I don't have respect for anyone who just jumps onto the band wagon with blinders and stereotypical mentality.

My Opinion_El Paso_TX wrote:

<quoted text>
Chris, have you actually read the entire article? Or are you just spinning your wheels here again?
Sorry to disappoint you Chris, but I haven't found any literature supporting the process that was conducted at LNDD so far. Otherwise I would have posted it here.
The three European reseach groups that I have mentioned several times here that reported similar information to this scientist, one was from the United Kingdom, one was from Belgium, and the third one I cannot remember what country it was from.
The man is a real scientist. Sorry, but the Univerity of Texas at Austin is a very excellent university and they don't hire idiots for professors there.
You have attacked Jon in not being a scientist, yet you have repeatedly ignored the three research groups from Europe. So, you're telling everyone that your research group there in the UK are a bunch of stupid idiots.
You want us to respect your opinions. Now that is really funny considering how you have continued attacking everyone here and then you begged for peace.
Respect is earned Chris. You want respect, than research and supoort your opinions/arguments like the rest of us have taken time doing. I don't have respect for anyone who just jumps onto the band wagon with blinders and stereotypical mentality.

Read and answer ALL of my post MOEP. Are you saying that FL is innocent? Or Maybe guilty, or what? I have told you my thoughts, I don't understand what you mean by 'earning respect' I am not going to 'research' on the web until I find something that I like, then put it on here, without PROOF, that is what it seems to me a lot of you do.
Ok The lab made mistakes, every lab would have been hounded by someone who thought a Mennonite was beyond reproach, get real, he cheated, he has been found guilty (again)
Jon the scientist? I have still not seen his credentials, except for a web surfer

only a bloody idiot would accept as 'true' that it costs over SIX MILLION DOLLARS to defend 'perfect science'.

That fact alone, and in the additional light of the article in the great British scientific journal Nature (Which spends time discussing how WADA changed the IOC Med-com 6:1 ration to the now-famous 4:1 ratio, which author Donald Berry claims went in the **wrong direction**), proves the WADAwatch point:

Inquisitions are not healthy processes to 'inculpate' someone, when, as I wrote (in the 'voice' of WADA):

"It's our house, our rules, our members, our CODE, our evidence, our experts, our arbitrators, our justice, and OUR DECISION: of course Landis is guilty."

I also realize, that, at two pages, the article in NATURE is probably way too long and too complex for some on this topix to understand (I'm the first to cringe at statistics, and Berry is a master of them, in the best sense possible).

Some people on this forum, are surely and demonstrably the offspring of generations of witch-burners, Flat-Earthers, Don't Bother Me With The TRUTH'ers...

But I no longer pity them: the difference between stupidity and ignorance is a question of moral and intellectual choice.

ZENjd
(anybody with an email address can have a copy of the Nature article (requires (at their site) a subscription))

go see tbv site for copies of Berry-SMART-World... heh heh

zenAGAIN

BUT was he innocent????

...of course he IS!

Athos wrote:

BUT was he innocent????

How many more times are you going to ask that question Chris?

It's quite apparent that you don't know the answer!

Certainly interesting that you didn't have the courage to address your research group there in the UK!

My Opinion_El Paso_TX wrote:

<quoted text>
How many more times are you going to ask that question Chris?
It's quite apparent that you don't know the answer!
Certainly interesting that you didn't have the courage to address your research group there in the UK!

When am I going to get a truthfull answer MOEP? You SEEM to BELIEVE he is innocent. I BELIEVE he is guilty. That is fine, I do NOT have to tell you any recerch group in the UK, It is MY opinion (EL Yatton) and that is that

Athos wrote:

<quoted text>When am I going to get a truthfull answer MOEP? You SEEM to BELIEVE he is innocent. I BELIEVE he is guilty. That is fine, I do NOT have to tell you any recerch group in the UK, It is MY opinion (EL Yatton) and that is that

...well Bully for you, BTW....Viva Espagna, Sanchez WON, Canadian Michael Barry was 9th.,some of thr Brits dropped out like Flies,oh well it was 30c and 90 something humidity.I was in that area last year and it is quite spectacular and hilly.I climbed 5 gates of the Great Wall but had to head back down as our Bus was leaving...Cheers!

Athos wrote:

<quoted text>When am I going to get a truthfull answer MOEP? You SEEM to BELIEVE he is innocent. I BELIEVE he is guilty. That is fine, I do NOT have to tell you any recerch group in the UK, It is MY opinion (EL Yatton) and that is that

I've always been truthful here Chris. And I've given you a truthful answers every time.

What I find interesting with you Chris, is that you have always avoided any questions that I have provided you. Yet, you come in here and demand answers from me.

I think that you may be confusing things here Chris. I'm not trying to change your mind or your opinion. I'm just trying to understand your opinions.

Anyone can state: they're guilty or they're not guilty. But, why does someone believe this.

Will was the only one in your group who really explained his reasoning.

My Opinion_El Paso_TX wrote:

<quoted text>
I've always been truthful here Chris. And I've given you a truthful answers every time.
What I find interesting with you Chris, is that you have always avoided any questions that I have provided you. Yet, you come in here and demand answers from me.
I think that you may be confusing things here Chris. I'm not trying to change your mind or your opinion. I'm just trying to understand your opinions.
Anyone can state: they're guilty or they're not guilty. But, why does someone believe this.
Will was the only one in your group who really explained his reasoning.

I think it was only last week that I told you that.."I cheered FL as much as anyone (more than some)" BUT as soon as he crossed the line, my heart sank, and I thought "Oh no, I hope I am wrong but it looks as if he has taken something" I didn't need the Internet, I didn't need a science degree. It was/is experience. You can scoff, you can tell me to look back at old posts, but in the end I was RIGHT, sad to say

Gus wrote:

<quoted text>
...well Bully for you, BTW....Viva Espagna, Sanchez WON, Canadian Michael Barry was 9th.,some of thr Brits dropped out like Flies,oh well it was 30c and 90 something humidity.I was in that area last year and it is quite spectacular and hilly.I climbed 5 gates of the Great Wall but had to head back down as our Bus was leaving...Cheers!

I see that the PRAT Brits dropped out, I didn't see anything on the BBC about the race, a pity that, as I don't want to see just the bits that we are any good at (Maybe that is losing we are good at!!!)

Athos wrote:

<quoted text>I see that the PRAT Brits dropped out, I didn't see anything on the BBC about the race, a pity that, as I don't want to see just the bits that we are any good at (Maybe that is losing we are good at!!!)

...I saw quite a chunk,pretty boring stuff.

The riders who droped out were the ones who rode support for their team mates. You could easily see the thick smog in the air where the cyclists rode.

Great Britian won their heat in the four man rowing. When you viewed the horizon behind them, the air was thick with smog.