Discrimination against gays unfair

In his letter "Discrimination against gays unfair" Harry Brown makes an erroneous affirmation that homosexuals are born that way.

Research projects done by Dr. Simon Levay, a practicing homosexual, have been commonly misinterpreted to support this conclusion. In his book, "The Sexual Brain," Dr. Levay said that there are "subtle, but significant differences" between the brain structures of homosexual and normal men.

To comment on this letter, click on "Comments" below

"To many people" Dr. Levay says, "finding a difference in brain structure between gay and straight men is equivalent to proving that [homosexuals] are 'born that way.' Time and again I have been described as someone who 'proved that homosexuality is genetic,' or some such thing. I did not."

Dr. Levay then goes on to explain that the brain is a very malleable organ whose structure is changed by repeated activity. Since the adults he studied had already been sexually active for some time, the change in their brain was likely the effect rather than the cause of homosexual activity.

People like Harry Brown who desperately desire to find an excuse for homosexuality will no doubt look upon this letter with displeasure. They will continue to argue that the brain of a homosexual is different. The reason for this difference however, is not because they were "born that way," but because they engage in an abnormal brain-altering behavior.

This behavior can be corrected as is proven by Dr. Joseph Nicolosi. He is the founder of the National Association for Research and Therapy of Homosexuality (NARTH) and his reparative therapy has proven to be highly effective for those struggling with this disorder.

People like Harry Brown should do some research into the issue before labeling people "dangerous" who don't accept their "born that way" politically correct view of homosexuality. Such an intolerant and unchristian attitude gets us no where.

Norman Fulkerson
Spring Grove

Gays, whether they want to be married or not, is by fair the least important issue for the upcoming election. But, if you ask gays, it is the most important thing in the world. Then they feel even more "SPECIAL".

Let's face it, we need to work on several things in this country before we ever consider gay marriages. We have crime that is unbelieveable, we still have a war going on, we have an economy that is in the toilet. These things need to be first and foremost, before the fags and dikes get the right to get married.

One way that homosexual marriage effects heterosexuals is by normalizing homosexuality in our culture. Some may argue that this would present a confusing ethical conundrum to our young people in their formative years. It's easy to "live and let live" when it's theory, it's quite a different matter when we foist philosophical beliefs on our youngsters that may be damaging to their psyche; in all fairness, the same may be said of Judeao-Christian ethic as well from those in opposition to this perspective.

I'm gonna test Dr. Levay's theory. Will be visiting the mall each afternoon, lookin at boy's hineys. Just to see if it affects my brain. But those girls thingys keep popping into my head. Will have to break myself of that habit. Stand-by for further reports on my progress.

Norman Fulkerson wrote:

In his letter "Discrimination against gays unfair" Harry Brown makes an erroneous affirmation that homosexuals are born that way.
Research projects done by Dr. Simon Levay, a practicing homosexual, have been commonly misinterpreted to support this conclusion. In his book, "The Sexual Brain," Dr. Levay said that there are "subtle, but significant differences" between the brain structures of homosexual and normal men.
To comment on this letter, click on "Comments" below
"To many people" Dr. Levay says, "finding a difference in brain structure between gay and straight men is equivalent to proving that [homosexuals] are 'born that way.' Time and again I have been described as someone who 'proved that homosexuality is genetic,' or some such thing. I did not."
Dr. Levay then goes on to explain that the brain is a very malleable organ whose structure is changed by repeated activity. Since the adults he studied had already been sexually active for some time, the change in their brain was likely the effect rather than the cause of homosexual activity.
People like Harry Brown who desperately desire to find an excuse for homosexuality will no doubt look upon this letter with displeasure. They will continue to argue that the brain of a homosexual is different. The reason for this difference however, is not because they were "born that way," but because they engage in an abnormal brain-altering behavior.
This behavior can be corrected as is proven by Dr. Joseph Nicolosi. He is the founder of the National Association for Research and Therapy of Homosexuality (NARTH) and his reparative therapy has proven to be highly effective for those struggling with this disorder.
People like Harry Brown should do some research into the issue before labeling people "dangerous" who don't accept their "born that way" politically correct view of homosexuality. Such an intolerant and unchristian attitude gets us no where.
Norman Fulkerson
Spring Grove

And you are full of feces!

you are a liar

Norman Fulkerson wrote:

In his letter "Discrimination against gays unfair" Harry Brown makes an erroneous affirmation that homosexuals are born that way.
Research projects done by Dr. Simon Levay, a practicing homosexual, have been commonly misinterpreted to support this conclusion. In his book, "The Sexual Brain," Dr. Levay said that there are "subtle, but significant differences" between the brain structures of homosexual and normal men.
To comment on this letter, click on "Comments" below
"To many people" Dr. Levay says, "finding a difference in brain structure between gay and straight men is equivalent to proving that [homosexuals] are 'born that way.' Time and again I have been described as someone who 'proved that homosexuality is genetic,' or some such thing. I did not."
Dr. Levay then goes on to explain that the brain is a very malleable organ whose structure is changed by repeated activity. Since the adults he studied had already been sexually active for some time, the change in their brain was likely the effect rather than the cause of homosexual activity.
People like Harry Brown who desperately desire to find an excuse for homosexuality will no doubt look upon this letter with displeasure. They will continue to argue that the brain of a homosexual is different. The reason for this difference however, is not because they were "born that way," but because they engage in an abnormal brain-altering behavior.
This behavior can be corrected as is proven by Dr. Joseph Nicolosi. He is the founder of the National Association for Research and Therapy of Homosexuality (NARTH) and his reparative therapy has proven to be highly effective for those struggling with this disorder.
People like Harry Brown should do some research into the issue before labeling people "dangerous" who don't accept their "born that way" politically correct view of homosexuality. Such an intolerant and unchristian attitude gets us no where.
Norman Fulkerson
Spring Grove

Norman Fulkerson wrote:

In his letter "Discrimination against gays unfair" Harry Brown makes an erroneous affirmation that homosexuals are born that way.

I've asked this 1,000 times and have never once gotten a response so maybe you can clue me in.
Why would someone choose to be gay? Maybe discrimination is cool, maybe violence is "in" all of a sudden or maybe they just like being told God hates them.

mdckmn wrote:

One way that homosexual marriage effects heterosexuals is by normalizing homosexuality in our culture. Some may argue that this would present a confusing ethical conundrum to our young people in their formative years. It's easy to "live and let live" when it's theory, it's quite a different matter when we foist philosophical beliefs on our youngsters that may be damaging to their psyche; in all fairness, the same may be said of Judeao-Christian ethic as well from those in opposition to this perspective.

Normalizing homosexuality is not damaging to anyone's psyche. Kids are a lot smarter and understand a lot more, intuitively, than you give them credit for.

What is damaging to a youngsters psyche is teaching them all that it is such a terrible thing. Then when some 12yo realizes that he spends more time looking at the boys than the girls, well the rampant homophobia and hate in our society do him instant and terrible mental and emotional harm.

Telling a kid that the way he/she naturally feels is "abomination" is what is damaging to his/her psyche.

Now, would God really want to do that to a child?

No, but God wasn't queer.

Completely independent issues. Extending marriage equality would not distract from more important things if the opponents of fairness (hiding behind "tradition") were honest that they are really homophobes and just be quiet about something that has no impact on them.

c3daddyo wrote:

Gays, whether they want to be married or not, is by fair the least important issue for the upcoming election. But, if you ask gays, it is the most important thing in the world. Then they feel even more "SPECIAL".
Let's face it, we need to work on several things in this country before we ever consider gay marriages. We have crime that is unbelieveable, we still have a war going on, we have an economy that is in the toilet. These things need to be first and foremost, before the fags and dikes get the right to get married.

You are so wrong, it isn't funny.

<funny>There is no such thing as "practicing homosexual" - we have the skill well developed</funny>

On a serious note, causality of homosexuality (nature vs. nurture) is irrelevant to public discourse. We protect religious and political choices, which are truly choice-based.

All credible research shows that gay and lesbian people are normal in medical and psychological terms, allowing for the expected problems that stem from blatant discrimination. The correct solution should be to fix the bigots. As the old saying goes, "your freedom ends where my nose begins". The anti-Gay position would rope off and exclude Gay and Lesbian persons from equality on the grounds that they don't like it. You should just ignore what others do unless you can show a real harm from Gays and Lesbians.. Which you can't, because there is none.

Norman Fulkerson wrote:

In his letter "Discrimination against gays unfair" Harry Brown makes an erroneous affirmation that homosexuals are born that way.
Research projects done by Dr. Simon Levay, a practicing homosexual, have been commonly misinterpreted to support this conclusion. In his book, "The Sexual Brain," Dr. Levay said that there are "subtle, but significant differences" between the brain structures of homosexual and normal men.
To comment on this letter, click on "Comments" below
"To many people" Dr. Levay says, "finding a difference in brain structure between gay and straight men is equivalent to proving that [homosexuals] are 'born that way.' Time and again I have been described as someone who 'proved that homosexuality is genetic,' or some such thing. I did not."
Dr. Levay then goes on to explain that the brain is a very malleable organ whose structure is changed by repeated activity. Since the adults he studied had already been sexually active for some time, the change in their brain was likely the effect rather than the cause of homosexual activity.
People like Harry Brown who desperately desire to find an excuse for homosexuality will no doubt look upon this letter with displeasure. They will continue to argue that the brain of a homosexual is different. The reason for this difference however, is not because they were "born that way," but because they engage in an abnormal brain-altering behavior.
This behavior can be corrected as is proven by Dr. Joseph Nicolosi. He is the founder of the National Association for Research and Therapy of Homosexuality (NARTH) and his reparative therapy has proven to be highly effective for those struggling with this disorder.
People like Harry Brown should do some research into the issue before labeling people "dangerous" who don't accept their "born that way" politically correct view of homosexuality. Such an intolerant and unchristian attitude gets us no where.
Norman Fulkerson
Spring Grove

Ziggy on High wrote:

<quoted text>
Normalizing homosexuality is not damaging to anyone's psyche. Kids are a lot smarter and understand a lot more, intuitively, than you give them credit for.
What is damaging to a youngsters psyche is teaching them all that it is such a terrible thing. Then when some 12yo realizes that he spends more time looking at the boys than the girls, well the rampant homophobia and hate in our society do him instant and terrible mental and emotional harm.
Telling a kid that the way he/she naturally feels is "abomination" is what is damaging to his/her psyche.
Now, would God really want to do that to a child?

O.K. We're all entitled to our opinion. I am in no way suggesting that people should abuse each other, but people are entitled to their own ethical position. I've raised 5 children, and 2 others not mine; I provided a homosexual man room and board in my own home for 2 years, and although I disagree with the practice of homosexuality, I don't devalue the person;this man is like a son to me. I have simply not become convinced that homosexuality is a healthy alternative lifestyle, so my opinion, for what it's worth is that this issue should be handled in the home, and not to push for widespread acceptance of the practice. As for God, I don't speak for Him. I think that His word is fairly clear, but He certainly doesn't need me to defend His position.

Gary47 wrote:

Completely independent issues. Extending marriage equality would not distract from more important things if the opponents of fairness (hiding behind "tradition") were honest that they are really homophobes and just be quiet about something that has no impact on them.<quoted text>

When you guys say "homophobes" what do you actually mean? Is it anyone who is opposed to homosexuality philosophically for any reason at all?

mdckmn wrote:

One way that homosexual marriage effects heterosexuals is by normalizing homosexuality in our culture. Some may argue that this would present a confusing ethical conundrum to our young people in their formative years.

I disagree. Firstly, with your use of the word 'normalizing'. If we view the word 'normal' without all the emotional baggage, it's a statistical term. I don't know of anyone who is advocating that homosexuality should replace heterosexuality as the norm.

A better word would perhaps be destigmatizing, which can hardly be argued to present young people in their formative years with a 'confusing ethical conundrum'. If anything, it should help eliminate the confusion that arises from indoctrinating children with the false perception that their orientation is wrong/evil/bad/immoral/(insert similar negative adjectives here ad infinitum) if it's directed toward the same-sex.

We aren't saying that children should choose homosexuality over heterosexuality. We're saying their sexuality should be allowed to develop without screwing up the small minority who are same-sex oriented by brainwashing them with bigotry that denigrates that orientation.

mdckmn wrote:

It's easy to "live and let live" when it's theory, it's quite a different matter when we foist philosophical beliefs on our youngsters that may be damaging to their psyche

But that's exactly what's being done to homosexually oriented youth.

mdckmn wrote:

<quoted text> When you guys say "homophobes" what do you actually mean? Is it anyone who is opposed to homosexuality philosophically for any reason at all?

It's an overused and abused term.

That said, I would assert that most opposition to homosexuality is really rationalized fear masquerading as 'philosophical differences'. It may not rise to the level of being a phobia, but can be fairly categorized as relying heavily on fallacious slippery slope arguments.

Which came first? The irrational fear of what would happen if homosexuals ceased to be marginalized? Or the 'philosophy' used to justify that marginalizaton?

Our opponents arguments are often peppered with words like 'Americans' and 'society' and 'taxpayers'- as if we weren't part of all three. Their language is all about exclusion, distancing, separation, etc.

Point it out to them, and you'll almost certainly be rewarded with a circular argument.

When most people say 'homophobe', they mean anti-gay. Whether or not those two things should be considered synonymous is open to debate.

Inquisitarian wrote:

<quoted text>
It's an overused and abused term.
That said, I would assert that most opposition to homosexuality is really rationalized fear masquerading as 'philosophical differences'. It may not rise to the level of being a phobia, but can be fairly categorized as relying heavily on fallacious slippery slope arguments.
Which came first? The irrational fear of what would happen if homosexuals ceased to be marginalized? Or the 'philosophy' used to justify that marginalizaton?
Our opponents arguments are often peppered with words like 'Americans' and 'society' and 'taxpayers'- as if we weren't part of all three. Their language is all about exclusion, distancing, separation, etc.
Point it out to them, and you'll almost certainly be rewarded with a circular argument.
When most people say 'homophobe', they mean anti-gay. Whether or not those two things should be considered synonymous is open to debate.

I guess that I'm a homophobe who isn't afraid of homosexuals and bears no malice toward them.

Inquisitarian wrote:

<quoted text>
I disagree. Firstly, with your use of the word 'normalizing'. If we view the word 'normal' without all the emotional baggage, it's a statistical term. I don't know of anyone who is advocating that homosexuality should replace heterosexuality as the norm.
A better word would perhaps be destigmatizing, which can hardly be argued to present young people in their formative years with a 'confusing ethical conundrum'. If anything, it should help eliminate the confusion that arises from indoctrinating children with the false perception that their orientation is wrong/evil/bad/immoral/(insert similar negative adjectives here ad infinitum) if it's directed toward the same-sex.
We aren't saying that children should choose homosexuality over heterosexuality. We're saying their sexuality should be allowed to develop without screwing up the small minority who are same-sex oriented by brainwashing them with bigotry that denigrates that orientation.
<quoted text>
But that's exactly what's being done to homosexually oriented youth.

I think that if we assume that homosexuality is innate, you're absolutely right. My experience hasn't taught me that. I know a young man who came to me homosexual as a direct result of the influence of another. He was tormented and left the lifestyle. I know teenagers who tell me that some kids in High School think that it's cool to experiment with bi-sexuality. For kids with the appropriate mental tenacity I suppose that wouldn't pose much of a problem; for others it may spell their demise. At the same time, one must address the needs of those who self identify as homosexual because to do otherwise would be cruel. But it's hardly a simple problem. And these issues are just the secular ones; the roots of this issue run deep, and how we handle it will have profound consequences.

McMike wrote:

<quoted text>
I've asked this 1,000 times and have never once gotten a response so maybe you can clue me in.
Why would someone choose to be gay? Maybe discrimination is cool, maybe violence is "in" all of a sudden or maybe they just like being told God hates them.

I think that it can be learned behavior.

Gary47 wrote:

You are so wrong, it isn't funny.
<funny>There is no such thing as "practicing homosexual" - we have the skill well developed</funny>
On a serious note, causality of homosexuality (nature vs. nurture) is irrelevant to public discourse. We protect religious and political choices, which are truly choice-based.
All credible research shows that gay and lesbian people are normal in medical and psychological terms, allowing for the expected problems that stem from blatant discrimination. The correct solution should be to fix the bigots. As the old saying goes, "your freedom ends where my nose begins". The anti-Gay position would rope off and exclude Gay and Lesbian persons from equality on the grounds that they don't like it. You should just ignore what others do unless you can show a real harm from Gays and Lesbians.. Which you can't, because there is none.<quoted text>

You know, of course, the acceptance of homosexuality in our culture is inevitable. Whether one views it as a victory or loss is irrelevant. I would just like those educators, who in their infinite wisdom feel it necessary to teach my teenage girls how to use a condom, might also consider teaching young homosexuals that it is just as acceptable to leave homosexuality as it is to embrace it. If a lifestyle brings mind torment it has brought harm, we shouldn't coerce either way.

further more people can talk until they turn blue but this is something that one never go away just like a black and white topic. I,m one to say this if their are two people that want to be togather they are going to be togather no matter what people say. what is the diffrents of living togather and not being married. people do this all the time. So if you are gay and you want to be togather be togather. this is your life and nobody has the right to say that you should not be togather. but do rember this it is written that man is for woman and woman for man so each of us has to answer to God for our own sins so if you think that beening gay is right then deal with it. that is on you.