Streetcars Coming to Grand Rapids?

I love how all the short-sighted neah-sayers plan the wreckage of the future of this possibility.

Remember when you all said the Van Andel arena was a horrible idea and where is everybody going to park? How about the certain failure of the Convention Center or how we don't need anymore downtown hotels, a law or a medical school.

This is a great idea for our city. Grand Rapids is headed to world class status, beyond our wildest expectations. All aboard.

The concept makes me raise and eyebrow... 70 million for 2 miles of track. That's quite expensive for a state with no money. However Grand Rapids is the only local economy growing in West Michigan at the moment. If Van Andel, DeVos, and all the new medical establishments either college or treatment based want a railsystem, let them pay for it, and make arrangements for the city to pay maintenace fees to grant public access, IF the fees are reasonable when compared to busing etc.

JinGR wrote:

I love how all the short-sighted neah-sayers plan the wreckage of the future of this possibility.
Remember when you all said the Van Andel arena was a horrible idea and where is everybody going to park? How about the certain failure of the Convention Center or how we don't need anymore downtown hotels, a law or a medical school.
This is a great idea for our city. Grand Rapids is headed to world class status, beyond our wildest expectations. All aboard.

I thought that Van Andel arena was a great idea. This one seems kind of stupid, especially now when not many people are taking advantage of public transportation.

It's another one of those "bright idea" mistakes that Grand Rapids is famous for. It will be on the same level as the awful Rosa Parks Circle - which is literally just a slab of concrete and an ampitheatre shell (which was there before all of the hoopla and wasted funds.) Taxpayers, once again, will cough up the money so that one of the local families or foundations can fluff themselves for having "originated" this wonderful concept. We cannot even afford to pay for the RAPID riders, and we want to have streetcars?!? Unless somebody is willing to give up their welfare stipends, and get a job to contribute to the tax base, I'd have to say that this is a lousy idea. I'm tired of paying.

RMV - hon, where did you hear that GR is "growing"? You'd better take a look at all of the rankings for not only our own state, but the Midwest. GR isn't doing well. You've bought the hype of some organization. This state is hurting. The "new construction" that you see in GR isn't paid for, and won't be for nearly thirty years. If you think that's a positive thing, just cut my share of the check for me. I'm tired of paying.

The buses are full - but, they're being supported by people who don't want to ride them. It costs much more than $1.30 for a real fare - knowing that the welfare crowd would feel "slighted" they include this as part of their transportation budget and discount on the taxpayer dime. It's the same for MIChild - I had a discussion with a woman while at a doctor's office. She was stupid enough to think that her whopping $1 per month covered what was needed for her FOUR children! She was so proud that she "pays her bills" until I informed her what a true DRAIN she is for those of us who WORK for a living! She said that she gets bad headaches and just couldn't keep a job. She enjoys watching Judge Judy and weighs about 350 pounds, and says that welfare is "necessary" for her and her kids, from three different men! Keep working folks, the welfare crowd is depending on us!

Leaving MI soon wrote:

The buses are full - but, they're being supported by people who don't want to ride them. It costs much more than $1.30 for a real fare - knowing that the welfare crowd would feel "slighted" they include this as part of their transportation budget and discount on the taxpayer dime. It's the same for MIChild - I had a discussion with a woman while at a doctor's office. She was stupid enough to think that her whopping $1 per month covered what was needed for her FOUR children! She was so proud that she "pays her bills" until I informed her what a true DRAIN she is for those of us who WORK for a living! She said that she gets bad headaches and just couldn't keep a job. She enjoys watching Judge Judy and weighs about 350 pounds, and says that welfare is "necessary" for her and her kids, from three different men! Keep working folks, the welfare crowd is depending on us!

Dear Leaving, This is EXACTLY the kind of situation that taxpayers are so extremely frustrated with. I'm sure that if there were a poll pertaining to how Michigan residents feel about the welfare program in our state, 90% or more would have the same opinion. Yes, welfare is needed. No we as taxpayers don't mind paying into such a program, it's meant to help those who need a "temporary" hand up. No, we don't want to continue to support the same people for generations because they're lazy. Get off your b u t t and get a job. Can't make it on one job, then get two. That's what we do as parents to take care of our children. Quit expecting everyone else to do it for you. Thanks Leaving. You said it perfectly.

Total annual ridership is up 15.2%, or 986,430 from FY05 (6,473,454) to FY06 (7,459,884)and on september 28th they hit the 8,000,000 riders mark for this year.

http://www.ridetherapid.org/about/reports/rid...

The city does not want to build this system for people on welfare. Streetcars have proven to attract young professionals to the city center and encourage development around the stations.

Taxpayer, Show me any skyscraper that was paid for with cash. No construction is paid for while being built or soon after. It is all financed.

Taxpayer wrote:

RMV - hon, where did you hear that GR is "growing"? You'd better take a look at all of the rankings for not only our own state, but the Midwest. GR isn't doing well. You've bought the hype of some organization. This state is hurting. The "new construction" that you see in GR isn't paid for, and won't be for nearly thirty years. If you think that's a positive thing, just cut my share of the check for me. I'm tired of paying.

I'm well aware of all of the job issues, as I work manufacturing. I have also seen alot of people struggle to find jobs. However, have you ever seen this much construction in this town? Think about the number of cranes on the skyline. All of this cronstuction is new jobs. All of these buildings will attract tenants. All of the new medical buildings, schools etc will attract new people, and growth in all industries.

Or we can go with your dire idea. The buildings will all be empty. The city will shut down, everyone will wander off and things will be covered in dust. No-one will be attracted to a bunch of negativity, boot straps people, grab your boot straps and start fixing things.

The streets in Grand Rapids are congested enough . I do not think much thought has really gone into this .
For all of you who like this idea , Do some investigation to other cities and see what there feelings are . Streetcars are cool but are not going to add to the economics to G.R.
I think the downtown would be better off with a small fleet of Double Decker Busses like in Chicago and other large cities . The Double Decker Bus is a great way for transportation and throw in a tour guide on some and becomes a great tourist attraction . I also think the maintenance would be a lot lower because now we are dealing with just one thing . Streetcars have track maintenance , car maintenance and many operational codes to follow . I hope someone considers all this .

FYI wrote:

Total annual ridership is up 15.2%, or 986,430 from FY05 (6,473,454) to FY06 (7,459,884)and on september 28th they hit the 8,000,000 riders mark for this year.
http://www.ridetherapid.org/about/reports/rid...
The city does not want to build this system for people on welfare. Streetcars have proven to attract young professionals to the city center and encourage development around the stations.
Taxpayer, Show me any skyscraper that was paid for with cash. No construction is paid for while being built or soon after. It is all financed.

Sure the ridership is at a certain level - but take out the DASH bus riders and GVSU Campus connector riders - get to the real numbers of people on the bus. It's not correct to count riders that are subsidized by GVSU and Grand Rapids Parking Services.

I would be willing to bet that with the DASH and Campus Connector riders out of the calculations - a different story will be told.

What a waste of taxpayer dollars. Michigan is slowly becoming a ghost state, why waste the money. Use it for education.

I will be amazed to see the growth with zero job growth. We are becoming a haven for illegals and the future does not look bright for those of us with decent paying jobs. I do not see GR becoming a tourist mecca either, the downtown still needs major clean up top get people to want to be there.

JinGR wrote:

I love how all the short-sighted neah-sayers plan the wreckage of the future of this possibility.
Remember when you all said the Van Andel arena was a horrible idea and where is everybody going to park? How about the certain failure of the Convention Center or how we don't need anymore downtown hotels, a law or a medical school.
This is a great idea for our city. Grand Rapids is headed to world class status, beyond our wildest expectations. All aboard.

Julie wrote:

I will be amazed to see the growth with zero job growth. We are becoming a haven for illegals and the future does not look bright for those of us with decent paying jobs. I do not see GR becoming a tourist mecca either, the downtown still needs major clean up top get people to want to be there.
<quoted text>

That's exactly what you said in 1992. Then a restaurant call San Chez opened then the BOB then dozens more. Downtown is now a vibrant destination. Pay attention. The area is shifting from just people who frequent to folks who are buying condos. The two will use effective downtown transportation.

If there was no job growth, we wouldn't have an illegals problem? Awaken to the opportunities, you're too comfortable with your decent paycheck.

JinGR wrote:

I love how all the short-sighted neah-sayers plan the wreckage of the future of this possibility.
Remember when you all said the Van Andel arena was a horrible idea and where is everybody going to park? How about the certain failure of the Convention Center or how we don't need anymore downtown hotels, a law or a medical school.
This is a great idea for our city. Grand Rapids is headed to world class status, beyond our wildest expectations. All aboard.

I have lived where they have street cars . I will say they are very high maintenence . I have seen city budgets struggle with the up-keep . Not to mention the amount of space they take from roadways and sidewalks . Grand Rapids may want to look at some other modes of transportation . Streetcars are not the answer. Do you understand the operating up keep they require ? The damage cause by Ice and Snow ? Why do you think many citys do not have them .

YOu've GOT to be kidding me. Mass transit from the outlying areas must come first. When this economy really starts tanking and Michigan starts to looks like Russia, only THEN will people used mass transit to get to their jobs and downtown entertainment.

I see a great deal of misinformation here, specific to the concept and economics. I encourage all of you to look at this streetcar in economic development terms. There is a great deal of merit in this current streetcar proposal.

This project will not be funded solely with taxpayer monies. The current proposal is to have a system mostly funded by private sponsorship.

Again, private donors know the line has incredible spin off investment opportunity. Some pegging this in leveraging hundreds of millions of dollars into the local economy -- translation -- jobs.

The possibility for job and economic growth is incredible. You can bet that local engineering and construction companies will be right up at the bidding line. Who is going to build a street car system? How about local contract crews. And yes even the streetcars can be made right here in the US of A. Why not partner local manufacturing so that they can produce these streetcars? There's a good bet that most of this great stuff will be provided for by local interests to keep that money here.

Instead of pegging this as a taxpayer black hole, why not see the other side of the coin. That this is a genuine opportunity to grow Grand Rapids and the greater metro area? There's a reason why the a lot of folks are rallying around this.

Taxpayer wrote:

RMV - hon, where did you hear that GR is "growing"? You'd better take a look at all of the rankings for not only our own state, but the Midwest. GR isn't doing well. You've bought the hype of some organization. This state is hurting. The "new construction" that you see in GR isn't paid for, and won't be for nearly thirty years. If you think that's a positive thing, just cut my share of the check for me. I'm tired of paying.

I work on top of Michigan Hill, the growth around me is real. your tax dollars are not funding any of the buildings goin up around me. VAI is adding on with their own money, DeVos Children's Hospital is funded through private donations and the Spectrum Health is funding the difference, the Cancer Center is nearly complete with no taxpayer money involved at all. The closest thing to any of "your money" going into this area may be MSU building a medical school here, and I believe that the Board of Trustees has approved long term bonds to pay for that. So your refund would be zip!

Wow -

This would be great for GR. In other cities that have done it has meant less traffic congestion and increased developement along the rail line. I think some type of lightrail or streetcar is much more appealing than buses. Which do you think is doing better: Chicago with its lightrail system, or detroit with its almost all bus system

Check out this story about portland experience with streetcars

http://www.rapidgrowthmedia.com/features/band...