Still no deal, GR teachers' union considers job action

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on a tangent wrote:

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Let's follow this logic out:
Firefighters work for the taxpayers
Policemen work for the taxpayers
Prison Guards work for the taxpayers
Road Builders work for the taxpayers
Let's take cuts and loss of benefits for all.
What do we get?
Watch our houses burn to the ground. Firefighters didn't become firefighters for the love of firefighting only.
Watch crime rise.
Policemen and women didn't join the force for the love of fighting crime only.
Watch prison breaks.
No one would do that job for less.
Could the roads here get any worse?
The point is, you get what you pay for. You keep beating the wrong horse. I know it's a popular horse to beat. I know the Kool Aid is easy to drink, because it goes down smooth. The waste is in the SYSTEM, not the pay & benefits. No one is getting rich from teaching.

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DobbyDo wrote:

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Of course you are clueless and an amazing simpleton. The teachers union is a major part of the problem because it refuses any accountability and it personally attacks the administration while itself doing beyond weird things.
If you want to use your doctor logic than let's really use it. The best doctors with the best education and best developed skills command the highest rates and people from all over the planet come to them.
If Paul Helder were a doctor would you want him treating your deadly cancer with his proven skill sets?????

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on a tangent wrote:

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Of course I am an amazing simpleton, because it is amazingly simple. But I am not clueless. You get what you pay for. And you don't want to pay. So don't - and see what you get. If you need a prediction, I can help with that too. There will be a giant sucking sound to the suburbs as real parents move there making GR a real third-world district for those who can't afford to move. Then you'll really have some test scores to brag about for the minimum wage teachers you've hired to put in Barney and Sesame Street videos all day.
You still didn't answer my question about how we're going to measure these merit increases for these underperforming schools. The answer is you can't, because it's not a matter of test scores only. These schools are social centers, not schools. They provide before school meals, counseling, intervention, and all sorts of other things not related to test scores just to get the kids there before they even begin to learn. Most suburban schools don't even have to go there. It's not a level playing field.

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on a tangent wrote:

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I haven't heard them ask for more, just not less. I don't doubt you love your job, but we all make choices as I said in my previous post. Teachers don't get the summers off, they are paid for 9-10 months or 180 days of work depending on how you want to break it down in their contract. So, I guess you're right in a sense. They're not working, but they're also not getting paid for that time. You may choose to spread your paycheck over that period if you so choose. Teachers also bring home work on a daily basis to do. I'm married to one, but not in GR, thank God.
Strikes are serious and aren't ever something to be taken lightly. NO ONE EVER WANTS ONE. I really hope that they can resolve their differences respectfully and collaboratively.
We all have to remember as people who work, that just because benefits are shrinking for us, doesn't mean that they must shrink for all. That's a "misery loves company" mindset that has gotten us all into this situation to begin with. We have all accepted less than we are worth in terms of benefits, pay, etc.. Look at where pay and perks are going. To the top, not to where the wealth is being generated, which is on YOUR back and the thousands of others who love their job every day. Don't just mindlessly accept less and beat those who say "no" just because everybody else is too.
We all deserve more than that.

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Buckboy wrote:

As time goes on I truly wonder if the the GRPS ceased to exist whether the net result would be the same as we have now. The students that succeed would succeed regardless and the other students would fall into the same lives that they would with the schools.
Family life & economic situation are such indicators of future success. I don't this the schools really change enough lives to justify the cost.

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OnMySoapBox wrote:

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It all comes back to the fact that you can't get blood from a turnip. Would I love a raise, better benefits, more vacation time? YES! However I am not selfish enough that I want these personal benefits to me to come at the expense of others. However if, as nurses, we all told the hospital either they were going to pay up or we would strike I know that we would either 1.) Put patients at risk b/c of an even greater nursing shortage or 2.) Cause health care costs to rise even more because of the increased expense of nurses wages.
In a perfect society everyone would get what they want...*knock knock* it's not perfect and the teachers, and obviously you as well, need to realize that. If the teachers get raises, or even continue to make the same, while not contributing any more to pay for their health insurance costs for operating the schools are going to rise. Do you know where that comes from? Taxpayers.

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DobbyDo wrote:

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Okay so lets give them all a raise, and now all will be well.....All the incomeptent teachers will start being competent and the Union will stop bashing the people they work for....That is just asinine. You must be a GRPS graduate!
Yup we should stop the outflow of kids and just make sure we curse every possible child we can to hell to satisfy you. I mean they are only human lives, why bother with them if their parents want to take them where they can learn....Let's be sure we keep the cycle of poverty and social disgrace just as big as possible.
Your comments about programs is simply has no valid premise. There is tons of support in every school almost everywhere.
And yes let's allow people to take their kids out until GRPS is absorbed by the surrounding Districts or broken up into smaller pieces where parents will truly have control and the Union is broken and crushed....Let the suburban teachers absorb the union as well at least we will get some better leadership there instead of Paul Helder and his Merry Men.

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DobbyDo wrote:

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Please how nutty is this? One secondary school in GRPS is making the grade....You think paying losers more works? The problem is you have to get rid of bad teachers which is nearly impossible. Let them prove their value then we'll talk raises. No one will mind paying more for taxes for real performance.

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on a tangent wrote:

<quoted text>
Let's follow this logic out:
Firefighters work for the taxpayers
Policemen work for the taxpayers
Prison Guards work for the taxpayers
Road Builders work for the taxpayers
Let's take cuts and loss of benefits for all.
What do we get?
Watch our houses burn to the ground. Firefighters didn't become firefighters for the love of firefighting only.
Watch crime rise.
Policemen and women didn't join the force for the love of fighting crime only.
Watch prison breaks.
No one would do that job for less.
Could the roads here get any worse?
The point is, you get what you pay for. You keep beating the wrong horse. I know it's a popular horse to beat. I know the Kool Aid is easy to drink, because it goes down smooth. The waste is in the SYSTEM, not the pay & benefits. No one is getting rich from teaching.

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on a tangent wrote:

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Are you nutty enough to think that one school is making the grade simply because of the teachers? You have to look at the raw materials (students), where they start from, and the conversion (graduation) rate. This is simple, urban mathematics. This is the cycle of poverty. You compare East Grand Rapids schools. Please. You are simple. Let them eat cake.

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Ouch wrote:

Kim,
You sound very bitter. If the attitude that you carry here is the attitude that you had when you left the messages at the schools, maybe that is why you did not receive a call back.
Do you realize how much work teachers have to take home? I doubt that it compares to many other jobs.
Did you know that teachers only get paid for the 6 hours of student contact each day, but that they do not get paid for preparing lessons, etc. Teachers are only paid for 30 hours a week, but the teachers that I work with work at least 50 hours a week and don't complain about it.
Most teachers are parents too! They also go to college to maintain their certificate and manage to spend time home as well raising their children.
From what I have heard, Dr. Taylor wants the teachers to work for an 6 extra hours a week without pay, on top of the 50 that they work. Wouldn't you argue with that too?
I don't think that it is fair to blame all of GRPS for your one bad experience. I tutor in many different GRPS schools and see wonderful things happening everyday. What I don't see is parents! Well, except for the few angry parents that come in to complain, but rarely to help!

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on a tangent wrote:

<quoted text>
Let's follow this logic out:
Firefighters work for the taxpayers
Policemen work for the taxpayers
Prison Guards work for the taxpayers
Road Builders work for the taxpayers
Let's take cuts and loss of benefits for all.
What do we get?
Watch our houses burn to the ground. Firefighters didn't become firefighters for the love of firefighting only.
Watch crime rise.
Policemen and women didn't join the force for the love of fighting crime only.
Watch prison breaks.
No one would do that job for less.
Could the roads here get any worse?
The point is, you get what you pay for. You keep beating the wrong horse. I know it's a popular horse to beat. I know the Kool Aid is easy to drink, because it goes down smooth. The waste is in the SYSTEM, not the pay & benefits. No one is getting rich from teaching.

Red_Fist wrote:

Ya those teachers really need to get off the Grand River bank huts they live in.
I am Soooo tired of being panhandled by those teachers, man they need at least $200k per month raise.
If they get that big raise mabye they will create D- students instead od F students.

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Kim wrote:

I work in the business world. I know how to handle a difficult situation. I was polite, yes I am bitter,but I handled myself very well. I never took my sons side until I couldn't get a return phone call or email.
After weeks of trying to reach either the teacher or the principal, the teacher finally told my son that he knew he didn't do anything wrong. Hello? who am I? I am his mother. Now why couldn't the teacher just call me to discuss this or set up a meeting with me? Nope never happened.
Yes I have brought home work that brought me up the 50 hours a week without getting paid for it. So don't tell me that it doesn't happen in the business world. I also don't make what the teachers make every year. That is being out of touch with reality. People that work in the Business world do work 50 - 60 hours a week on salary. That means no extra pay. We also have to keep our education up in the industry that we work in. We also don't get all the time off. I know several teachers that do very little during their time off in the summer until about 2 weeks before school starts to get their schedules ready.
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