WOOD-TV Grand Rapids and Michigan

Detroit: Big three deathwatch

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Steelie Joined: Feb 19, 2008 Comments: 976 Grand Rapids, MI	Reply » \| Report Abuse \| Judge it! \| #42 Oct 10, 2008 Good Day, Man you guys are getting good at sneaking posts in while I type! ;-) UATW - Indeed, a situation of many different facets. Although there are many factors, I think management does shoulder more than half of the total "blame". Julie and Hurley - also good points. When a Toyota is manufactured with more Amercan made parts than a Ford or GM vehicle... then what? I mean if one really wants to "buy American" they should buy a Toyota and not a Ford or GM car. Right? Blame NAFTA... Steelie
Rich S Joined: Apr 20, 2008 Comments: 422 Grand Rapids MI ISP: Hopkins, MI	Reply » \| Report Abuse \| Judge it! \| #43 Oct 10, 2008 I think they are big enough to survive. They, like Wall street, will be very, very different.
Jim B Grand Rapids, MI	Reply » \| Report Abuse \| Judge it! \| #44 Oct 10, 2008 Free trade at it's finest, Lets keep sending the technology, manufacturing and jobs that once made us leaders in the world to China. They have most of it now and will replace us soon. When they don't need us anymore. Boom! Steelie wrote: Good Day, KCGR, you may have a point on the rest of the nation joining in our despair. How I hope it is shortlived. I believe the markets will stabilize, particualarly once Europe gets their act together too. Union All The Way, hehe, I got a chuckle from that. But seriously, I do have concern that one or more of the former Big Three are in jeapordy of folding, being taken over by venture capitalists and sold off piece by piece or perhaps purchased by another auto company, any of which I would be willing to bet will result in quite a few jobs lost in Michigan. GM lost nearly 50% of its stock worth over the last week. So the writing is on the wall. However, last year Congress did vote to allow for I think it was originally $250 (but there I seem to remember there is a line that allows them to boost this to $500 million) million dollars to help the auto industry. But as of yet no funds have been released. Fine and dandy, but it may only be delaying the inevitable if these funds are in fact released. It seems to me that Ford and GM are so far behind the eight ball as to actually be under it. And frankly the amount of money Congress has said they will alot to the issue, I fear it may only be a bandaid to prevent the failure of a dam. And frankly the solution lies within the walls and boardrooms of these companies. They simply need to be re-structured from the top down, and mostly at the top IMHO. Steelie
zeel Grand Rapids, MI	Reply » \| Report Abuse \| Judge it! \| #45 Oct 10, 2008 Stop producing these gas guzzlers...SUV's in particular...(trucks in some case are a nescessity like for a job or on a farm)...but whatever happened to the stationwagon.....nope huge SUV's that are 25-30K!!! get real...greed greed greed!
Steelie Joined: Feb 19, 2008 Comments: 976 Grand Rapids, MI	Reply » \| Report Abuse \| Judge it! \| #46 Oct 10, 2008 Good Day, Zeel, and that is part of it. That even though the global demand for oil was rising these companies did not learn their lessons from the 70's. They really should have seen what was coming. From 1997 to 2004 China's demand for oil increased by 250%! That alone should have told these boardrooms something. That the time to change toward manufacturing other vehicles was nigh. Ah, but their stubborn arrogance won out and here we are today. For many years Ford's number one selling vehicle was the F-150 pick up. Well we see how that has changed. Had these companies had the forsight to make the changes needed, and all of the evidence was right in front of them, then perhaps they would not be in such sad shape. Perhaps GM stock would not have slid by 50% like it did this last week if they had simply paid a little more attention to what was going on around the world. Steelie
maynard g krebs Grand Rapids, MI	Reply » \| Report Abuse \| Judge it! \| #47 Oct 10, 2008 Shoeless Eluder wrote: I guess you can blame me I haven't bought a new car since 1980.$30,000 for a pickup truck give me a break. What do you spend your money on? Apparently not shoes.
maynard g krebs Grand Rapids, MI	Reply » \| Report Abuse \| Judge it! \| #48 Oct 10, 2008 Steelie wrote: Good Day, Zeel, and that is part of it. That even though the global demand for oil was rising these companies did not learn their lessons from the 70's. They really should have seen what was coming. From 1997 to 2004 China's demand for oil increased by 250%! That alone should have told these boardrooms something. That the time to change toward manufacturing other vehicles was nigh. Ah, but their stubborn arrogance won out and here we are today. For many years Ford's number one selling vehicle was the F-150 pick up. Well we see how that has changed. Had these companies had the forsight to make the changes needed, and all of the evidence was right in front of them, then perhaps they would not be in such sad shape. Perhaps GM stock would not have slid by 50% like it did this last week if they had simply paid a little more attention to what was going on around the world. Steelie They built what people were buying. They do not control demand. Demand controls their output. We are as guilty as they are. We demanded, through our purchases, these gas guzzler dinosaurs. I didn't personally, but most others did. Had no one bought them, they wouldn't have built them. We, as consumers, should have demanded more fuel efficient vehicles. They would have responded by building them. We, the American consumers, are @ the basis of this financial mess. We paid way too much for homes, bought on really weird & risky mortgages, overspent our credit cards, etc. We are to blame. Execs @ Big 3 should have had a little more foresight, but the blame ultimately lies w us.
maynard g krebs Grand Rapids, MI	Reply » \| Report Abuse \| Judge it! \| #49 Oct 10, 2008 zeel wrote: Stop producing these gas guzzlers...SUV's in particular...(trucks in some case are a nescessity like for a job or on a farm)...but whatever happened to the stationwagon.....nope huge SUV's that are 25-30K!!! get real...greed greed greed! Oh, they have stopped alright. 4 plants to be idled in the very near future. Check out the dealer lot next time you drive by. Ask someone who wants to unload one of these beasts. Well nigh impossible. Many of the SUVs were well over $30k, too. My Outback, new, was over $25k, & that was in 02. Can't wait (sarcasm here) to have to replace it.

maynard g krebs Grand Rapids, MI	Reply » \| Report Abuse \| Judge it! \| #50 Oct 10, 2008 Steelie wrote: Good Day, KCGR, you may have a point on the rest of the nation joining in our despair. How I hope it is shortlived. I believe the markets will stabilize, particualarly once Europe gets their act together too. Union All The Way, hehe, I got a chuckle from that. But seriously, I do have concern that one or more of the former Big Three are in jeapordy of folding, being taken over by venture capitalists and sold off piece by piece or perhaps purchased by another auto company, any of which I would be willing to bet will result in quite a few jobs lost in Michigan. GM lost nearly 50% of its stock worth over the last week. So the writing is on the wall. However, last year Congress did vote to allow for I think it was originally $250 (but there I seem to remember there is a line that allows them to boost this to $500 million) million dollars to help the auto industry. But as of yet no funds have been released. Fine and dandy, but it may only be delaying the inevitable if these funds are in fact released. It seems to me that Ford and GM are so far behind the eight ball as to actually be under it. And frankly the amount of money Congress has said they will alot to the issue, I fear it may only be a bandaid to prevent the failure of a dam. And frankly the solution lies within the walls and boardrooms of these companies. They simply need to be re-structured from the top down, and mostly at the top IMHO. Steelie Do have my doubts about the blue oval, but GM is here to stay, albeit in a different form & size than now exists. They have some interesting product coming down the pike. They appear to be adapting. Might not be pleasant for the UAW or the state of MI, but they will survive as a corporation. Economy will improve & people will need to replace older cars. Will want more fuel efficient vehicles. They have gotten $4/gal for gas & all we did was complain. A few sham hearings in DC w the oil barons & back to business as usual.
Steelie Joined: Feb 19, 2008 Comments: 976 Grand Rapids, MI	Reply » \| Report Abuse \| Judge it! \| #51 Oct 11, 2008 Good Day, Maynard, good points. I guess one of my concerns here is that although yes the customer base was demanding these larger vehicles, that these companies do not seem to have a contingency plan. Hey I know they can not just turn over a factory overnight to produce a different product. I takes time to install new dies, presses and the like. But don't you think they should be prepared for any circumstance? Come on, these are large multi-national companies. They should really be prepared for any change int he market place. A closet full of ideas and types of reaction if you will. But I just don't understand why, again, they did not see this coming. Now is the time for them to once again look back in time to what happened in the 70's. And hopefully they will not repeat mistakes like they did then. They got caught flat footed and I personally think hurried new smaller cars into the market perhaps a little too quickly. Need I say Pinto? Oh certainly they need to make quick and decisive action, but they should be careful to make sure they are not hurrying too much. I would rather see them take a few extra months in development than make some knee jerk reaction to the problem. Steelie
Gentle Taz “Taz say Hi” Joined: Jan 6, 2008 Comments: 6208 Holland,MI ISP: Holland, MI	Reply » \| Report Abuse \| Judge it! \| #52 Oct 11, 2008 Steelie, I couldn't understand even in the 70s why GM found it necessary to come up with a new design for a fuel efficient car as they owned Opel (which they still do). They owned the designs and could most likely even shipped some of the tooling here to make them here. They are good designs. Opel has always had a good rep in Europe.
Steelie Joined: Feb 19, 2008 Comments: 976 Grand Rapids, MI	Reply » \| Report Abuse \| Judge it! \| #53 Oct 12, 2008 Good Day, GT - and that is just it. When will they, if ever, learn? I dare say many members of this forum could run these companies better than those in charge now. Steelie
Batch 37 Pain Is Good Murphysboro, IL	Reply » \| Report Abuse \| Judge it! \| #54 Oct 12, 2008 Judged: 1 1 1 Steelie wrote: Good Day, GT - and that is just it. When will they, if ever, learn? I dare say many members of this forum could run these companies better than those in charge now. Steelie If any of the companies were smart they would run to the SUPPOSED room where they keep the motor that runs on water and put it into their cars. That would turn everything around. I am still wait for the Jetson's flying cars.....
Steelie Joined: Feb 19, 2008 Comments: 976 Grand Rapids, MI	Reply » \| Report Abuse \| Judge it! \| #55 Oct 12, 2008 Good Day, Batch - If I told you they were already here, what would you say? http://www.moller.com/ Steelie
Batch 37 Pain Is Good Murphysboro, IL	Reply » \| Report Abuse \| Judge it! \| #56 Oct 13, 2008 Judged: 1 1 1 Steelie wrote: Good Day, Batch - If I told you they were already here, what would you say? http://www.moller.com/ Steelie That looks cool!
Union All The Way “I can't belive you wrote that!” Joined: Apr 12, 2008 Comments: 1694 Lakeview, MI. ISP: Logan, IL	Reply » \| Report Abuse \| Judge it! \| #57 Oct 13, 2008 Steelie wrote: Good Day, Batch - If I told you they were already here, what would you say? http://www.moller.com/ Steelie I want one.
Old Rocker Allegan, MI	Reply » \| Report Abuse \| Judge it! \| #58 Oct 13, 2008 Judged: 2 2 1 Steelie wrote: Good Day, Batch - If I told you they were already here, what would you say? http://www.moller.com/ Steelie Wow!! a combination airplane and motorcar. Now we'll will have to watch for idiot drivers in 3 dimensions.
RAB Vandalia, OH	Reply » \| Report Abuse \| Judge it! \| #59 Oct 13, 2008 Shoeless Eluder wrote: I guess you can blame me I haven't bought a new car since 1980.$30,000 for a pickup truck give me a break. I guess you just have to look for a good deal which is very easy to find on trucks and suv's right now. I bought a new full size Dodge Ram last summer, sticker was $37,500 and I got it for $26,000 after rebates and employee pricing combined. I would agree that vehicles tend to be overpriced though and I wouldn't buy anything had it not been for the sweet deal I got.
RAB Vandalia, OH	Reply » \| Report Abuse \| Judge it! \| #60 Oct 13, 2008 tim wrote: The big three has been living high on the hog for many years. Times change. When and if things turn around, it could be a good time to buy up stock. I think we have not seen the bottom yet, so I will sit on my money for now. There's not much more to go to hit bottonm. GM stock was at $4.72 last week so I went out and bought a few shares. I think we've pretty much seen the stock for the Detroit three go about as low as it's going to go, any further and they're out of business.
RAB Vandalia, OH	Reply » \| Report Abuse \| Judge it! \| #61 Oct 13, 2008 SOS in Rockford wrote: <quoted text> What planet do you come from? The auto makers could have said NO to the union demands at any time. I'm not a big union fan but let's be realistic, as long as they could pass on the additional costs, the auto makers didn't worry. Greed was the driving force on both sides. Now why don't we compromise and let them share the blame 50-50? As much as I detest unions I'd have to agree on both sides sharing the blame for their downfall. The union asked for to much but the company gave it to them as well as paying to much to top executives. When companies start paying for performance then we'll be getting somewhere.

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Detroit: Big three deathwatch

WOOD-TV Grand Rapids and Michigan Forum