Is America's Energy Independence important?

Herbert wrote:

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The sudden increase in gas prices shocked everyone into paying attention to what is going on. As long as gas prices stay high there will be interest and when there is interest things get done in this country.

You're close, when money is affected is when things get done.
And I mean when either money stands to be lost or stands to be made.
Trust me on this one thing - do not be fooled by a candidate or party when they claim to be interested in anything for the good of the nation. It's not the case. Those who support "green living" have invested heavily in "green companies." Those who promote offshore drilling have invested heavily in oil companies.
The fact is right now, money stands to be made on energy independence. Don't think I'm right - notice how many products are being created with the idea in mind. Look at what GE has been advertising lately. "Green" appliances, LED light bulbs, more efficient diesel train engines and their new innovations in windmills.
Trust me, if the terrorists from 9/11 had been associated with a country like China, we'll all be singing the, "Made In America" song rather than the "Energy Independence" chorus.

Based on the lack of responses I guess most people have absolutely no idea.

Can somebody out there prove me wrong?

It's a very complex issue and cost, like it or not, is an important factor. Our industry is in competition with industry in other nations and expensive energy would further undercut their ability to compete. Solar and wind power are clean, but NIMBY gets in the way, plus, as already stated, they are not reliable enough. At present, energy storage for times of no wind or sun is just not viable. The technology is just not available, so we need to keep coal on line to back up the "clean" power. Natural gas for the backup is cleaner than coal, but would have a negative impact on everyone's wallet by leading to large increases in the price of NG, plus, like oil, it will eventually run out. At present, clean coal is the most viable backup, but brngs the "environmentalists" out of the woodwork to fight it, plus "clean coal" is much more costly than the "dirty coal" being used in developing nations. Add that to the cost of the solar and wind power and we will negatively impact our competitiveness versus the developing nations.

That said, I feel we also need to be careful where we go with all this. For example, CFLs...most of the CFLS available now are made in China. Who is going to be making the turbines and solar panels once it becomes a profitable indutry to maufacture these? What effect would that have on our economy?

Gentle Taz wrote:

It's a very complex issue and cost, like it or not, is an important factor. Our industry is in competition with industry in other nations and expensive energy would further undercut their ability to compete. Solar and wind power are clean, but NIMBY gets in the way, plus, as already stated, they are not reliable enough. At present, energy storage for times of no wind or sun is just not viable. The technology is just not available, so we need to keep coal on line to back up the "clean" power. Natural gas for the backup is cleaner than coal, but would have a negative impact on everyone's wallet by leading to large increases in the price of NG, plus, like oil, it will eventually run out. At present, clean coal is the most viable backup, but brngs the "environmentalists" out of the woodwork to fight it, plus "clean coal" is much more costly than the "dirty coal" being used in developing nations. Add that to the cost of the solar and wind power and we will negatively impact our competitiveness versus the developing nations.
That said, I feel we also need to be careful where we go with all this. For example, CFLs...most of the CFLS available now are made in China. Who is going to be making the turbines and solar panels once it becomes a profitable indutry to maufacture these? What effect would that have on our economy?

So is that a yes or a no? lol! I understand it's complex. But do you thik it's important to work towards energy independence?

Businessminded wrote:

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So is that a yes or a no? lol! I understand it's complex. But do you thik it's important to work towards energy independence?

I think we can attribute the lack of responses to the fact that everyone is saying the same thing - unequivocally yes.

Hold please wrote:

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I think we can attribute the lack of responses to the fact that everyone is saying the same thing - unequivocally yes.

Well if that's true it's a good thing. It just seems there should be more discussion about the how we get there also. Perhaps everybody feels like a deer in headlights on this subject. Knowing we should move, just not sure where....

Businessminded wrote:

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Well if that's true it's a good thing. It just seems there should be more discussion about the how we get there also. Perhaps everybody feels like a deer in headlights on this subject. Knowing we should move, just not sure where....

Perhaps, but it seems people are keeping to the letter of the post.
But here, maybe this'll start things up.

Energy independence is one of the most important issues of this campaign. To get my vote, a candidate would have to support the following tenets of energy independence:
1. More nuclear plants
2. More DEPLOYMENT, not just research, of solar, wind and hydro-electric.
3. More drilling and refinement of domestic oil reserves, just to get us through the transition period.
4. More DEPLOYMENT of energy-efficient habits and products.
5. More DEPLOYMENT of energy-efficient buildings.(http://poughkeepsie journal.com/apps/pbcs.dll/arti cle?AID=/20081008/BUSINESS/810 080326/1003/BUSINESS)
6. More research and deployment of high-efficiency batteries
7. More research and deployment of electric and hydrogen-powered automobiles
8. More money toward the research on futuristic (yet feasible) forms of energy-producing devices (i.e. cold fusion reactors)
9. Promotion of "green thinking" campaigns, just without all the fanatical rhetoric
10. The support of intelligent discussion from all viewpoints about "green" technologies and no more stone-throwing. It's time for us to recognize that energy-independence is going to require the use of many different technologies, not just one silver bullet.

I read that Ford has developed a diesel auto that gets nearly 60 miles to the gallon, but decided it wasn't marketable in America and will make it available in Europe only.

I wonder if both parties have decided the subject of energy independence is too complicated for the American voter. "It's easier to win a vote by turning the electoral process into a reality show."

Insulting, I know. But maybe that's why it hasn't become a bigger issue.

Boo wrote:

I read that Ford has developed a diesel auto that gets nearly 60 miles to the gallon, but decided it wasn't marketable in America and will make it available in Europe only.
I wonder if both parties have decided the subject of energy independence is too complicated for the American voter. "It's easier to win a vote by turning the electoral process into a reality show."
Insulting, I know. But maybe that's why it hasn't become a bigger issue.

Oh I don't know. I think that it's a HUGE issue this year. I think more Americans aren't interested because we're looking for answers and have become tired of the back and forth between all parties involved.
Biodiesel argues with hydrogen power
Global warming advocates argue with Global stabilization advocates
Wind power argues with solar
Environmentalists argue with the nuclear advocates.
It's just a pain in the tuchus. No one is providing answers, they're all just trying to promote their own agenda.

Businessminded wrote:

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So is that a yes or a no? lol! I understand it's complex. But do you thik it's important to work towards energy independence?

Yes, it is, but it's going to be very difficult and we need to be careful. It would be very easy to jump on a "good" idea and then get hurt by the implementation of it. Back to the example of the CFLs. How is using them contributing to independence when we are in danger of becoming dependent on China for the bulbs?

You're right, of course.
When asked to admit "what is something you don't know" in the last debate, neither candidate opened up. McCain said "the same as all of you", and Barack, as usual, didn't answer the question at all. Instead they both spun it right back to their own agenda.
It's very frustrating.

Hold please wrote:

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Perhaps, but it seems people are keeping to the letter of the post.
.

That's funny - hasn't stopped people from veering off subject before....:)

Thanks for throwing in some good stuff.

Boo wrote:

I read that Ford has developed a diesel auto that gets nearly 60 miles to the gallon, but decided it wasn't marketable in America and will make it available in Europe only.
I wonder if both parties have decided the subject of energy independence is too complicated for the American voter. "It's easier to win a vote by turning the electoral process into a reality show."
Insulting, I know. But maybe that's why it hasn't become a bigger issue.

I heard something this summer but can't remember where. It sounds like an 'internet rumor'-but I thought it was relevant to this post. I heard a man bought a Ford Truck and was getting 60-70 Miles per gallon. It turned out to be a Ford test model sold in error. They tried to buy it back and he wouldn't. Anybody else here this? Like I said - sounds like a good internet rumor to me but it would be interesting to verify something like that.

It's VERY hard to believe that in my lifetime they haven't improved gas mileage better than they have so I am skeptical. I had an Uncle who invented a method of doing 'at-home' drycleaning in the 60's or 70's.(Long before that Dryel) He sold his idea to a big company (P & G I think) for 6 figures and they NEVER took it to market.

Good Day,

Business minded, interesting that... Sometimes a company will purchase an idea for the express reason of keeping it off the market. They may have their own reasons of course... but still an odd habit.

Honestly, I am of the opinion that battery power is the way it will eventually pan out for autos. The technologies are improving and there is really nothing to manufacture for an electric car as opposed to any other type of fuel like hydrogen, diesel or gas. Just plug into a wall. Shoot, look at the solar races they have each year. Although expensive for now, take a look at Teslamotors.com . Fascinating vehicle. I can't wait to see their 5 seat sedan when it is released.

Steelie

Apparently, it hasn't been important since 1776.

Businessminded wrote:

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I heard something this summer but can't remember where. It sounds like an 'internet rumor'-but I thought it was relevant to this post. I heard a man bought a Ford Truck and was getting 60-70 Miles per gallon. It turned out to be a Ford test model sold in error. They tried to buy it back and he wouldn't. Anybody else here this? Like I said - sounds like a good internet rumor to me but it would be interesting to verify something like that.
It's VERY hard to believe that in my lifetime they haven't improved gas mileage better than they have so I am skeptical. I had an Uncle who invented a method of doing 'at-home' drycleaning in the 60's or 70's.(Long before that Dryel) He sold his idea to a big company (P & G I think) for 6 figures and they NEVER took it to market.

They've had actual cars (not some spaceship prototype) that can get close to 100mpg's since the 40's or 50's, but the ideas got squashed in the developing of them.

Steelie wrote:

Good Day,
Business minded, interesting that... Sometimes a company will purchase an idea for the express reason of keeping it off the market. They may have their own reasons of course... but still an odd habit.
Honestly, I am of the opinion that battery power is the way it will eventually pan out for autos. The technologies are improving and there is really nothing to manufacture for an electric car as opposed to any other type of fuel like hydrogen, diesel or gas. Just plug into a wall. Shoot, look at the solar races they have each year. Although expensive for now, take a look at Teslamotors.com . Fascinating vehicle. I can't wait to see their 5 seat sedan when it is released.
Steelie

Cool car! Pricey though. I think you're right about electric being the best option - but I still think it's going to be a blended market for years.

Agreed wrote:

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This is a good poll subject, however I'm sensing most people would rather take personal jabs at the candidates and one another (generally slaughtering the English language in the process), and prove themselves to be the dumb-**** our media has trained them to be.
Any talk of energy self-sufficiency is important. But why has it taken a financial meltdown to get to this point?

The high gasoline prices and how suddenly they escalated almost drove people into a state of rebellion. Meltdown is a separate issue except that it has caused gas prices to drop dramatically which means, if it continues, people will lose interest in independence.

Good Day,

Bussinessminded - yeah, a bit pricy, for now. As with any new technology they start off high priced but eventually level out. Just think about things like plasma T.V.s, Ipods, X Box 360, and so on. All were much more expensive but have come down in price. Another one of the reasons I think electric will eventually be the king of all vehicles is two fold. Zero emissions and cheap. Also, I think we will also begin to see more government regulation to this effect. We are already seeing it in California where they are requiring more zero emission vehicles be sold. Depending on how both the technology of the batteries and solar develop over the coming years, shoot, concievably you could power your vehicle for free! I have read articles by various scientists that hope this very thing happens. It would be easy enough to throw solar panels on the roof of a garage, carport or roof of a business. And some of the concept drawings were pretty cool. Imagine carports being errected in parking lots with solar panels on top. So when you go to work, if needbe, just plug in your vehicle. Plus, you get the advantage of a cool car in summer and no snow to brush off in winter... haha.(I know, viability of solar during Michigan winters...) Shoot, I have even read of solar panels that are so sensitive that they can produce power by moonlight! There are also companies that have produced solar panel roofing shingles. They look just like a normal shingle but are in fact miniature solar panels... how cool! Furthermore there are scientists in both the US and France who are freneticly working on figuring out nuclear fusion. They have managed to heat plasma to several million degrees. Even hotter than the surface of the sun! They are working on how to keep it going. If they figure that out, well, case closed. So I have every confidence that we will become thoroughly energy independant within my lifetime. We see these technologies are being developed. And as both demand for them increases so to will the expense of them decrease making it affordable for all.

Steelie

Steelie wrote:

Good Day,
Bussinessminded - yeah, a bit pricy, for now. As with any new technology they start off high priced but eventually level out. Just think about things like plasma T.V.s, Ipods, X Box 360, and so on. All were much more expensive but have come down in price. Another one of the reasons I think electric will eventually be the king of all vehicles is two fold. Zero emissions and cheap. Also, I think we will also begin to see more government regulation to this effect. We are already seeing it in California where they are requiring more zero emission vehicles be sold. Depending on how both the technology of the batteries and solar develop over the coming years, shoot, concievably you could power your vehicle for free! I have read articles by various scientists that hope this very thing happens. It would be easy enough to throw solar panels on the roof of a garage, carport or roof of a business. And some of the concept drawings were pretty cool. Imagine carports being errected in parking lots with solar panels on top. So when you go to work, if needbe, just plug in your vehicle. Plus, you get the advantage of a cool car in summer and no snow to brush off in winter... haha.(I know, viability of solar during Michigan winters...) Shoot, I have even read of solar panels that are so sensitive that they can produce power by moonlight! There are also companies that have produced solar panel roofing shingles. They look just like a normal shingle but are in fact miniature solar panels... how cool! Furthermore there are scientists in both the US and France who are freneticly working on figuring out nuclear fusion. They have managed to heat plasma to several million degrees. Even hotter than the surface of the sun! They are working on how to keep it going. If they figure that out, well, case closed. So I have every confidence that we will become thoroughly energy independant within my lifetime. We see these technologies are being developed. And as both demand for them increases so to will the expense of them decrease making it affordable for all.
Steelie

I agree - I understand the curve of adopting & adapting this new technology and I agree for years now I've felt solar & electric had more potential than we as consumers were getting. Heck, I remember the solar panels being put on homes in the 70's & 80's so I honestly thought we'd be further by now. Seems we need those higher gas prices for motivation. It was surprising the 1st time I went to the New YMCA and saw the plugs next to the parking spaces. The future holds some fascinating stuff for us all.