GM, Chrysler talk merger

Steelie wrote:

Good Day,
As predicted, it begins...
Diamler has been voicing for a while that they are considering getting out of their relationship with Chrysler. However, I have my doubts that this merger will solve any problems for either company. What is next? Toyota - Ford? Actually, that might be a better merger than GM - Chrysler. As it is known, Toyotas are made with more American components than either GM or Ford. So that could concievably help not only Ford by producing a better product, but also stimulate the auto supply market if Toyota were to take over and say that Ford had to play by their rules. Which in turn could mean more jobs in that sector. Hmmm...
Steelie

Your assertion as to Toyota having more domestic content is false. I insist that you offer 'proof' of this.

Typical White Person wrote:

<quoted text>
GM sold GMAC a couple years back. No longer part of the automotive manufacturer.

Gm sold a percent of GMAC.....not all of it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GMAC

Hurley35 wrote:

My guess is that GM will buy Chrysler. Chrysler is no longer a viable auto company. My guess would be that GM would phase out the Dodge and Chrysler Truck and Car lines and just keep the Jeeps. Jeep owners are a dedicated lot. For many of them it's a Jeep or nothing else. Besides that's lots of manufacturing capability for a discount price.

And yet there are many die-hard Ram fans. I think that they're a great looking truck, even as I own a Chevy truck.

Good Day,

Nostomo - I don't mean to be arguementative, but actually they are. A frend of mine is a repair shop manager for a Toyota dealership. And if I remember correctly he said that depending on model, the engine and or transmition may come from Japan but virtually all of the rest of the auto is US made.(Perhaps someone in the car business can confirm this?) In fact, for example, as an unintnded consequence of the American Axel strike earlier this year GM was "forced" to shift much of their Chevy truck production to Mexico. This in turn has decreased the truck lines' domestic content low enough to the point that a Toyota Tundra is more American than a Dodge Ram or Silverado. To the point that now these two lines are nearly 25% Mexican made. So slap a sticker on your 2008 Silverado or Dodge Ram to state "25% Mexican made!".

Steelie

Steelie wrote:

Good Day,
Nostomo - I don't mean to be arguementative, but actually they are. A frend of mine is a repair shop manager for a Toyota dealership. And if I remember correctly he said that depending on model, the engine and or transmition may come from Japan but virtually all of the rest of the auto is US made.(Perhaps someone in the car business can confirm this?) In fact, for example, as an unintnded consequence of the American Axel strike earlier this year GM was "forced" to shift much of their Chevy truck production to Mexico. This in turn has decreased the truck lines' domestic content low enough to the point that a Toyota Tundra is more American than a Dodge Ram or Silverado. To the point that now these two lines are nearly 25% Mexican made. So slap a sticker on your 2008 Silverado or Dodge Ram to state "25% Mexican made!".
Steelie

Steelie, if you'd like to have the scales fall from your eyes, just Google "Toyota and slave-labor". Lots of Vietnamese making parts for Toyota for use here.

Here's a starter link:
http://www.iht.com/articles/2007/07/26/busine...

It is about all-out economic warfare. The Japanese are an insular society with a long history and an even longer memory.

buyer beware wrote:

If you use GMAC for any banking, they are not FDIC insured. If they are doing as poorly as this article reports, who's to say that they won't go under like the rest of the financial institutions that recently have? We are getting our money out.
Actually, for any banks that you have savings in, you should double check to make sure that the money in your account is FDIC insured, don't just assume that they are. I think credit unions have a different insuring body, but I don't know what it is.

The National Credit Union Administration (NCUA) is the federal agency that charters and supervises federal credit unions and insures savings in federal and most state-chartered credit unions across the country through the National Credit Union Share Insurance Fund (NCUSIF), a federal fund backed by the full faith and credit of the United States government.

Wheather it happens or not makes no difference to me. Chrysler vehicles are junk. Its one sinking ship ready to buy another.

Good Day,

Nostromo, you won't get any arguement from me there. I was fortunate enough in the late 90's to have been in the international business game (until the economic meltdown of Asia back then). I was living and had my offices in Singapore. A beautiful and clean place I might add. Well, one of the things I did was to help American companies find parterns in Asia. If that meant selling American product in Asia or perhaps helping an American company find manufacturing partners. Being in this line of work meant a fair amount of travel from time to time. So I was then fortunate to have travelled and done business in such countries as the Phillipines, China, Hong Kong, Indonesia, Thailand and Malaysia for example. And boy howdy have I seen my fair share of factories. Some might suprise you with how clean and modern they were, particularly when dealing with electronics. To a furniture factory I remember touring in Southern China (just outside Hong Kong) That looked like something out of a period "Imperial" movie depicting an era from hundreds of years ago. Seriously, the buildings looked as if they had been around for several hundred years, and probably were... To an outdoor factory in Malaysia. No really, it was outdoors! Just roofs over the working areas and machinery. No walls. They were making furniture. We had to retreat at two points during the tour due to a large cobra and then a kimono dragon. Crazy!

Steelie

Steelie wrote:

Good Day,
Nostromo, you won't get any arguement from me there. I was fortunate enough in the late 90's to have been in the international business game (until the economic meltdown of Asia back then). I was living and had my offices in Singapore. A beautiful and clean place I might add. Well, one of the things I did was to help American companies find parterns in Asia. If that meant selling American product in Asia or perhaps helping an American company find manufacturing partners. Being in this line of work meant a fair amount of travel from time to time. So I was then fortunate to have travelled and done business in such countries as the Phillipines, China, Hong Kong, Indonesia, Thailand and Malaysia for example. And boy howdy have I seen my fair share of factories. Some might suprise you with how clean and modern they were, particularly when dealing with electronics. To a furniture factory I remember touring in Southern China (just outside Hong Kong) That looked like something out of a period "Imperial" movie depicting an era from hundreds of years ago. Seriously, the buildings looked as if they had been around for several hundred years, and probably were... To an outdoor factory in Malaysia. No really, it was outdoors! Just roofs over the working areas and machinery. No walls. They were making furniture. We had to retreat at two points during the tour due to a large cobra and then a kimono dragon. Crazy!
Steelie

Thanks for the insight Steelie. They know how to maximize their assets within the Pacific Rim. I respect your opinions and certainly your observations. They play the game as though every millisecond is a precious commodity. They know squat about lifting anyone out of poverty however, save those atop the pyramid. What to do? The work ethic of our forebearers is vanishing quicker than Rain-forest acreage. We cannot be content to be a nation of those whom conceive an idea then farm-out the heavy lifting to job-hungry developing nations. Charity begins at home. The Chinese maintain a standby workforce equal to the population of the U.S. They survive on the equivalent of $1 per day (US funds). That's just a peek at the competition that'd rapaciously eat our lunches and at the same time have us foot the bill for the preparation of same.

Good Day,

Nostromo - astute observations. SE Asia is really moving.(Excepting the Phillipines perhaps, not so much improvement there.) While living there it was amazing to watch the growth. You would visit a place then come back 6 months to a year later and think to yourself, "Hey wait, that building wasn't there last time." I remember a visit into Southern China just outside of Hong Kong. It was so sureal. I noticed what was basicly a small city that appeared to be abondoned yet there was still mass construction all over the place. I asked my hosts about it. They semi-joking did call it a ghost town. Imagine what essentailly was a brand new yet empty city. The project was based on forethought. That as 1997 grew near the government of China feared a mass migration toward Sourthern China and Hong Kong. What to do with all of those people? They did not want a shanty town sprouting out of the ground. So instead they litterally built empty cities. Which of course were filled up in no time around the turnover of Hong Kong back to China. So they knew what they were doing it would appear. And their middle class is growing like nobodies business. Oh sure there are still factory positions that only pay a few dollars a day, but that is still decent money for many in China. That as the manufacturing sector grew, so too did the demand for qualified managers, construction workers and foremen as well as entepenuers who might set up a food stall next to a factory or some such thing, enter the growth of the Chinese middle class. And the same is happening throughout that region, again, with few exceptions like the Phillipines. So sad really, downtown Manilla, last I visited, just looks run down and haggard. As if there has been no effort to improve, remodel or modernize anything since the 60's! In contrast cities like Shanghai, Beijing, Singapore, Hong Kong, Kuala Lumpur and so on look like gleeming modern if not even futuristic cities. But in many of these cities they have also embraced and held onto their "old nieghborhoods".

However, with all of this said, China is now beginning to feel the pinch of "going offshore" as they begin to loose jobs to countries who can do it even cheaper like Viet Nam and Thailand for example. And I have been keeping an eye on them, and other coutries since I left, and I am seeing something interesting developing over the horizon with regard to China and manufacturing. Bear with me a moment. I have a little economic theory that I like to call Global Shift. In that certain types of manufacturing and business litterally shift around the globe. At one time Europe was the manufacturing epicenter of the world. In time this shifted to the US and now to China and beyond. That as it becomes too expensive to operate in a certain locale, the business is shifted to a more profitable location. Enter what I think I am seeing. China knows, by looking at the history of Global Shift, they won't be the top dog forever. What I have noticed is more an more articles out there about Chinese manufacturers and investors making big time visits to Africa. Enter the next China. That they understand that to be profitable they will have to find someplace where they can make their goods for less that what it cost in China. Hence the visits to Africa. And frankly, if the US government, manufacturers and investors don't get moving too they could very well be left in the dust. And to me that could be a very dangerous error in judgement. Keep in mind that jobs weild influence. And if China is providing the jobs who do you think will have the upper hand in influence?

Steelie

Steelie wrote:

Good Day,
Nostromo - astute observations. SE Asia is really moving.(Excepting the Phillipines perhaps, not so much improvement there.) While living there it was amazing to watch the growth. You would visit a place then come back 6 months to a year later and think to yourself, "Hey wait, that building wasn't there last time." I remember a visit into Southern China just outside of Hong Kong. It was so sureal. I noticed what was basicly a small city that appeared to be abondoned yet there was still mass construction all over the place. I asked my hosts about it. They semi-joking did call it a ghost town. Imagine what essentailly was a brand new yet empty city. The project was based on forethought. That as 1997 grew near the government of China feared a mass migration toward Sourthern China and Hong Kong. What to do with all of those people? They did not want a shanty town sprouting out of the ground. So instead they litterally built empty cities. Which of course were filled up in no time around the turnover of Hong Kong back to China. So they knew what they were doing it would appear. And their middle class is growing like nobodies business. Oh sure there are still factory positions that only pay a few dollars a day, but that is still decent money for many in China. That as the manufacturing sector grew, so too did the demand for qualified managers, construction workers and foremen as well as entepenuers who might set up a food stall next to a factory or some such thing, enter the growth of the Chinese middle class. And the same is happening throughout that region, again, with few exceptions like the Phillipines. So sad really, downtown Manilla, last I visited, just looks run down and haggard. As if there has been no effort to improve, remodel or modernize anything since the 60's! In contrast cities like Shanghai, Beijing, Singapore, Hong Kong, Kuala Lumpur and so on look like gleeming modern if not even futuristic cities. But in many of these cities they have also embraced and held onto their "old nieghborhoods".
However, with all of this said, China is now beginning to feel the pinch of "going offshore" as they begin to loose jobs to countries who can do it even cheaper like Viet Nam and Thailand for example. And I have been keeping an eye on them, and other coutries since I left, and I am seeing something interesting developing over the horizon with regard to China and manufacturing. Bear with me a moment. I have a little economic theory that I like to call Global Shift. In that certain types of manufacturing and business litterally shift around the globe. At one time Europe was the manufacturing epicenter of the world. In time this shifted to the US and now to China and beyond. That as it becomes too expensive to operate in a certain locale, the business is shifted to a more profitable location. Enter what I think I am seeing. China knows, by looking at the history of Global Shift, they won't be the top dog forever. What I have noticed is more an more articles out there about Chinese manufacturers and investors making big time visits to Africa. Enter the next China. That they understand that to be profitable they will have to find someplace where they can make their goods for less that what it cost in China. Hence the visits to Africa. And frankly, if the US government, manufacturers and investors don't get moving too they could very well be left in the dust. And to me that could be a very dangerous error in judgement. Keep in mind that jobs weild influence. And if China is providing the jobs who do you think will have the upper hand in influence?
Steelie

Interesting point...Steelie !!