State looking for options for Rt. 219

Already 20 million over on what was suppose to be an 80 million dollar project?! Maybe another 10 million needed?! And likely more, much much more, after that?!
Certainly the required core sampling indicated that there was the potential of a severe problem if that road was put through there, Add to that the well known historic nature of that area as regards water/ground structure problems.
You've got to wonder if the attitude all along simply wasn't, "We've waited long enough to build this road so damn the torpedos; discount (cover up the problem ?) the problem potential and get the show on the road.
Once the project is underway our plea will that it'd be foolish to stop now, it'll simply be cheaper for the taxpayer to foot the overage than to start over".
What we definitely (purposefully?) ended up with is what amounts to a "low balled" project cost estimate and a huge bill for the end result.

Some one should ask uncle Luke who is paying for the
construction of the project...could it be that there is no local money involved here? Could it be
that the Federal Government, out of the highway
trust fund, is funding the major portion of this
project? Hmmmmm. Something fishy going on here.
Looks like a lot of politics.
And Cold Spring Construction is the contractor, from
Akron, NY. Hmmmmm. Who stands to gain from this?
Will we be constructing a grand stand near this
project for all the politicians to stand on while
they make their speeches about balogna...blah,blah
blah,blah...and will uncle Luke be there to ask
all the really important questions...will he be
tripping over the other reporters from channel
2 and channel 7...
Hot air.
We have a ton of it in western new york.

Whoever's footing the bill, this is a public safety issue. They're building a road in a place they shouldn't be, damaging people's property and putting their lives in danger. DOT's original estimates were that due to landslides, the road would have to be fixed EVERY 2 YEARS! And geological surveys from 30 years ago would have told them it was unsafe, but Dale "There's only so much testing you can do" Volker wanted the project to continue without proper testing. We should make him pay the extra costs.

Our members built all the highways around here because we know what we are doing and how to get things done. What do you expect from Cold Springs, the big scab outfit that donates to Volker and the rest of the scum in Albany.

Local 17 Member wrote:

Our members built all the highways around here because we know what we are doing and how to get things done. What do you expect from Cold Springs, the big scab outfit that donates to Volker and the rest of the scum in Albany.

Classic Response....Just Classic!
You infer that landslides are happening because the bulldozer operators are not up to union standards!!
Your comment is so stupid, it's hilarious!!

They're dumping stone to keep the house on the uphill side of the new roadbed from sliding downhill. In the long term what good does that do when there's a very real possibility that the entire roadbed, the stone pile along with it, will be forever slipping down the hill !
I know that they're just doing whatever they can to stabilze things for at least for the short term, you certainly can't fault them for that of course, but doesn't this whole exercise seem to be degrading down to the futility of rearranging deck chairs on a sinking ship?
Anyone want to start a pool as to if and when they issue an abandon ship order?

Local 17 Member wrote:

Our members built all the highways around here because we know what we are doing and how to get things done. What do you expect from Cold Springs, the big scab outfit that donates to Volker and the rest of the scum in Albany.

If they're building the road in the manner proscribed by DOT specs what does it matter, as regards the matter of slide, who is doing the building? Other than the operators, wouldn't the same equipment and techniques be used? Does the matter of being of union/nonunion somehow change the laws of physics?
I'm no expert, or even a novice in such matters, but isn't the real problem the issue of building through there in the first place? Long before any construction company ever got to bid the project the state/fed DOT's had issued their project cost estimates based , in part, on the geology of the area. Obviously the DOT's chose to ignore, downplay or otherwise discount well documented data on the slide area.
We all know that there's been extensive, long term pressure to extend the road. I just can't help but believe that "political pressure" from the "just build the damn road now " factions may have somehow led to a "misinterpretation" of the data. Wouldn't hardly be the first time that such a thing has happened.

Dave wrote:

They're dumping stone to keep the house on the uphill side of the new roadbed from sliding downhill. In the long term what good does that do when there's a very real possibility that the entire roadbed, the stone pile along with it, will be forever slipping down the hill !
I know that they're just doing whatever they can to stabilze things for at least for the short term, you certainly can't fault them for that of course, but doesn't this whole exercise seem to be degrading down to the futility of rearranging deck chairs on a sinking ship?
Anyone want to start a pool as to if and when they issue an abandon ship order?

Dave, they are using shale. What is shale? Highly compressed clay. What happens when shale get wet? It gets slippery. Try walking some shale lined creek bed. Slip, slide, slip, slide. Wu Hu! Save me a deck chair Dave, and I will for you!

What a mess. Goodbye Golf course and the best Steelhead fishing in the area.

Local 17 Member wrote:

Our members built all the highways around here because we know what we are doing and how to get things done. What do you expect from Cold Springs, the big scab outfit that donates to Volker and the rest of the scum in Albany.

JUST as suspected a union crybaby gets to inform that because its not union built its no good not because of a water table slipping just union

PuntangWillie wrote:

Some one should ask uncle Luke who is paying for the
construction of the project...could it be that there is no local money involved here? Could it be
that the Federal Government, out of the highway
trust fund, is funding the major portion of this
project? Hmmmmm. Something fishy going on here.
Looks like a lot of politics.
And Cold Spring Construction is the contractor, from
Akron, NY. Hmmmmm. Who stands to gain from this?
Will we be constructing a grand stand near this
project for all the politicians to stand on while
they make their speeches about balogna...blah,blah
blah,blah...and will uncle Luke be there to ask
all the really important questions...will he be
tripping over the other reporters from channel
2 and channel 7...
Hot air.
We have a ton of it in western new york.

I can see it now,... cameras rolling, all the politicians going blah, blah, blah, the house slipping down the hill into the podium, with the reporters clamering all over each other for a better view of the destruction (sic) crew in the background dumping more kitty litter on their [fill in the blank]. Like Dave said: "just rearranging the deck chairs on a sinking ship"

PuntangWillie wrote:

Some one should ask uncle Luke who is paying for the
construction of the project...could it be that there is no local money involved here? Could it be
that the Federal Government, out of the highway
trust fund, is funding the major portion of this
project?

We all know it's federal and state money. And those that have a job know that the high taxes they pay go towards these funds or bonds that we float in this state.

Scooby wrote:

Whoever's footing the bill, this is a public safety issue. They're building a road in a place they shouldn't be, damaging people's property and putting their lives in danger. DOT's original estimates were that due to landslides, the road would have to be fixed EVERY 2 YEARS! And geological surveys from 30 years ago would have told them it was unsafe, but Dale "There's only so much testing you can do" Volker wanted the project to continue without proper testing. We should make him pay the extra costs.

IF only they got SOMEBODY that could READ 2 or 3 SURVEYS and reports years ago , instead of trying to pocket a little on the side we would not be in this mess.

Local 17 Member wrote:

Our members built all the highways around here because we know what we are doing and how to get things done. What do you expect from Cold Springs, the big scab outfit that donates to Volker and the rest of the scum in Albany.

How IGNORANT! Unions be DAMED! Anyone heard of PILINGS! Unions Are NOT the answer, just a cause for HIGHER COST!(same result!)

EHC-45 wrote:

<quoted text>
How IGNORANT! Unions be DAMED! Anyone heard of PILINGS! Unions Are NOT the answer, just a cause for HIGHER COST!(same result!)

I'm not certain that pilings/piers are the answer as, according to one of the state engineers, the unstable slide material is about 100' thick (deep) and 2/3rds of a mile long along the course of the roadway.(Yep, forearmed with that data I'd elect to build a road right through there too!)
Wouldn't that mean that you'd have to drive the piling, or place the pier footing, down through all of that and then some considerable distance more into the stable underlying strata (bedrock?). Is such a tactic economically feaseable?
Oh wait! I forgot that the taxpayers are footing this bill and thus all things ARE economically feaseable.

Here's another point that no one has addressed,... this is the same construction co. that re-paved Rt 219 from Rt 39 (SVL) to Rt 391 (Hamburg/N. Boston), only to have to come back and do hot crack sealing on both Northbound and Southbound lanes. I do recall an investigative reporter covered this issue a few years ago.

Region 5 NYSDOT: a train wreck waiting to happen.

PS: They are using shale to buttress the slip sliding away. What is shale? see above. Walk a shale creek bed or climb the shale cliffs on Lake Erie Shores.

Region5. Wasn't it OAKGROVE CONSTRUCTION that bid
and received the work on Rt.219 resurfacing that you
mentioned?

Gr8 Point Mr. Puntang:: Oakgrove may have done the repave, but from what the web and memory tells me :: "you know who" did the hot seal on all the cracks post re-paving...and did the ORIGINAL to "hell with it, we'll put the road on the high route into oblivion" :: 219 from 20A to 39" Hmmm, haven't heard the word Puntang / Poontang since Thakek/ Nakhon Phanom / and other covert Air Commando Days in the 60's brother.

Somewhere there are a lot of plans for this mess with the stamps and seals of responsible licensed professional engineers on them. However as it is a DOT project there will be no negative consequences for any of them.

This series of stories on the $100+ million expenditure to build four miles of four lane expressway in the country does however make good reading on how one screw up evolves into a total fiasco.

Joe Yankee wrote:

Somewhere there are a lot of plans for this mess with the stamps and seals of responsible licensed professional engineers on them. However as it is a DOT project there will be no negative consequences for any of them.
This series of stories on the $100+ million expenditure to build four miles of four lane expressway in the country does however make good reading on how one screw up evolves into a total fiasco.

And this is why the locals call the project "From a Cow Path to a Cow Pasture."