GM to pay up to $200M to help end American Axle strike

You gotta face facts... the American (and Canadian) manufacturing base is disappearing. Jobs are being shipped to Mexico, China, India ... etc, etc... People in these countries will do the same work for a lot less pay, thats a fact and that is all I was trying to comment on.
AAM jobs will be gone soon too if the company can pay workers a lot less money in Mexico or any other country. So the point I am trying to get across it get a skill or education for a back up plan, but some people are resistant to that??? I dont know why anyone would not want to better themselves and stay in a stressfull situation wondering if they will have a job tomorrow???

Union All The Way wrote:

Like I said before we are the only country that takes so few steps to protect our own economy. That's what tariffs are for. To balance out trade. Fair trade. Not free trade.
Anyone that thinks we can compete with these third world countries for labor and survive our economy is seriously delusional.
That is a fact..but I would say DISFUNCTIONAL...Jack. Trickle down is now getting faster...$5.00 a gallon for gas by Aug.08..watch and see...a hurrican IS a great excuse.Now that so many "union" shops are scaling back on wages..guess who's next....yup..the people who bad mouth unions...hehehehe..what goes around, comes around..it's coming..can we stop it..NOPE!

Exactly.

Everything is going up but the wages. Keep it up union naysayers, I'll see you in the bread line.

Well looks like the responses shows that union supporters really don't have a clue about how the economy works, I guess I should have known that morons can't be taught anything. Thats ok with the declining #'s soon they will be a thing of the past.

UAWGirl wrote:

<quoted text>
Exactly.
Everything is going up but the wages. Keep it up union naysayers, I'll see you in the bread line.

I am not union and trust me my wages will not get cut. I do not look to a Union to attempt to protect my wages. two reasons, first I am paid a fair wage for what I do. Second I have multiple marketable skills that can not be taught with 2 weeks of on the job training. If my employer cuts my wage I can go get another job within my field making the same or more than I was making before. That is what I did when things took a turn for the worse with my last company.

You see when you invest in yourself and take responsibility for your own future, you will find that you do things that will better yourself. If you want to make a high wage do something for yourself that will put you that position. I would never put myself in a positon, where the only reason I was getting paid a wage was because I had to pay a monthly fee. a fee to a group that exsists for the sole purpose of driving wages above an acceptable level by threating to shut down the company, just so they can collect higher dues and line there own pockets. I constantly hear union members talking about CEO's and corporate greed. While unions continue to collect money from there members and use it to benifit themselves not their members. Do some research on where your money goes.

Folks it is time to act like adults, You mother is no longer here to protect you and tell you everything is going to be alright. Take responsibility for your own life. Enough of the child like behavior and walking off the job when you do not get your way. If you do not like what the company is offering leave. If you are actually getting paid a fair market wage for the work you perform, Any competitor should be willing to offer you a job at the same rate. You chose your path now either stay on it or go a new direction.

I love how everyone can jump right on the union bashing bandwagon. We've seen what the economy has done under the guidance of the Repukelicans and Cokehead in Chief.

CNC MAN wrote:

<quoted text>
Hey Joe why dont you worry about America junior instead of trying to understand what is happening here. When AAM was spun off from GM those wages you are talking about were bargained for. The company agreed to them when the industry was booming and now after BIG DlCK filled his pockets he wants to screw over the people that got him where he is today. Your talking out your ****.

It is simple economics. They company could afford to pay the wages when they where making money. Now they cant afford to pay the same wages because Toyota and Honda can put out a superior product at 70% less production cost.

The company needs to pay UNSKILLED labor at the market price. There is no need to pay people 4 times the going market price on a job that anyone can learn in 2 or 3 weeks.

It was all great in the heyday when GM/FORD was the market leader and making record profits.

However, now they are losing market share and sales, and cant afford to pay unskilled labor the same price as somone with a masters degree.

The fact that the unions do not understand profit margins is very disturbing.

You have had a good run and have made way more money per hour then the market demands. There is no need to pay someone 30 an hour(70 after benefits) when the rest of the industry pays 12 to 15 an hour. The fact that Toyota and Honda can manufacture in the united states at 50% less cost and put out a better quality product should tell you something.

It all comes down to supply and demand. The company has over payed you for so long and you have taken advantage of it so long that you cant understand the simple fact that the company is losing money because of labor costs.

Gm just wants to pay the going market rate for your position, it is not evil it is just reality. You can keep striking and demanding new wages but all you are going to do is provide jobs to Canada and Mexico. I hate to tell you this but you have been overpaid for a long time and the market is catching up with you.

When a company is loosing money they have to make changes to become profitable. Sorry but the UAW is driving more jobs out of this country then any form of legislation or politician. I am sure if GM/Ford could offer jobs at the current market rate they would hire people in America at 13-15 an hour instead of going to Canada or mexico.

I know of 100's of people that would be happy to perform unskilled labor at that price but the UAW is so powerful they cause job loss to other countries.

Wow, luv this thread, mothers day for all UU redneck Mothers lol, tolerate my humor you all already say I type like a hick , U all already
know Miss Spellings.

Thanks Tourists wanted:

post

Anyone that thinks we can compete with these third world countries for labor and survive our economy is seriously delusional

and U "The Man"

50 years ago the fifty mile carburator

GM offers 200 Million to buy down retire or otherwise help end this strike. Ron Gettelfinger asked for no help from General Motors.

Steve Miller is working his butt off. He had to write a book as his wife was dying of inoperable brain cancer as he reduced his delphi holdings from 29 united states plants to ...

He feels for these workers, in his book he praises the integrity of the wyoming, Michigan employees.

American Axle is a skilled workforce. Make your CEO Dauch at least cunsult with Steve Miller. He Pioneered bankrupt companies to survive in some way. The wild card is Dauch is trying to emulate Steve Miller with a profitable company that is not yet found itself into Bankruptcy. Things that make U Go HMMM_

aamhf wrote:

<quoted text>Actually tonawanda forge makes toyota parts for thier cars and trucks.. once again the uniformed public bashes the aam workers

I was bashing GM, not you lazy slobs. Anyways, the forge is done.....turn the lights off on your way out.

Why would you union slobs want to work for AA&M anymore? The company doesn't like you, you don't like the company, and your selling out for a paycheck. What a sucker you are. If you are so valuable then go test your worth on the open market and see how well you do. Even if you are "skilled" trades you'll be lucky to pull $18/hr with poor benefits out there.

The gravy train with biscuit wheels is coming to its last stop, time for you to hop off.

Also, Toyota will no longer source AA&M now that they have seen the poor labor relations. AA&M is strictly GM-only from here on out.

Have any of you been to the sprawling Guanajuato AA&M facility in Mexico? It is the crown jewel of their operations and they have doubled capacity since the strike began! That is an amazing feat for a company the size of AA&M.

I expect a "shell" workforce in Michigan and WNY to comply with the next contract language, however all of the product has/will be PPAP'd out of the Mexican facility and it will service this entire continent. They already have proven they can supply the Camaro axles to Oshawa cheaper than Buffalo could, despite the logistical disadvantage.

The entire automotive industry is undergoing wage calibration in North America. Suppliers cannot afford to pay more than the OEMs for unskilled labor, end of discussion. If AA&M does not control its labor costs and ridiculous absenteeism rate, then Dana surely would have overtaken their major contracts in due time.

Good luck boys, time to sell off the hunting cabins, boats, snowmobiles, and lower the alimony to your (multiple) ex-wives.

Chip wrote:

Could some of you union supports PLEASE learn economics, you ramble on about how you think unions affect the economy any you haven't got a clue.
It is impossible to explain all of the factors involved, but unions create unemployment.
Article from two econ proffesors at university of Chicago.
http://faculty.chicagogsb.edu/workshops/inter...
I don't expect you to read read and understand everything in the article, but the basic point is that there is a supply and demand curve for all labor just like any other product, the higher the price the less quantity demanded.
Conclusion from the paper:
"We conclude from this exercise that union-
mandated minimum wages provide a powerful mechanism for generating rest unemployment."
And before you make comments like that doesn't reflect real world, it is based on the laws of economics, which are as proven as the laws of physics, So if you don't believe either then jump out your window and test the law of gravity.

Well said !!!

This is a great hand out by GM or was it the government or-hey we never chck the facts they are too boring in news reporting-fiction as you know watching my Call 4 action stuff is much better entertainment.

aamhf wrote:

They wouldn't last 1 hour at my job in the summer. 125 degrees in the plant, working with 2500 degree steel, wearing coveralls with the collar up so your neck doesn't get burned by scale..they should try it sometime before telling everybody we don't earn our money!

dont kid yourself thier are plenty of unemployed here that would gladly take your place

Here's the gravity of this situation that I believe some people do not quite understand yet, so I will try to put it in lamen terms.
Lets use GM and AAM as an example just so I can show what is going on in the auto sector. Currently General Motors can hire new workers to do non core work (such as building parts) for 14 dollars an hour. If American Axle can not compete with that wage than they might as well go bankrupt now, because economics 101 states that every business is going to find the cheapest way to run. So give it a couple of years and GM will be hiring a lot more people and a lot of part suppliers will be closing down.... That my friends is the gravity of the situation in the auto sector right now!!!

I have no pity for the american axle people who may lose their job if the plant closes.They went on strike because they are greedy.I think its about time that these factory workers try to live on the income level that the majority of the rest of the area pays.Not just this area either.In my opinion the unions share as much blame in the economy being so poor,costs rising to cover their idea of what salaries should be an insurance that is excessive.I will not shed one tear if this plant closes and Delphi for that matter.Just know that when the plant closes they have no one but themselves to blame.They are the ones who demanded ridiculous pay hikes,perks and refused to give any to keep their jobs.Yes,you went on strike for principle,I just hope you remember that principle when you are in the unemployment line.
Yes I know my opinion is not popular but good or bad it is how I feel.And I have seen proof of it over and over and over with more plants closing.You would think they would rather have a job at all instead of none.

misfitfan wrote:

I have no pity for the american axle people who may lose their job if the plant closes.They went on strike because they are greedy.I think its about time that these factory workers try to live on the income level that the majority of the rest of the area pays.Not just this area either.In my opinion the unions share as much blame in the economy being so poor,costs rising to cover their idea of what salaries should be an insurance that is excessive.I will not shed one tear if this plant closes and Delphi for that matter.Just know that when the plant closes they have no one but themselves to blame.They are the ones who demanded ridiculous pay hikes,perks and refused to give any to keep their jobs.Yes,you went on strike for principle,I just hope you remember that principle when you are in the unemployment line.
Yes I know my opinion is not popular but good or bad it is how I feel.And I have seen proof of it over and over and over with more plants closing.You would think they would rather have a job at all instead of none.

SoSoSo wrong...easy answer..wrong..

Go to uawlocal2093.com and click the link you can listen to Gettlefingers speech re the 200 million from GM it was an interview from this morning.
Dick is a joke!!

Chip wrote:

Could some of you union supports PLEASE learn economics, you ramble on about how you think unions affect the economy any you haven't got a clue.
It is impossible to explain all of the factors involved, but unions create unemployment.
Article from two econ proffesors at university of Chicago.
http://faculty.chicagogsb.edu/workshops/inter...
I don't expect you to read read and understand everything in the article, but the basic point is that there is a supply and demand curve for all labor just like any other product, the higher the price the less quantity demanded.
Conclusion from the paper:
"We conclude from this exercise that union-
mandated minimum wages provide a powerful mechanism for generating rest unemployment."
And before you make comments like that doesn't reflect real world, it is based on the laws of economics, which are as proven as the laws of physics, So if you don't believe either then jump out your window and test the law of gravity.

"And before you make comments like that doesn't reflect real world, it is based on the laws of economics, which are as proven as the laws of physics, So if you don't believe either then jump out your window and test the law of gravity."

To which I would submit to economics being a (scientific) "law"; "While economics has produced theories that correlate with observations of behavior in society, economics yields no natural laws or universal constants due to its reliance on non-physical arguments. This has led some critics to argue economics is not a science.[107][108] In general, economists reply that while this aspect may present serious difficulties, they do in fact test their hypotheses using statistical methods such as econometrics and data generated in the real world.[109] The field of experimental economics has seen efforts to test at least some predictions of economic theories in a simulated laboratory setting – an endeavor which earned Vernon Smith and Daniel Kahneman the Bank of Sweden Prize in Economic Sciences in Memory of Alfred Nobel in 2002.

Nobel Prize laureate and philosopher Friedrich Hayek thought that economics is a social science, but argued that the propensity to imitate the procedures of physical sciences in economics leads to outright error and is decidedly unscientific since it involves a mechanical and uncritical application of habits of thought to fields different from those in which they have been formed.[111]"

joe wrote:

You gotta face facts... the American (and Canadian) manufacturing base is disappearing. Jobs are being shipped to Mexico, China, India ... etc, etc... People in these countries will do the same work for a lot less pay, thats a fact and that is all I was trying to comment on.
AAM jobs will be gone soon too if the company can pay workers a lot less money in Mexico or any other country. So the point I am trying to get across it get a skill or education for a back up plan, but some people are resistant to that??? I dont know why anyone would not want to better themselves and stay in a stressfull situation wondering if they will have a job tomorrow???

AmericaMexiCanada a subsidiary of China Inc.

aam retiree wrote:

<quoted text>
Lori --it is a shame that all americans cannot get a living wage instead of having to work 2 jobs just to make ends meet. That is what the unions work for. Corporate profits come first and fair compensation to the people who do the tough labor to make the products they sell at a good profit, not so important.

My husband and I do have great paying jobs. We are both considering extra jobs to save a little extra money in our emergency fund. I honestly would tell people to take what they can get in wages. Regardless of what the government says, this economy will get much much worse!

Check out the latest in the negotiations:

AA&M has offered to accept the $200 million from GM in return for closing BOTH Tonawanda and Cheektowaga. Only the Detroit-area operations would remain to offer supplemental capacity to the Guanajuato plant in Mexico.

AA&M is closing up shop in WNY. We all saw this coming years ago, I don't understand why the UAW members seem to think that these plants are needed so bad. They have to rationalize capacity. Take your buyout and be happy.