Rural Metro contract expires

Lets see action wrote:

I think it's funny how everyone thinks that there's going to be a strike. I come from a union family and I support the union wholeheartedly. However, isn't it funny that there hasn't been a 10 day notice issued? We all voted to authorize a strike did we not? The company can bargain "In good faith" for the next fifteen years if it wants and as long as the union is making money off our backs they don't care. If this keeps up and the union sells us down the river lets all give ourselves a raise and decertify the union.

I agree, we were never going to strike, like one area manager put it, its a joke. I almost thought this union was going to help out, I almost jumped on the union`s band wagon, I thought we had a vote to authorize a strike! but instead we give the company more time, didn`t they have 5 years?
yes we should Decertify this union.

The union will not let us strike, we are their cash cow. Strike = no dues.

If we strike then both sides loose. Our goal should be, and for the majority of employees is, to force management back to the table to bargain in good faith, and according to updates from the negotiating team, we have succeeded.

We should not be looking to strike simply to hurt management. They'll still get paid, and probably get their bonuses too while we're earning unemployment and huddling around burn barrels to keep warm.

You need to understand that several important contracts were in jeopardy because of the potential for a strike. The Erie County Fair was only the tip of the iceberg. Management has allowed for a more stable environment by finally manning up and returning to the table to begin negotiations on the entire contract.

Here's the part of this post where I put in my disclaimers... First, I come from a big union family too. Second, I'd be one of the first people to picket William Gaiter Parkway, if it comes to a strike, and pull many hours on strike duty. Third, I'm no where near a fan of management- I've been screwed over by them more times then I can remember in the time that I've been at Rural/Metro.

However, just as management depends on us to earn their paychecks, we depend on them to negotiate contracts with municipalities and other cooperations so that we have places to work. If, hypothetically, R/M WNY were to loose a large number of contracts because of a strike or the threat of a strike then we could see layoffs. Trust me, they won't give up their bonuses to keep us around.

The union needs to be, and has been, the more level headed side of the negotiations. I do not think the negotiation team will hesitate to give strike notice if management fails to hold up their side of the deal, but we cannot be the aggressors in this. We need to give them time to work it out.

Besides, our raises should be retroactive to when the contract expired...

EMT-1 wrote:

The union will not let us strike, we are their cash cow. Strike = no dues.

We're not supposed to be paying dues while there is no contract. The Union looses out too.

memory lane wrote:

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They are NOT talking with us but they are making nasty comments. Do you know what one of metro's HR men said?? Direct quote from Adin Bradley called EMS providers a "bunch of uneducated retards". This is the compnay that does not think your life is worth anything.

and now he gets a promotion

Cheektowaga Medic wrote:

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We're not supposed to be paying dues while there is no contract. The Union looses out too.

yeah right retroactive pay! last contract we never got retroactive pay. chalk that up to our union also. I just don`t trust this company, I been a long time employee and I also been bent over by this company many times, and this union dose not impress me. If they allowed the current contract to be extended you can bet we still pay union dues.

The county should subsidize the ambulance with not one cent less than they give to the Bills, or cut the Bills off.

its a joke wrote:

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yeah right retroactive pay! last contract we never got retroactive pay. chalk that up to our union also. I just don`t trust this company, I been a long time employee and I also been bent over by this company many times, and this union dose not impress me. If they allowed the current contract to be extended you can bet we still pay union dues.

Just a few thoughts. The only reason anything is in jeopardy is because Todd engineered the jeopardy by his actions or lack thereof. I understand the argument about bringing stability to the strategic situation, however, it is difficult to stabilize something that we did not destabilize in the first place. If Kaleida and CHS are responsible stewards of their respective systems, unlike our leadership, they should already be looking for a second or third provider to help insulate themselves from the reckless and irresponsible behavior they have witnessed in the past weeks. Looking at things from an unemotional point of view we gave Todd a free ride for the summer which is our busiest and most manpower intensive time. If on day 89 we don’t have a contract, what then? By agreeing to this deal we have taken an enormous risk of coming up short in negotiations and not having the leverage necessary to close escrow in late September. Remember, the only reason we are even talking now is because of two overwhelming votes that put Todd under serious time pressure. In other words the reckless bravado backfired and He did not have time to stall. Now we have surrendered that leverage and given Todd exactly what he wanted, TIME! It will be a walk in the park for the company to agree to things here and there to maintain the appearance of good faith and stall on economics in September thereby not having to actually pony up with anything they have agreed to, absent a signed contract. On day 89 we will have the choice of another extension, and we can call it anything we like but that’s what it is, or we can serve the 10 day notice. Will we be in the same position with member support at that time? I hope I am wrong but based on past performance I don’t see genuine good faith coming in the next two months. If Todd actually believes “that one of our more lucrative contract hospitals was expendable” as stated in the Union letter of July 9, 2008 to Jack Brucker, what motivation is there for good faith? If revenue producing contracts are expendable than good faith is expendable also. If reckless disregard for the health and stability of the company was satisfactory in the last three months why is it different now? Kudos to our team for the hard work and long hours they have endured. As an aside, of course, any contract agreement must be retroactive to July 1, 2008 or no deal. Best wishes to all.

We should not let the part timers control our fate. We would be on the line and they will tell us would like to march with you but I have to go to work my full time job and feed my family ( glad I do this just for my fun money )

Hang in there guys.

its a joke wrote:

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I agree, we were never going to strike, like one area manager put it, its a joke. I almost thought this union was going to help out, I almost jumped on the union`s band wagon, I thought we had a vote to authorize a strike! but instead we give the company more time, didn`t they have 5 years?
yes we should Decertify this union.

We voted to authorize a strike, yes. If we had to. Don't you realize that a strike is the absolute last ditch option? The threat of a strike is the real tool, not actually walking out. Once people walk, all cards are on the table & we've got nothing. Management's back at the table BECAUSE 94% of our members said they'd walk if management wasn't willing to negotiate. That was our threat to the company & it worked. For those that didn't get or just didn't read the letter from the union, we are not under a contract extension now. An extension would bind us completely regardless of what the company did. Under the agreement, if the company screws around like they did before, our authorization to strike is still there and the agreement is null and void. If we're in a bad position now, please explain exactly how that is.

As far as turning around and saying that the union sucks now, have a little faith. For the past 8 or 9 months your negotiating team has been working on getting everyone a new contract. It's not an easy process and things are more complicated than they appear on the surface. The company's back at the table now & is now SCHEDULED to negotiate the whole contract. Explain how that's a bad thing. Yeah, it's a little later than everyone wanted, but we're here nonetheless. I don't get it... we threatened a strike with the purpose of getting the company to come back to the table... now that's been accomplished and people are pissed off anyway. The union is in a good position right now despite the rumors being spun by a lot of hot-headed pissed off people right now.

And please explain the logic of de-certifying the union who's team has worked their **** es off for the past few months on their own time without pay for the benefit of everyone. Talk about a thankless job... volunteer to help out - accomplish something after months of fighting with a stubborn management group - and get blasted by fellow employees no matter what - no wonder so few people actually get involved and the rest choose to armchair quarterback everything. Why don't you put things in perspective, look at some other companies and see just how "fast" negotiations usually happen... oh wait, they don't. Everything's a battle (but you won't see that because to tell you about what happens at the table is called "unfair labor practice") and it's not a quick process. Slow progress does not equal "union sucks." Hey thanks for the solid support and seeing the big picture.

Fire 962 wrote:

We should not let the part timers control our fate. We would be on the line and they will tell us would like to march with you but I have to go to work my full time job and feed my family ( glad I do this just for my fun money )
Hang in there guys.

What are you talking about? Which part timers?

Cheektowaga Medic wrote:

If we strike then both sides loose. Our goal should be, and for the majority of employees is, to force management back to the table to bargain in good faith, and according to updates from the negotiating team, we have succeeded.
We should not be looking to strike simply to hurt management. They'll still get paid, and probably get their bonuses too while we're earning unemployment and huddling around burn barrels to keep warm.
You need to understand that several important contracts were in jeopardy because of the potential for a strike. The Erie County Fair was only the tip of the iceberg. Management has allowed for a more stable environment by finally manning up and returning to the table to begin negotiations on the entire contract.
Here's the part of this post where I put in my disclaimers... First, I come from a big union family too. Second, I'd be one of the first people to picket William Gaiter Parkway, if it comes to a strike, and pull many hours on strike duty. Third, I'm no where near a fan of management- I've been screwed over by them more times then I can remember in the time that I've been at Rural/Metro.
However, just as management depends on us to earn their paychecks, we depend on them to negotiate contracts with municipalities and other cooperations so that we have places to work. If, hypothetically, R/M WNY were to loose a large number of contracts because of a strike or the threat of a strike then we could see layoffs. Trust me, they won't give up their bonuses to keep us around.
The union needs to be, and has been, the more level headed side of the negotiations. I do not think the negotiation team will hesitate to give strike notice if management fails to hold up their side of the deal, but we cannot be the aggressors in this. We need to give them time to work it out.
Besides, our raises should be retroactive to when the contract expired...

The management has allowed a more stable environment? They only came back to the table to bargain "in good faith" so the union would sell us out for the right price. The days of the Teamsters backing their members in the street and actually having a backbone are long behind them I'm afraid. We'd get more play if we work brown uniforms, lets work on that. Of course they got their three month extension, we might as well have approved it. But of course we didn't get to vote on that now did we. Have you taken a gander at the number of open shifts lately? They're cutting cars like madmen so they can break the union because part-time folks like myself pretty much get left off the schedule. When are we all going to band together and say enough is enough. Perhaps you're right, maybe a strike isn't the answer. But isn't anyone else sick of being treated like **** and driving corner to corner all day? Quite honestly, the union dues would amount to ten percent of my pay if I didn't work extra shifts. So everyone has to ask themselves, would I like a ten percent raise? Or would I like to keep paying the union to let management make the decisons they would make anyway.

Company got what they wanted, no suprise. They can bargain in so called "good faith", until the swallows come back from Capistrano.

Lets see action wrote:

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Quite honestly, the union dues would amount to ten percent of my pay if I didn't work extra shifts. So everyone has to ask themselves, would I like a ten percent raise? Or would I like to keep paying the union to let management make the decisons they would make anyway.

What do you know, someone who did the math. 10% or 3% that is a no brainer, let's give them the boot.

Right, because it's that simple. And how do you think this would have gone without a union at all? Are you under the impression that the union hasn't been fighting the company all along and wouldn't have gone along with something unless it was for everyone's benefit? The negotiating team and the membership are in the same boat my friend. Why would they give up now after fighting for months? Oh wait, they didn't... but apparently some people have.

NYS Medic wrote:

Right, because it's that simple. And how do you think this would have gone without a union at all? Are you under the impression that the union hasn't been fighting the company all along and wouldn't have gone along with something unless it was for everyone's benefit? The negotiating team and the membership are in the same boat my friend. Why would they give up now after fighting for months? Oh wait, they didn't... but apparently some people have.

Fight is what the Unions do. What happend to the union BS line that we want to work with the company. All the unions do is protect the lazy and reckless. They don't do anthing for except take my money becuse I come to work and do my job.

I believe you'll find a few thousand people in unions that'll disagree with you. I don't consider myself to be lazy or reckless, I just understand that when a corporation's bottom line is always $ and nothing else, there has to be a balancing force.

I never used to consider myself a union guy either...I've never needed a steward's representation... but I saw what happened to other people who just came in to do their job. Unfortunately yes, at times the union is put in the position of a creepy defense lawyer...the flip side of that is that the union is the only thing in some cases that'll make sure honest workers still have a job, too. Is it worth the cost? Probably not until you need it.

Fire 962 you are a wrong again. The union protects the workers from the scum management team that is out to screw every employee out of every penny they can. And if you think this management team is anything above scum you need to look again unless you are in bed with them. These people have no shame, the scams I have seen them pull have only become worse since old richie and adin are without adult supervison. It wouldn't be long at all before these "Leaders" lead the company right out of business. We didn't get here just because of bad luck, it is very very poor management. Don't think so look at their past records, yeah there you go!

NYS Medic wrote:

Right, because it's that simple. And how do you think this would have gone without a union at all? Are you under the impression that the union hasn't been fighting the company all along and wouldn't have gone along with something unless it was for everyone's benefit? The negotiating team and the membership are in the same boat my friend. Why would they give up now after fighting for months? Oh wait, they didn't... but apparently some people have.

The Union is fighting just as hard for this contract as they did the last one... Oh wait. I guess past practice does dictate future results. I am in no way downplaying the fact that Union has been working on our behalf because they have. They have no backing from the international to take a harder line thanks to our fantastic government that supports big business and frowns upon organized labor, so there's a bigger arena at hand here. I respect our stewards and the people trying hard to negotiate a good contract for us. I only wish the political situation was a bit different so they had the proper tools they need to do their job.

Interesting discussion here. Brings back lots of memories from another time- same company, different part of NY. Decert was the best thing we ever did- got us bigger paychecks without the dues, and a chance to work closer WITH management instead of us fighting all the time. Not saying it will work for you, but at least be informed and ask around.