Palin facing voters who doubt her readiness

Actually, Nam Vet, you're the one who has it bass-ackwards...Webb-Hagel were first:

http://www.veteranstoday.com/modules.php...

John McCain and Lindsey Graham (from South Carolina) and Richard Burr of North Carolina, offered their own version of the bill with the intent of circumventing the effectiveness of the The Webb-Hagel bill. The Webb-Hagel bill had the support of nearly every veterans' group, including VoteVets.org , and 57 Senators from both sides of the aisle. That is with good reason - it is a common-sense, well-crafted piece of legislation that honors our veterans.

1) The McCain-Graham-Burr legislation creates a flat education benefit, not taking into account the cost of state colleges where veterans live. This would mean veterans in states where the cost of education is higher than the benefit would have go to into debt to get an education, or uproot themselves and their families to move to a place where the benefit would cover college. In many cases, the McCain bill won't even cover half the cost of college. The Webb-Hagel Bill determines the education benefit based on the highest state college tuition in a veterans' home state, allowing veterans to come home and attend college, without upheaval in their lives.

2) The McCain-Graham-Burr legislation creates second-class veterans, by offering those who serve in the military for 12 years the chance to transfer their education benefits to their children. This says to a veteran who serves for two years and loses both of his legs in combat that his service isn't as valuable as someone who has served for longer.

3) The McCain-Graham-Burr legislation leaves the National Guard and Reserve out in the cold. In the current conflicts, the National Guard and Reserve have served faithfully alongside their active duty compatriots, and deserve equal benefits. Yet, the McCain bill does nothing to reward our Guard and Reservists for their cumulative service. Under the McCain bill, over 160,000 members of the Guard and Reserves who have done more than one tour in Iraq or Afghanistan would get no credit towards an education for their additional sacrifice.

McCain Bill introduced April 29 2008:

http://www.govtrack.us/congress/billtext.xpd...

The Webb-Hagel bill? S-22, was introduced on January 4 2007. Then modified and re-presented April 9, 2008:

http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bill.xpd...

Sorry Biker, McCain has a history of not supporting veterans, and being DAV, I am holding that against him...

Honesty above all wrote:

Actually, Nam Vet, you're the one who has it bass-ackwards...Webb-Hagel were first:
http://www.veteranstoday.com/modules.php...
John McCain and Lindsey Graham (from South Carolina) and Richard Burr of North Carolina, offered their own version of the bill with the intent of circumventing the effectiveness of the The Webb-Hagel bill. The Webb-Hagel bill had the support of nearly every veterans' group, including VoteVets.org , and 57 Senators from both sides of the aisle. That is with good reason - it is a common-sense, well-crafted piece of legislation that honors our veterans.
1) The McCain-Graham-Burr legislation creates a flat education benefit, not taking into account the cost of state colleges where veterans live. This would mean veterans in states where the cost of education is higher than the benefit would have go to into debt to get an education, or uproot themselves and their families to move to a place where the benefit would cover college. In many cases, the McCain bill won't even cover half the cost of college. The Webb-Hagel Bill determines the education benefit based on the highest state college tuition in a veterans' home state, allowing veterans to come home and attend college, without upheaval in their lives.
2) The McCain-Graham-Burr legislation creates second-class veterans, by offering those who serve in the military for 12 years the chance to transfer their education benefits to their children. This says to a veteran who serves for two years and loses both of his legs in combat that his service isn't as valuable as someone who has served for longer.
3) The McCain-Graham-Burr legislation leaves the National Guard and Reserve out in the cold. In the current conflicts, the National Guard and Reserve have served faithfully alongside their active duty compatriots, and deserve equal benefits. Yet, the McCain bill does nothing to reward our Guard and Reservists for their cumulative service. Under the McCain bill, over 160,000 members of the Guard and Reserves who have done more than one tour in Iraq or Afghanistan would get no credit towards an education for their additional sacrifice.
McCain Bill introduced April 29 2008:
http://www.govtrack.us/congress/billtext.xpd...
The Webb-Hagel bill? S-22, was introduced on January 4 2007. Then modified and re-presented April 9, 2008:
http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bill.xpd...
Sorry Biker, McCain has a history of not supporting veterans, and being DAV, I am holding that against him...

Nice job, thanks.

Honesty above all wrote:

Actually, Nam Vet, you're the one who has it bass-ackwards...Webb-Hagel were first:
http://www.veteranstoday.com/modules.php...
John McCain and Lindsey Graham (from South Carolina) and Richard Burr of North Carolina, offered their own version of the bill with the intent of circumventing the effectiveness of the The Webb-Hagel bill. The Webb-Hagel bill had the support of nearly every veterans' group, including VoteVets.org , and 57 Senators from both sides of the aisle. That is with good reason - it is a common-sense, well-crafted piece of legislation that honors our veterans.
1) The McCain-Graham-Burr legislation creates a flat education benefit, not taking into account the cost of state colleges where veterans live. This would mean veterans in states where the cost of education is higher than the benefit would have go to into debt to get an education, or uproot themselves and their families to move to a place where the benefit would cover college. In many cases, the McCain bill won't even cover half the cost of college. The Webb-Hagel Bill determines the education benefit based on the highest state college tuition in a veterans' home state, allowing veterans to come home and attend college, without upheaval in their lives.
2) The McCain-Graham-Burr legislation creates second-class veterans, by offering those who serve in the military for 12 years the chance to transfer their education benefits to their children. This says to a veteran who serves for two years and loses both of his legs in combat that his service isn't as valuable as someone who has served for longer.
3) The McCain-Graham-Burr legislation leaves the National Guard and Reserve out in the cold. In the current conflicts, the National Guard and Reserve have served faithfully alongside their active duty compatriots, and deserve equal benefits. Yet, the McCain bill does nothing to reward our Guard and Reservists for their cumulative service. Under the McCain bill, over 160,000 members of the Guard and Reserves who have done more than one tour in Iraq or Afghanistan would get no credit towards an education for their additional sacrifice.
McCain Bill introduced April 29 2008:
http://www.govtrack.us/congress/billtext.xpd...
The Webb-Hagel bill? S-22, was introduced on January 4 2007. Then modified and re-presented April 9, 2008:
http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bill.xpd...
Sorry Biker, McCain has a history of not supporting veterans, and being DAV, I am holding that against him...

Write your congress people then boys, with expectations that common sense be restored in this country again.

Some of America's best and brightest folks for
Sarah Palin, doncha know:
http://www.youtube.com/watch...

Amazing, aren't they?
And they all ran home to listen to Rush, Hannity,
O'Reilly and Savage.

FlyingDefibrilator wrote:

Some of America's best and brightest folks for
Sarah Palin, doncha know:
http://www.youtube.com/watch...
Amazing, aren't they?
And they all ran home to listen to Rush, Hannity,
O'Reilly and Savage.

From the FBI - 82% of people that listen to Rush, Hannity, O'Reilly, and Savage can't tell what they are listening to. Their ears no longer work due to excessive wanking.

Bad feeling. Obama ( probably ) wins , and the country, already headed toward scocialistic
tendencies ( govt ownership in banks ) becomes
even more disenchanted, and the hostility will spill from the blogs into real life. It doesn't matter if Obama wins, the result will be the same.
But he probably will win.
And then, chaos.
"See? I told you all. That liberal raghead ...", and so on.
Yeah, somewhere, someway, this was planned. And the nominees have little to do with it.
I'll sprinkle a little fascism in as well. Just for a little flavor.

Honesty above all wrote:

Actually, Nam Vet, you're the one who has it bass-ackwards...Webb-Hagel were first:
http://www.veteranstoday.com/modules.php...
John McCain and Lindsey Graham (from South Carolina) and Richard Burr of North Carolina, offered their own version of the bill with the intent of circumventing the effectiveness of the The Webb-Hagel bill. The Webb-Hagel bill had the support of nearly every veterans' group, including VoteVets.org , and 57 Senators from both sides of the aisle. That is with good reason - it is a common-sense, well-crafted piece of legislation that honors our veterans.
1) The McCain-Graham-Burr legislation creates a flat education benefit, not taking into account the cost of state colleges where veterans live. This would mean veterans in states where the cost of education is higher than the benefit would have go to into debt to get an education, or uproot themselves and their families to move to a place where the benefit would cover college. In many cases, the McCain bill won't even cover half the cost of college. The Webb-Hagel Bill determines the education benefit based on the highest state college tuition in a veterans' home state, allowing veterans to come home and attend college, without upheaval in their lives.
2) The McCain-Graham-Burr legislation creates second-class veterans, by offering those who serve in the military for 12 years the chance to transfer their education benefits to their children. This says to a veteran who serves for two years and loses both of his legs in combat that his service isn't as valuable as someone who has served for longer.
3) The McCain-Graham-Burr legislation leaves the National Guard and Reserve out in the cold. In the current conflicts, the National Guard and Reserve have served faithfully alongside their active duty compatriots, and deserve equal benefits. Yet, the McCain bill does nothing to reward our Guard and Reservists for their cumulative service. Under the McCain bill, over 160,000 members of the Guard and Reserves who have done more than one tour in Iraq or Afghanistan would get no credit towards an education for their additional sacrifice.
McCain Bill introduced April 29 2008:
http://www.govtrack.us/congress/billtext.xpd...
The Webb-Hagel bill? S-22, was introduced on January 4 2007. Then modified and re-presented April 9, 2008:
http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bill.xpd...
Sorry Biker, McCain has a history of not supporting veterans, and being DAV, I am holding that against him...

First let me say I respect your opinions and your sacrifice to our great country. To understand where I'm coming from I respectfully request you go to the link I provide and read the article written by a young Marine whose views closely, but not completely, reflect mine. He states the case much better than I could ever and please pay attention to the paragraph where he talks about the people who enlist for the wrong reasons, such as educational benefits, health insurance, job security, and money. This Marine also states that he is not the biggest McCain supporter on many issues, again he reflects my view there too. Obviously your case is different being a DAV. You probably are much more dependant on veterans benefits than the majority of veterans and I sympathize with you on those issues and I understand where you are coming from and but for the grace of God I could be in your shoes. I agree that all veterans with special needs who require special services should be given everything and all they require and I pray whomever wins this election will see fit to provide those benefits.
http://blog.myspace.com/index.cfm...

NAM VET BIKER wrote:

<quoted text>
First let me say I respect your opinions and your sacrifice to our great country. To understand where I'm coming from I respectfully request you go to the link I provide and read the article written by a young Marine whose views closely, but not completely, reflect mine. He states the case much better than I could ever and please pay attention to the paragraph where he talks about the people who enlist for the wrong reasons, such as educational benefits, health insurance, job security, and money. This Marine also states that he is not the biggest McCain supporter on many issues, again he reflects my view there too. Obviously your case is different being a DAV. You probably are much more dependant on veterans benefits than the majority of veterans and I sympathize with you on those issues and I understand where you are coming from and but for the grace of God I could be in your shoes. I agree that all veterans with special needs who require special services should be given everything and all they require and I pray whomever wins this election will see fit to provide those benefits.
http://blog.myspace.com/index.cfm...

I promise I will take the time to read it tomorrow. I have followed your opinions and others very closely, and I don't intend to try and sway opinion either way...Truth be told, I, along with you haven't come to a single conclusion on who is more worthy of my vote. In all honesty, I most likely will not make my final decision until I physically cast my vote.

I do know this much though. Once the election is over, I'm quite sure we will all be overcome with a feeling of complacency, as with every election...we will accept the outcome, and personally make the most of it.

For every veterans issue out there, we are now faced with an economic one. For every social issue, we are faced with tax cut or increase...It's really a shame that so much emphasis is placed on the character of one man...Ain't research a bitc#?

Leave, coach/crotch. Unwanted.

Honesty above all wrote:

<quoted text>
I promise I will take the time to read it tomorrow. I have followed your opinions and others very closely, and I don't intend to try and sway opinion either way...Truth be told, I, along with you haven't come to a single conclusion on who is more worthy of my vote. In all honesty, I most likely will not make my final decision until I physically cast my vote.
I do know this much though. Once the election is over, I'm quite sure we will all be overcome with a feeling of complacency, as with every election...we will accept the outcome, and personally make the most of it.
For every veterans issue out there, we are now faced with an economic one. For every social issue, we are faced with tax cut or increase...It's really a shame that so much emphasis is placed on the character of one man...Ain't research a bitc#?

I believe whomever wins the election we will all lose. In this economic disaster, if Obama wins I think he will cut defense, intell, and vets benefits. If McCain wins I think he may also cut vets benefits but leave defense alone. I have heard and seen so many campaign promises broken on both sides over the years it's hard to trust any of them.

NAM VET BIKER wrote:

<quoted text>
I believe whomever wins the election we will all lose. In this economic disaster, if Obama wins I think he will cut defense, intell, and vets benefits. If McCain wins I think he may also cut vets benefits but leave defense alone. I have heard and seen so many campaign promises broken on both sides over the years it's hard to trust any of them.

Biker...I went and read the blog you suggested. Having been a marine myself, I really wasn't all that surprised at what I read. Substitute some of the names and locations, and it's pretty much the way I remember a time long ago.

I went one step further and visited the young marine's myspace page as well.

Fisrt, and most importantly though, I don't think I could use his blog or myspace to support an opinion. I'm sure you realize, there are several reasons for this.

In the military, of course you are fed a steady diet of hearing, "we're doing the righteous and noble deed". Truth be told, an extremely high amount of service people tend to side with Conservative values, not to mention the oath to follow the Commander in Chief we all took. I for one, still value that principle, whether it be Dem or Republican, and I'm sure you do as well.

But after visiting his myspace, it brings to the forefront what I will call the "OoohRah" factor...That comraderie, Esprit de Corps, and sense of being "lean, green and mean"...that gets imbedded in a young man's mind, that convinces him that he's somehow invincible, and ready to take on all the challenges in the world. This young man's view hasn't been jaded by living a lifetime of experiences and setbacks, of seeing what politics and corruption and living that sense of despair as you realize you personally have to accept the hand your dealt year after year...He doesn't understand the feeling of cynicism or the pangs of skepticism that old grunts like us have learned through the years.

You know as well as I do, that when you're a member of that, you look upon anyone who isn't with a certain degree of disdain...Even looking down upon fellow servicemen with less time inc country was and probably still is very common,(Think "FNG" or "cherry" as I referred to them), and it's probably been the practice since the Revolution...I recall a joke from years ago...The definition of a boot Marine? Is a guy who graduated from Parris Island the day after you.

I could go on and on why I empathize but don't agree with this young man's one-sided outlook.

As much as I would like to be alongside this man, doing what every American should be doing, I can't consider his view to alter mine. Our discussion, and difference of opinion, rests squarely on what John McCain has shown me, that being his failure to support veteran programs...Did I say I didn't value his military service? No...Did I say that I respected Obama and thought he would be a better CIC? No...

But what I heard and seen from McCain so far, is a history of backing corporate support, over veteran support...Biker, I want you to understand that I still have that "OoohRah" factor inside me, I just have grown up enough to not emotion override my judgement.

Of the 20 richest people in America 12 are for Obama and have donated money and paid more in taxes than All of Alaska put together.

While John McCain wants the Government to "buy" up the foreclosed houses. They do that in Cuba, they do that in China, they do they in North Korea not in America. McCain is a socialist, communist is sheeps clothing.

List of to 12 Billionares that support Obama.

William Gates III
Warren Buffett
Lawrence Ellison
Paul Allen
Sergey Brin
Larry Page
Michael Dell
Sheldon Adelson
Steven Ballmer
Abigail Johnson
Jack Taylor
Anne Cox Chambers

http://www.forbes.com/2008/09/16/forbes-400-b...

FlyingDefibrilator wrote:

Some of America's best and brightest folks for
Sarah Palin, doncha know:
http://www.youtube.com/watch...
Amazing, aren't they?
And they all ran home to listen to Rush, Hannity,
O'Reilly and Savage.

Speechless.
Yikes!

from the irs - 100 % of honest tax payers in america want to keep their hard earned income - and not give it away to other who did not earn any money ! it is called wealth distribution by the LEFT !

No WAY

**********

Life Crotch wrote:

<quoted text>
From the FBI - 82% of people that listen to Rush, Hannity, O'Reilly, and Savage can't tell what they are listening to. Their ears no longer work due to excessive wanking.

All of this Hogwash about Obama.

He is a US CITIZEN, get over your foolish right wing talk points

http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/born_...

TheAntiObiden wrote:

from the irs - 100 % of honest tax payers in america want to keep their hard earned income - and not give it away to other who did not earn any money ! it is called wealth distribution by the LEFT !
No WAY
**********
<quoted text>

Maybe Joe the Plumber ought to pay his taxes so the politicians can give it away. Did you know he is a no-pay?

One of the almighty political parties really should come up with an effective health insurence plan for the REAL independent, small business people of America. Neither side has yet to come up with an affordable solution.

Answers to issues, mud slinging belongs in a school yard.

Honesty above all wrote:

<quoted text>
Biker...I went and read the blog you suggested. Having been a marine myself, I really wasn't all that surprised at what I read. Substitute some of the names and locations, and it's pretty much the way I remember a time long ago.
I went one step further and visited the young marine's myspace page as well.
Fisrt, and most importantly though, I don't think I could use his blog or myspace to support an opinion. I'm sure you realize, there are several reasons for this.
In the military, of course you are fed a steady diet of hearing, "we're doing the righteous and noble deed". Truth be told, an extremely high amount of service people tend to side with Conservative values, not to mention the oath to follow the Commander in Chief we all took. I for one, still value that principle, whether it be Dem or Republican, and I'm sure you do as well.
But after visiting his myspace, it brings to the forefront what I will call the "OoohRah" factor...That comraderie, Esprit de Corps, and sense of being "lean, green and mean"...that gets imbedded in a young man's mind, that convinces him that he's somehow invincible, and ready to take on all the challenges in the world. This young man's view hasn't been jaded by living a lifetime of experiences and setbacks, of seeing what politics and corruption and living that sense of despair as you realize you personally have to accept the hand your dealt year after year...He doesn't understand the feeling of cynicism or the pangs of skepticism that old grunts like us have learned through the years.
You know as well as I do, that when you're a member of that, you look upon anyone who isn't with a certain degree of disdain...Even looking down upon fellow servicemen with less time inc country was and probably still is very common,(Think "FNG" or "cherry" as I referred to them), and it's probably been the practice since the Revolution...I recall a joke from years ago...The definition of a boot Marine? Is a guy who graduated from Parris Island the day after you.

Honesty,
Like I said before, I respect your opinions and by no means am I trying to change your views, and I am not doubting your patriotism one bit. You, above anybody, are high on my respect list. You have valid points. I was just trying to show you that there are other opinions and views out there and I said I didn't agree with all he had to say either. You are also right about the brainwashing that a boot goes through which almost makes one feel they are invincible until the reality hits in a combat zone where you are brought back to reality real quick. You are absolutely right in what you said about McCain's support of veterans, he absolutely could do better. I'm looking at a bigger picture, more than just the veterans issues. Like I said there are other McCain issues I also don't agree with but I there is just too much unknown and unproven about the other candidate and I feel that his first cuts would be national defense issues and veterans benefits. I want you to know that whatever the circumstance I'm on your side and I've got your back even if we disagree on this issue. I also remember when I was brand new In-country and called a FNG, I didn't even know what it meant. I asked the guy who was calling me that and he told me. I asked him how long had he been in Nam, he answered.... "two weeks". Welcome home Bro' and Semper Fi.

The intellectual and intelligent people will vote for Obama/Biden. The ones with LOW IQ's will vote for McShame/McLipstik.

MsRotten wrote:

The intellectual and intelligent people will vote for Obama/Biden. The ones with LOW IQ's will vote for McShame/McLipstik.

Yes you are correct there Rotten.

First Joe B. asks a paraplegic to stand and get recognized.

Then this. To quote Joe Biden " it happens to be, as Barack says, a three letter word, jobs, J-O-B-S".