Virginia set to execute convicted killer Tuesday

Concerned in Twin Cities wrote:

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You mean you'd rather see 100 guilty NOT be executed then one innocent person be executed. I'd be careful about being willing to cut loose 100 guilty individuals. That's potential for another 100+ murders originating from those who are guilty of murder. I would not be willing to see another 100+ murders committed by repeat offenders in order to save one innocent person. Those odds really are unacceptable to me.

I would rather see 100 guilty go FREE from any punishment than have 1 innocent be CONVICTED.

Me, personaly, I do not fear the 5% of defectives. I can defend me and mine against them.

I fear a corrupted Law Enforcement Industry that does not allow me to protect myself from the 5% of defectives.
I fear financial ruin for my family if I do protect my family or myself, and I am found somehow wrong, and need to defend myself in a system where justice today is only purchased with enough money.
I do not fear the 5% of defectives, as much as I fear a Law Enforcement Industry that would be # 30 something on the "Fortune 500 List", if it were not a "Government Industry".
An entity paid to protect, that comes to the scene of death, rape, destruction...AFTER THE FACT, and criminalizes those that actualy stop the attack,(Unless the defender of his family Knows the Millions of laws that apply).

I fear the foolishness of my neighbors that allow the Ruling Class to treat them as serfs, feeding the system with their labor, and thier lives, if the customer base runs to low (Make more laws...Create more criminals)

I fear that the ignorant Kill-um-All Types that post here about what they would do if they were King or Queen, represent way to many in or society that are equally ignorant.

lonely vindictive loser wrote:

hey, did yall know it costs more to execute someone than it does to keep them in prison for life?

Hmm... Wouldn't that depend on how long of a life the convict lives?

I was just thinking (and that is a good thing, lol). I'm thinking that reasons for abolishing capital punishment states that formerly had it might have indeed been due to executing an innocent. I'd have to read up on that. But in the event that ever happens in the states using capital punishment I can't think of a better reason they would use to abolish it after that. In that case, the loss of an innocent would indeed save the lives of any future innocents that might have been executed. That should be a more acceptable scenario to accept. The death of the innocent would not be in vain.

SC Midtown wrote:

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Too bad statistics prove you ALL WRONG. Are murders and violent crime down in numbers? How about it states like Florida and Texas where they execute almost weekly? If the answer is no (which it likely is), well, there went your argument of execution being used as a deterrent! Why is it that we're the only developed nation that still engages in this barbaric practice? What does that say about us as a people?

Let us be judged by the company we keep.....

"In reality, the vast majority of the world’s executions are carried out by seven nations: China, Iran, Saudi Arabia, the United States, Pakistan, Yemen, and Vietnam.

The Roper Court noted that only seven countries had executed juvenile offenders since 1990: Iran, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, Yemen, Nigeria, the Democratic Republic of Congo, and China. But even those countries had disavowed the practice in recent years, leaving the United States as “the only country in the world that continues to give official sanction to the juvenile death penalty.

Dozens of prisoners suffering from schizophrenia, bipolar disorder, and other incapacitating mental illnesses have been executed in the United States during the last ten years."

Is it any wonder the civilized countries of the world look at us with disdain. About the only thing we are good for to them is tourist revenue.

Penny wrote:

<quoted text>
Let us be judged by the company we keep.....
"In reality, the vast majority of the world’s executions are carried out by seven nations: China, Iran, Saudi Arabia, the United States, Pakistan, Yemen, and Vietnam.
The Roper Court noted that only seven countries had executed juvenile offenders since 1990: Iran, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, Yemen, Nigeria, the Democratic Republic of Congo, and China. But even those countries had disavowed the practice in recent years, leaving the United States as “the only country in the world that continues to give official sanction to the juvenile death penalty.
Dozens of prisoners suffering from schizophrenia, bipolar disorder, and other incapacitating mental illnesses have been executed in the United States during the last ten years."
Is it any wonder the civilized countries of the world look at us with disdain. About the only thing we are good for to them is tourist revenue.

The billions of $$$ we pay out in foreign aid says you're wrong about tourism being the only thing we're good for to other countries. I'd be happy if they quit doing that any time because more times then not the $$$ ends up in the pockets of dictators anyway. We also subsidize the world's drugs (prescription type) so they can get theirs' so much cheaper then we do. These days with terrorism being what it is, I'll bet there's a whole lot of us who wouldn't be a tourist in many areas of the world. This country deserves a whole lot more respect then what you seem to be willing to give it.

105 comments so far, and yet not one mention of the name "Patricia Vaughan". She's the woman who WAS a mother, a wife, a hard working convenience store owner whose life was taken by this animal who you are all so concerned about.

To all of you who preach to us that the families of the victims receive no comfort from the execution of the murderers, I find the following AP report telling:

"Marcia Brown said watching her mother's killer die was bittersweet.

'My mom went in such a tragic way and he just laid on the table and that was it," said Brown, who witnessed the execution with her sister, father, husband, stepmother and two local officials. "It was just going to sleep. That really haunts me.' "

Sounds to me like this poor daughter would have liked to have seen even harsher treatment for this animal prior to his execution.

By the way, for all you sanctimonious preachers who love to tell us all how the rest of the "civilized world" looks down upon the USA because we occasionally carry out an execution, did you even bother to Google "Patricia Vaughan" and spend thirty seconds finding out about the victim, and about the family whose lives are forever shattered?

I imagine not. That doesn't fit in with your agenda. Perhaps you should spend more energy being concerned for the families of real life victims and less about the opinions of countries who love to look down their noses in scorn at the big, bad USA...until they need us.

And here's more from the AP story about the animal whose life you so strongly mourn:

"Green shot Patricia and Lawrence Vaughan and stole $9,000 from their convenience store in rural Dolphin, more than 50 miles south of Richmond. Patricia Vaughan, 53, was shot four times and died at the scene. Lawrence Vaughan was shot twice but survived. He was in a Richmond hospital when they buried his wife.

Police say Green confessed, telling them he and his nephew took a bus to northern Virginia and blew all but $170 of the $9,000 they stole on prostitutes, marijuana and clothes."

By the way, ANONYMOUS, you can sit back in your cushy chair and make all your "I would rather have 100 guilty set free, than have one innocent wrongly put to death" hypothetical parlor game arguments, but in this actual, real life case, the murderer confessed and never recanted his confession. The appeals were all about his supposed mental incompetency, or the usual "juror problems" that attorneys love to drudge up. Time and again, the conviction was upheld.

So, ANONYMOUS, while YOU wring your hands in your soul-wrenching concern for that "wrongfully convicted" murderer, this one particular murderous animal is where he belongs. Dead. And if there is a hell...burning in it.

Think about it again....105 posts, and not a single mention of the victim or her family.

Shameful.

Anonymous wrote:

<quoted text>
That's easy. I would want life in prison for the murderer. To me, that would be a far greater punishment than death. As far as I know, there is no suffering after death, but there's plenty of it in jail.

Do you ever watch documentaries on prison life? It doesn't look all that bad to me; prisoners certainly aren't "suffering." You have TV, outdoor activities, 3 hots and a cot - all rent free. And for those prisoners who don't have these things while in prison - they did something while in prison to deserve it.

And no, I wouldn't want to be there, but I don't have to worry about it. Other than occasionally speeding, I don't break the law.

Reckless Abandon wrote:

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Of course, any opinion contrary to yours MUST be shaped by ignorance (I'm rolling my eyes here). What a burden your vast enlightenment must on you. Coddle all the criminals you want, you are out of step with most of the rest of this country on this issue. The rest of us understand accountability.

Without referring to me at all, just answer the question. Why are Americans so hell-bent on the death penalty? Are our violent crime rates down as a result? Does it work as a deterrent? Why are we the only developed nation still practicing what the rest of our nation counterparts did away with so long ago?

I await your answers to these simple questions for those of you who are ardent supporters of the death penalty.

SC Midtown wrote:

<quoted text>
Without referring to me at all, just answer the question. Why are Americans so hell-bent on the death penalty? Are our violent crime rates down as a result? Does it work as a deterrent? Why are we the only developed nation still practicing what the rest of our nation counterparts did away with so long ago?
I await your answers to these simple questions for those of you who are ardent supporters of the death penalty.

We are hell bent on the death penalty because we are fed up with the criminal element, Whether crime rate is up or down does not matter, The executed one will never commit another crime, And you can rest assured that the other countries still have a crime problem. No need to attack my post as I only answered your questions, and I will not debate on this anymore. As far as I am concerned for me it is over.

tom H wrote:

<quoted text>
We are hell bent on the death penalty because we are fed up with the criminal element, Whether crime rate is up or down does not matter, The executed one will never commit another crime, And you can rest assured that the other countries still have a crime problem. No need to attack my post as I only answered your questions, and I will not debate on this anymore. As far as I am concerned for me it is over.

Your logic is telling. So whether the crime rate is up or down does not matter? This most certainly sounds like it's more of a retribution/revenge issue then.

Interestingly enough, you and other posters mentioned that the executed will no longer be able to commit crimes in society and that's satisfactory grounds for the execution. However, would the same not be true if they were removed from society entirely, i.e. incarcerated for life?

Anonymous wrote:

<quoted text>
Your post started off rational and well thought out. You set yourself up for a good argument of your views. But then you lost me when you lumped all death penalty opponents as "self absorbed saviours of the human race" and "...so righteous". I consider myself neither a saviour nor righteous. I'm just as imperfect as you and everyone else posting on this board. And if I may go even further, I am agnostic, so religion does not play into my opinions.
In regards to your bully analogy. I don't think I ever said ignore them. By all means, arrest and punish them. What I am saying is why kill them? And in killing them, if you accidentally take out the innocent neighbor, well that is, in my opinion, not acceptable.

Thanks for your response.

The argument has flaws on both sides.

And you, too, are correct in mind and spirit.

But, I, sadly tend to look at what do we do with
the mad dogs of society that have torn the faces
off of child humanity.

In THIS argument analogy, I compare maddog killers
to mad DOG killers. We wouldn't hesitate
to eliminate a dangerous animal.
We certainly find no benefit in keeping it alive, do we?

If a man
has proven his worth that he kills mercilessly and would kill you too, given the opportunity to benefit his murderous thrill,

why prolong this consumption of resources keeping
these rabid animals alive.

Would you care to shoulder the financial reponsibility to keep these kinds in jail forever?

You're asking me to.

I do believe in a higher power. Call it God if you
wish.

But my inner voice tells me to protect even the other
prisoners from defective miscreants by making THIS
problem a non-issue.

Case by case.

Turn the page. One less defective BAD thing.

Gone. Fini.

I know we're not going to change each other's mind.

So let's agree to disagree.

But my way would most certainly save an inocent's life if that problem were elimanated at the start by removing the cancer. I would not happen again.

My opinion.

Bottle Rocket wrote:

105 comments so far, and yet not one mention of the name "Patricia Vaughan". She's the woman who WAS a mother, a wife, a hard working convenience store owner whose life was taken by this animal who you are all so concerned about.
To all of you who preach to us that the families of the victims receive no comfort from the execution of the murderers, I find the following AP report telling:
"Marcia Brown said watching her mother's killer die was bittersweet.
'My mom went in such a tragic way and he just laid on the table and that was it," said Brown, who witnessed the execution with her sister, father, husband, stepmother and two local officials. "It was just going to sleep. That really haunts me.' "
Sounds to me like this poor daughter would have liked to have seen even harsher treatment for this animal prior to his execution.
By the way, for all you sanctimonious preachers who love to tell us all how the rest of the "civilized world" looks down upon the USA because we occasionally carry out an execution, did you even bother to Google "Patricia Vaughan" and spend thirty seconds finding out about the victim, and about the family whose lives are forever shattered?
I imagine not. That doesn't fit in with your agenda. Perhaps you should spend more energy being concerned for the families of real life victims and less about the opinions of countries who love to look down their noses in scorn at the big, bad USA...until they need us.
And here's more from the AP story about the animal whose life you so strongly mourn:
"Green shot Patricia and Lawrence Vaughan and stole $9,000 from their convenience store in rural Dolphin, more than 50 miles south of Richmond. Patricia Vaughan, 53, was shot four times and died at the scene. Lawrence Vaughan was shot twice but survived. He was in a Richmond hospital when they buried his wife.
Police say Green confessed, telling them he and his nephew took a bus to northern Virginia and blew all but $170 of the $9,000 they stole on prostitutes, marijuana and clothes."
By the way, ANONYMOUS, you can sit back in your cushy chair and make all your "I would rather have 100 guilty set free, than have one innocent wrongly put to death" hypothetical parlor game arguments, but in this actual, real life case, the murderer confessed and never recanted his confession. The appeals were all about his supposed mental incompetency, or the usual "juror problems" that attorneys love to drudge up. Time and again, the conviction was upheld.
So, ANONYMOUS, while YOU wring your hands in your soul-wrenching concern for that "wrongfully convicted" murderer, this one particular murderous animal is where he belongs. Dead. And if there is a hell...burning in it.
Think about it again....105 posts, and not a single mention of the victim or her family.
Shameful.

Absolutely, positively BRILLIANT! Thank you!

i really don't see the whole controversy with this situation.

he KILLED someone. he should be executed. so many people pull the insane/mentally unstable card it's sick.

should we just excuse someone murdering another person, causing his/her entire innocent family all the grief they have already been trying to deal with, since there loved one is gone? now they should just sit back and watch him be taken off of death row?

it's rediculous that there are so many people in jail with lifetime/long term sentences who will get out early on "good behavior" !! it's like... "ok, well sir, we know you're in here for killing someone, but you have been doing your laundry correctly for the past few years, and showing up for dinner on time, and haven't killed anyone else...so sure, we'll take a decade off your original sentence."

the only time i can see it as "acceptable" to kill someone (call me wrong on this or not, it's what i believe) is if it is in self defense, or to save the life of another otherwise innocent person. and from my understanding, that is not what this man did, so i see no reason as to why he should be excused the death penalty.

Ida S_21_Stewartstown wrote:

i really don't see the whole controversy with this situation.
he KILLED someone. he should be executed. so many people pull the insane/mentally unstable card it's sick.
should we just excuse someone murdering another person, causing his/her entire innocent family all the grief they have already been trying to deal with, since there loved one is gone? now they should just sit back and watch him be taken off of death row?
it's rediculous that there are so many people in jail with lifetime/long term sentences who will get out early on "good behavior" !! it's like... "ok, well sir, we know you're in here for killing someone, but you have been doing your laundry correctly for the past few years, and showing up for dinner on time, and haven't killed anyone else...so sure, we'll take a decade off your original sentence."
the only time i can see it as "acceptable" to kill someone (call me wrong on this or not, it's what i believe) is if it is in self defense, or to save the life of another otherwise innocent person. and from my understanding, that is not what this man did, so i see no reason as to why he should be excused the death penalty.

Very well said.I also feel the same way.This man did the crime.Now he must do the time.The person's he killed were not excused,so why should he?

Who would Jesus execute?

Will putting this man to death bring the victim back to their family?

Will society be safer once we've killed another convicted killer in a "sanitized" fashion?

Will violent criminals think twice before committing a some drug, mental illness, or anger-induced crime?

Do we feel better about ourselves once this person has been killed?

Is there a sense of justice?

Again, what does it say about US and OUR society that we continue to kill in the name of NOT KILLING? The rest of developed world has moved on from this form of "justice" despite our persistence to not give it up. At what point do we realize executions are not serving as a preventative measure and do not bring peace to the aggrieved. They still lost their loved one even after the killer is executed.

Still brings me back to the fundamental question: Is it morally ethical to kill to establish that killing is unacceptable?

SC Midtown wrote:

Will putting this man to death bring the victim back to their family?
Will society be safer once we've killed another convicted killer in a "sanitized" fashion?
Will violent criminals think twice before committing a some drug, mental illness, or anger-induced crime?
Do we feel better about ourselves once this person has been killed?
Is there a sense of justice?
Again, what does it say about US and OUR society that we continue to kill in the name of NOT KILLING? The rest of developed world has moved on from this form of "justice" despite our persistence to not give it up. At what point do we realize executions are not serving as a preventative measure and do not bring peace to the aggrieved. They still lost their loved one even after the killer is executed.
Still brings me back to the fundamental question: Is it morally ethical to kill to establish that killing is unacceptable?

Why do you keep asking the question? Many have tried to answer it. You're not going to change any minds today and maybe never. You've made your case and others have made theirs. Excuse me if I don't answer this time.

Concerned in Twin Cities wrote:

<quoted text>
Why do you keep asking the question? Many have tried to answer it. You're not going to change any minds today and maybe never. You've made your case and others have made theirs. Excuse me if I don't answer this time.

He can't retain anything, So he asks again in different ways, Hopefully he will be able to piece everything together and then he will move on, He will never understand regardless how many questions he asks and gets answers.

No, wrong again. I ask because the answers were inadequate or poorly responded to.

Indeed, I even addressed it in my repost. The argument that by killing someone removes them from being a danger to society makes no sense as you can achieve the same end through a life sentence.

I ask these questions because people in this country often look at such matters on an emotive rather than an intellectual level. If you did, you'd see it does NOT WORK as a deterrent, nor does it make our society any safer. Two wrongs don't make a right, sorry but that's the truth.

SC Midtown wrote:

No, wrong again. I ask because the answers were inadequate or poorly responded to.
Indeed, I even addressed it in my repost. The argument that by killing someone removes them from being a danger to society makes no sense as you can achieve the same end through a life sentence.
I ask these questions because people in this country often look at such matters on an emotive rather than an intellectual level. If you did, you'd see it does NOT WORK as a deterrent, nor does it make our society any safer. Two wrongs don't make a right, sorry but that's the truth.

I will write this real slowbecause apparntly you do't read to fast or too well. My previous post explained the benefts. 0 recidivism rate, Object lesson, Save money and jail space, make some families
(non liberal) feel better. There is only one thing that these scum respect, a bigger club, larger knife or bigger gun. They are basically all cowards and will not do anything if they think they may get hurt. Object lesson, Object lesson,Object lesson!!!!!!