Central Corridor Hardening the bargain

This state will be lucky if we survive Pawlenty. He is probably the most anti-urban governor in our history, and mpls/st. paul have never been more central to the success/failure of our state than they are now. Sorry guv Maple Grove is nice but the cities are why we matter. Please pull your head out or resign.

I'm still optimistic that the funding will be approved. I think the Governor is just using the Central Corridor project as a bargaining chip in the budget negotiations. But I don't think he would want his budget maneuvering to cost the state 450 million dollars in Federal funds.

On his radio show Friday, he called Central Corridor "the nearly $1 billion light-rail project between Minneapolis and St. Paul. It's $100 million a mile, I think $20,000 a foot.'' We note the new I-35W bridge is costing $234 million to carry cars 1,200 feet over water and banks of the Mississippi. By the gov's accounting, that comes out to $195,000 a foot.

I wonder what the cost per person moved per year would be for each of these projects?

George Jones wrote:

I wonder what the cost per person moved per year would be for each of these projects?

The bridge accounts for 15 million passenger-miles annually. The Hiawatha Line should rack up about 63 million passenger-miles this year, or over 4 times the amount of the bridge.

The Hiawatha Line cost about $830 million to build (including vehicles), in today's dollars, and the bridge will cost $272 million, including the cost of victim compensation.

So, light rail handles 4.2 times the passenger-miles but cost 3.5 times as much as the new bridge. Light rail is more cost-effective.

Thanks for asking.

George Jones wrote:

On his radio show Friday, he called Central Corridor "the nearly $1 billion light-rail project between Minneapolis and St. Paul. It's $100 million a mile, I think $20,000 a foot.'' We note the new I-35W bridge is costing $234 million to carry cars 1,200 feet over water and banks of the Mississippi. By the gov's accounting, that comes out to $195,000 a foot.
I wonder what the cost per person moved per year would be for each of these projects?

When you do your calculations, don't forget to amortize the costs over the expected lifetime of each of these pieces of infrastructure. Let's say 50 years, to be conservative. Most bridges and railways last a lot longer than that, of course. That always seems to get left out of these discussions. If you focus only on the immediate costs, it seems like it's not economical. But if you consider the lifespan of these assets, it changes the perspective.

As a FORMER Republican, I find it amazing that Pawlenty doesn't make the connection between failed idiot policies in Iraq and the impact on gas prices, which have very adversely affected Northwest Airlines and transportation.

We've now "invested" BILLIONS in Iraq, and our infrastructure here is (HAS) crumbled!!!

Spiraling crude prices have cost Minnesota one of our best-known corporate citizens - NWA's headquarters. Thanks, Tim!!

Barney wrote:

<quoted text>
The bridge accounts for 15 million passenger-miles annually. The Hiawatha Line should rack up about 63 million passenger-miles this year, or over 4 times the amount of the bridge.
The Hiawatha Line cost about $830 million to build (including vehicles), in today's dollars, and the bridge will cost $272 million, including the cost of victim compensation.
So, light rail handles 4.2 times the passenger-miles but cost 3.5 times as much as the new bridge. Light rail is more cost-effective.
Thanks for asking.

Your analysis is extremely flawed, no cost of cars or lawsuits included in the LRT boondoggle costs. How long do the cars last? They cost what half a mill apiece? How many will be damaged or destroyed by crashing into cars? How many lawsuits against the LRT will there be for the hundreds killed and injured by this travesty over its lifetime? What will the tab for the lawsuits be? Have you figured all of this into the costs? So, I conclude that it is not be more cost effective than the bridge.

Franklin Adams wrote:

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Your analysis is extremely flawed, no cost of cars or lawsuits included in the LRT boondoggle costs. How long do the cars last? They cost what half a mill apiece? How many will be damaged or destroyed by crashing into cars? How many lawsuits against the LRT will there be for the hundreds killed and injured by this travesty over its lifetime? What will the tab for the lawsuits be? Have you figured all of this into the costs? So, I conclude that it is not be more cost effective than the bridge.

Ah, the old "move the goalposts" response to an answer someone doesn't like. A classic.

You're right - no crashes happen on roads, particularly the I-35W bridge. Brilliant analysis.

Barney wrote:

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Ah, the old "move the goalposts" response to an answer someone doesn't like. A classic.
You're right - no crashes happen on roads, particularly the I-35W bridge. Brilliant analysis.

Like you just did you mean?

Barney wrote:

<quoted text>
Ah, the old "move the goalposts" response to an answer someone doesn't like. A classic.
You're right - no crashes happen on roads, particularly the I-35W bridge. Brilliant analysis.

Is the state sued for crashes on the roads?

I want Minnesota to be a thriving, twenty first century state that grows its economy without leaving people behind and without polluting the
world God gave us to live in. I think a lot of Minnesotans share this vision. Governor Pawlenty apparently wants something else. I don't
know how else to explain his line-item veto of the Central Corridor, the linchpin project of any transportation plan to create the Minnesota I
just described. Governor Pawlenty, restore funding for Central Corridor!

Franklin Adams wrote:

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Is the state sued for crashes on the roads?

Let's see - did the state have to pay out for the bridge collapse. I'm thinking... hold on...

How much have the taxpayers directly paid out as the result of accidents along the light rail? You have the figure, right?

Barney wrote:

<quoted text>
Let's see - did the state have to pay out for the bridge collapse. I'm thinking... hold on...
How much have the taxpayers directly paid out as the result of accidents along the light rail? You have the figure, right?

I do not think that the lawsuits over the LRT murders have been decided yet. How many have to die at the hands of the choo choo before you people see the light? Hundreds? Thousands? I will bet you shoot feral cats in your spare time you heartless republican.

Franklin Adams wrote:

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I do not think that the lawsuits over the LRT murders have been decided yet. How many have to die at the hands of the choo choo before you people see the light? Hundreds? Thousands? I will bet you shoot feral cats in your spare time you heartless republican.

I didn't realize there have been multiple LRT "murders".

You have a nice day, Mr. Troll.

Barney wrote:

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I didn't realize there have been multiple LRT "murders".
You have a nice day, Mr. Troll.

Now now, name calling is not nice. Reading your informative posts has been great fun.

I am so sick of the roads vs trains comparisons and this article continues to propogate the logic. Additionally, this article is most definitely written/edited by a DFL partisian which is sickening.

Roads/Bridges and LRT are not comparable in either cost or in their usage. You cannot subsititue tracks for roads or vice versa so just stop with the comparisions. It simply demonstrates the level of petty foolishness that one will stoop to in the obsessive support of a project.

Roads transport not only people, but goods and support inter and intra state commerce. LRT does not and never will do that. It will move people. Period. Roads are general use, LRT is single use. We will always have to support the maintenance and even expansion of roads no matter how many LRT lines we have. We will never be able to "Stop building roads". They are here to stay. Period. That must be considered as it is significant to understand that LRT will always be an INCREMENTAL cost to roads.

LRT should be built, but it must be done responsibly or it will do far more harm than good. You can have all of the infrastructure and amenities that money can buy, but if the cost of those items drives the tax burden to a critical point, we will loose jobs and will not be able to sustain our community. By many economists account, we already reached that pinnacle and we are already loosing jobs in droves (NWA, 3M, Ford to name just a few and there are a considerably larger list that is continuing to grow). Further, short changing existing infrastructure that is critical to supporting our economy (roads/bridges) also serves to undermine the local economy.

In short, it should be built slowly and responsibly. Yes, it is an important part of the future of transit in this state. It is not so criticial that we have it IMMEDIATELY that we should be irresponsibly increasing the local tax burden or neglecting existing infrastructure.

It's not that hard folks, just stop, take a step back and use your common sense.

Daily Hiawatha LRT rider wrote:

As a FORMER Republican, I find it amazing that Pawlenty doesn't make the connection between failed idiot policies in Iraq and the impact on gas prices, which have very adversely affected Northwest Airlines and transportation.
We've now "invested" BILLIONS in Iraq, and our infrastructure here is (HAS) crumbled!!!
Spiraling crude prices have cost Minnesota one of our best-known corporate citizens - NWA's headquarters. Thanks, Tim!!

I understand why you are a former republican, you have no sense of reality.

Crude prices are controlled by the speculators on the market, no link to Iraq or its funding.

The crumble happened because someone designed it wrong. Way before Pawlenty took office.

Wake up and smell reality.

Dump the new LRT, all it will do is cause more congestion, and raise taxes for the people who live in the metro area, 90 percent of who will probably never step foot on it

Downtown resident wrote:

... and mpls/st. paul have never been more central to the success/failure of our state than they are now. Sorry guv Maple Grove is nice but the cities are why we matter. Please pull your head out or resign.

Obviously, you have no idea how unimportant the cities of Minneapolis and Saint Paul are to the rest of the metro and state. They do not even constitute 25% of the metro population.

Daily Hiawatha LRT rider wrote:

As a FORMER Republican....

I don't believe it. You are too stupid to have ever been a Republican.

Barney wrote:

<quoted text>
How much have the taxpayers directly paid out as the result of accidents along the light rail? You have the figure, right?

I suppose the souls who paid with their lives were taxpayers.