Ethanol under fire

It took this long for people to realize that ethanol production is absolute lunacy. I think an investigation should be conducted to find out why such an industry was allowed to be created and who profitted.

This product was a failure from the start. It does nothing to replace oil energy, inflates our food prices and needs tax subsidies just to stay afloat. If you are looking for one of many reasons our economy is faultering you only have to look at ethanol.

This debacle has gone on long enough yet there are people who actually defend this industry. Call your representatives at all levels and demand that ethanol be discontinued immediately.

JJohn wrote:

It took this long for people to realize that ethanol production is absolute lunacy. I think an investigation should be conducted to find out why such an industry was allowed to be created and who profitted.
This product was a failure from the start. It does nothing to replace oil energy, inflates our food prices and needs tax subsidies just to stay afloat. If you are looking for one of many reasons our economy is faultering you only have to look at ethanol.
This debacle has gone on long enough yet there are people who actually defend this industry. Call your representatives at all levels and demand that ethanol be discontinued immediately.

You know, the food industry didn't complain when corn was $1.50 a bushel and farmers were losing their behinds. 20 ounces of corn flakes cost as much as 2 bushels of corn, 1 1/4 pounds vs. 120 pounds. Who was making the money. Food industy, quit your cryin' and eat the cost. So your raw material input has quadrupled. So have gas prices. Ethanol isn't the villain here, it is a country that didn't develop an energy policy after the Arab oil embargo in 1973.

Turning a food staple into fuel was never a bright idea.

Pragmatist wrote:

<quoted text>You know, the food industry didn't complain when corn was $1.50 a bushel and farmers were losing their behinds. 20 ounces of corn flakes cost as much as 2 bushels of corn, 1 1/4 pounds vs. 120 pounds. Who was making the money. Food industy, quit your cryin' and eat the cost. So your raw material input has quadrupled. So have gas prices. Ethanol isn't the villain here, it is a country that didn't develop an energy policy after the Arab oil embargo in 1973.

It's not the food industry who eats the cost idiot. It's us. An 80% increase in the cost of corn in a year is unadulterated greed plain and simple. Even the greediest of farmers are beginning to realize that. As for ethanol, we all know now it's a horribly inefficient energy source and a complete waste of resources. It should be banned. Stop smoking the liberals bong.

Converting food into fuel is insanity commensurate with a refusal to drill in our own lands for up to 80 billion barrels of oil or more.

Oil shale conversion is profitable at these prices as is coal gasification.

Once again, the green owners of Congress hold the consumer hostage to high oil prices as we send our dollars to hostile nations.

The only bigger myth than the 80 billion barrels is the so-called oil shale, which isn't oil. That algae never reached the "oil window". and attempts to cook it haven't worked for 35 years.

Why hasn't this paper investigated the issues surrounding the continued political support for this industry? "Follow the money", and I predict you will find the truth, and the truth will be a story of colusion and influence peddling.

The corn that is used for ethanol production isn't used as a food staple because it isn't consumed. Ethanol is not our saviour but a on-going battle of left/right.

Karen is correct, in that the corn used for ethanol is not consumed. However, I think she may be missing the big picture: just because you and I don't eat it doesn't mean it's not consumed! The alternative to using it for ethanol is to feed it to livestock to keep the cost of beef, pork and chicken at an affordable level. As cattle growers compete with ethanol producers for the cost of feed, the cost of raising the herd increases. They are left with no alternative but to pass that cost along to us. Why do you think the cost of a steak has tripled in the last couple of years? Granted, the higher cost of fuel has a component in that increase, but feed costs are the major component.

there is NO shortage of FOOD
there is No shortage of LIVESTOCK FEED
ethanol does NOT affect FOOD prices as you think, the price of OIL affects the FOOD price more.

and furthermore the "starving" countries could give a rip if we where "starving". we are starving right now for oil and noone is stepping up the plate for us. I say we keep all our corn and cook it ALL for fuel!

There is an excellent documentary called "King Corn". It shows how and where our food sources come from. People like Karen who seem to think we don't consume corn really need to see this film.

buddy wrote:

<quoted text>
It's not the food industry who eats the cost idiot. It's us. An 80% increase in the cost of corn in a year is unadulterated greed plain and simple. Even the greediest of farmers are beginning to realize that. As for ethanol, we all know now it's a horribly inefficient energy source and a complete waste of resources. It should be banned. Stop smoking the liberals bong.

Fertilizer, fuel, seed, have all increased in price, some by 300%. There isn't going to be $3 corn again. Its gone, with $2 gasoline. So you have called the farmers greedy, any other groups that don't control their own prices you want to pick on?

smokey wrote:

There is an excellent documentary called "King Corn". It shows how and where our food sources come from. People like Karen who seem to think we don't consume corn really need to see this film.

is that the one where it shows like mcdonalds and/or burger king and it shows how the fries/pop/burgers/buns/nuggets are all tied to the corn..ie corn syrup, feed for chickens..etc..

buddy wrote:

<quoted text>
It's not the food industry who eats the cost idiot. It's us. An 80% increase in the cost of corn in a year is unadulterated greed plain and simple. Even the greediest of farmers are beginning to realize that. As for ethanol, we all know now it's a horribly inefficient energy source and a complete waste of resources. It should be banned. Stop smoking the liberals bong.

How can you call farmers 'greedy'... what should they do? Should they stop selling corn?

Ethanol production was supposed to be done only by farmer owned cooperatives but somewhere along the line we allowed Seagrams distilleries to become the largest owner by volume of plants owned and operated. Left alone the farmers would never have realized these prices for their commodity. End all subsidies of this totally worthless product since it takes many million of gallons of water to make also!

vikings66 wrote:

<quoted text>
is that the one where it shows like mcdonalds and/or burger king and it shows how the fries/pop/burgers/buns/nuggets are all tied to the corn..ie corn syrup, feed for chickens..etc..

especially interesting is the end when they sell their acre's worth of corn and realize that even with the subsidy, they lost money ... and they want to do it again!

smokey wrote:

There is an excellent documentary called "King Corn". It shows how and where our food sources come from. People like Karen who seem to think we don't consume corn really need to see this film.

It is a good show, everyone should watch it. It was made several years ago. especially interesting is the end when they sell the corn they grew on their acre and realize that they lost money doing it. But they still want to do it again the next year! They do realize that they can't continue to lose money, so they plant grass on their acre and play on it. Good show!

real information wrote:

<quoted text>
How can you call farmers 'greedy'... what should they do? Should they stop selling corn?

They should stop taking my tax money--they get tons of taxpayer subsidies, and ethanol is another subsidy.

Two facts have always been true about ethanol: 1) When you combine the sale price and the subsidies, it has always costed more than gasoline. 2) It takes more energy in the form of fossil fuels to produce ethanol than the ethanol yields. It increases our fossil fuel dependence.

Steve wrote:

Karen is correct, in that the corn used for ethanol is not consumed. However, I think she may be missing the big picture: just because you and I don't eat it doesn't mean it's not consumed! The alternative to using it for ethanol is to feed it to livestock to keep the cost of beef, pork and chicken at an affordable level. As cattle growers compete with ethanol producers for the cost of feed, the cost of raising the herd increases. They are left with no alternative but to pass that cost along to us. Why do you think the cost of a steak has tripled in the last couple of years? Granted, the higher cost of fuel has a component in that increase, but feed costs are the major component.

... and of course a byproduct of ethanol production is dried distillers grain which is excellent cattle feed ... and of course a beef producer does not put a price on meat, your grocery store does. The beef producer can only take the price that the processer is willing to pay that day.

P T Bull wrote:

<quoted text>
They should stop taking my tax money--they get tons of taxpayer subsidies, and ethanol is another subsidy.
Two facts have always been true about ethanol: 1) When you combine the sale price and the subsidies, it has always costed more than gasoline. 2) It takes more energy in the form of fossil fuels to produce ethanol than the ethanol yields. It increases our fossil fuel dependence.

the farmer does not get that subsidy, it goes to the processer that blends the ethanol (an oil company).
1) The subsidy is bull, and should be discontinued.
2) False, there is over 30% gain in energy (and that includes ALL energy inputs from making the machinery, growing the corn, and destilling the ethanol).