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Minnesota school superintendents say funding system broken

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“Have fun and smile often.”

Joined: Feb 7, 2008
Comments: 1650
ISP Location: Minneapolis, MN
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#41
Mar 5, 2008
 
GJB wrote:
I just want to see one thing from schools...
Regular public audits. Let us see where the money is going. Audit once every 4 years at a minimum, more often if schools are asking for an increase of funding that is more than the rate of inflation.
I'm for it! I'm all about accountability. You say you need the money, you show the need with facts, not emotions.

“Have fun and smile often.”

Joined: Feb 7, 2008
Comments: 1650
ISP Location: Minneapolis, MN
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#42
Mar 5, 2008
 
Marko, thanks for sharing with us your story. I'm so happy to hear of your son's current pursuits! That's wonderful!
Teach
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#43
Mar 5, 2008
 
Doesn't change the fact that this article and the study findings are not saying that schools need more money. People need to better understand how schools are actually funded.
Peter
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#44
Mar 5, 2008
 
I know what'll fix it. Bring in another 100,000 indigent illegal aliens and refugees with no hope of paying the amount of taxes needed to support the schools. No, that'll make it worse? I agree. We need a "think before we import" policy on immigration.
GRP
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#45
Mar 5, 2008
 
canoedog wrote:
I am surprised that many writers are so eager to privatize education. Private school tuition for schools in the metro that offer a K-12 education and a full academic program averages roughly $20,000 a year (add to that the money that comes from the annual campaign and endowment). Full service K-12 parochial schools average a bit over $10,000 (add to that annual campaign, church subsidies and teacher pay that often includes free tuition for their children in exchange for a lower pay scale. These schools are exempt from many state and federal mandates, and rarely accept students with special needs or significant academic difficulty.
In short, private education is significantly more expensive than public education (there are a few exceptions, typically driven by the munber of students receiving extra support services to compensate for poverty or concentrations of special needs children) Are we willing to fund the public system at the same level with extra money for each special needs child so we can compare apples to apples? Are we willing to write a check for the full tuition amount so students can choose these more expensive private schools?
The problem of school finance is a combination of unfunded mandates, some inefficiencies, cultural factors that do not encourage learning and the reality that we may not be providing enough funding for core services (money that cannot be used for programs that are legally required but not funded). It's easy to point a quick finger, but the problem is more complicated.
I challenge your tuition costs - perhaps you're talking about Breck, or similar. Both my kids went private / parochial and it was far less than you've noted. Here are some MN Dept of Ed stats from the Taxpayers League of MN. The average annual per pupil cost in MN exceeds $10K,in the Mpls district it's over $13K. However, those are the numbers that Dept. of Education likes to report because they represent what is spent in the classroom. The true cost of education is the total expeditures (total K-12 budget) divided by the number of students in the state. That number is close to $20K per pupil. There's far more "overhead" in the process than that posting that said Administration accounts for 5% of the districts budget. The key is privitization introduces competition. That and other market forces will drive down the price further. Government has a monopoloy and they don't give a damn about improving the process - their solution is always more $......
Teach
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#46
Mar 5, 2008
 
Peter wrote:
I know what'll fix it. Bring in another 100,000 indigent illegal aliens and refugees with no hope of paying the amount of taxes needed to support the schools. No, that'll make it worse? I agree. We need a "think before we import" policy on immigration.
Another post that has nothing to do with the actual article. Thanks for nothing.
Peter
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#47
Mar 5, 2008
 
Teach wrote:
<quoted text>
Another post that has nothing to do with the actual article. Thanks for nothing.
It has everything to do with it. The more people that the schools serve that can't pay for the schools, the worse the school funding problem gets. It isn't everything, but it's a steady dilutive force eroding society's ability to fund education.
Me Man
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#48
Mar 5, 2008
 
bill wrote:
Hey Get A Clue
I can tell you a liberal,
How? Because he can write a fully formed sentence?
Diane1
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#49
Mar 5, 2008
 
Peter wrote:
<quoted text>
It has everything to do with it. The more people that the schools serve that can't pay for the schools, the worse the school funding problem gets. It isn't everything, but it's a steady dilutive force eroding society's ability to fund education.
Peter, we get it, you don't like immigration. Let's stay on topic. Why don't you answer the earlier question about whether your responses would be the same if we were talking about your child, vs "children" and "education" in the abstract. How much would you want funding & teaching staff cut at YOUR child's school? What if he/she had special needs - how low would be low enough then?
Teach
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#50
Mar 5, 2008
 
That is correct but the problem the article is discussing is the system that funds the schools. Schools in MN are funded largely through property taxes. This leaves large discrepency's in school funding and hurts middle to lower class districts and districts that lack businesses.
Bob
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#51
Mar 5, 2008
 
My districts last referendum asked for $800,000 to replace all computers every 2 years. The referendum FAILED!!!

I wonder why?

Then my Senator used that failure as an example of why education needs a different revenue stream.

PLEASE, LET THERE BE BRAINS INSTILLED IN THESE ELECTED OFFICIALS!!! SOME HOW BRAINS PLEASE!!!!

EDUCATION IS MUCH LIKE LRT A CASH SINKHOLE!
Why Me
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#52
Mar 5, 2008
 
Mankato Mike wrote:
Minnesota needs to stop throwing money at the education mess and come up with a new plan. We have in real terms increased spending on K-12 by 28%(adjusted for inflation) the past 10 years while our student enrolment numbers have declined. MN spends 2.6 billion on special education and ESL each year. These children are not our future inventors and leaders who are being short changed by Minnesota schools. Parents of Gifted and Talented youths better be wealthy because most districts have the parents pay hundreds of dollars out of their own pockets to have their children tested and then these parents pay thousands more out of their pockets to place these students in accelerated classes at the UofM and elsewhere, yet we spend billions on children who are mentally challenged and inspire to one day clean up after us at McDonalds.
Minnesota needs to break free of Federal mandates that force us to spend 2.6 billion on special education and ESL (Supposedly reimbursed by the Federal Government but has never been so) and use this money to invest in the gifted and talented and “average” student body. We need to stop wasting 19% of our yearly State Education budget on future Wal-Mart greeters and spend it on our future engineers, scientists, and leaders!
Mike you kill me. I learn to dislike your position post after post and then you hit one over the fence.

I spent 12 years working with the Developmental Disabilities community so I speak from a bit of experience.

MN has thrown money down the drain in regard to serving this population. Be it in residential services, or education. The net gain in education, and services could be easily achieved at about half the cost.

I saw so much mandated waste it was sad.

For example, most people receiving services can have a limited amount of funds before they have their services impacted. Some people receiving services also receive social security, payments from insurance settlements and other sources of income.

I know and have witnessed countless examples of caregivers "spending down" the accounts to no real benefit of the person receiving the services.

This is just one example. There are countless others.
Diane1
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#53
Mar 5, 2008
 
Teach wrote:
That is correct but the problem the article is discussing is the system that funds the schools. Schools in MN are funded largely through property taxes. This leaves large discrepency's in school funding and hurts middle to lower class districts and districts that lack businesses.
You must be new here. Most of the knee-jerk cranks here don't actually bother to read the articles. They just use this as a forum to spout confrontational views, usually based on no facts at all. Name-calling is generally what you'll get in place of debate, or something unrelated about immigration or welfare - as you've seen. Trying to get them to respond to an actual point or fact is usually futile.
Teach
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#54
Mar 5, 2008
 
MAybe your school wouldn't need a referendum if the schools shared tax revenue throughout the state so that every school had the same amount of money per student.
jw in the grove
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#55
Mar 5, 2008
 
dist 883 has a referedum every 2 years or so , we need astro turf at 1.6 million. supers making close to 200 grand a year. indoor tracks, bridges inside schools, all while raising taxes, cutting busing,increasing class size, more fundraising by the students, they have a spending problem, nothing is broke but their priorities
Diane1
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#56
Mar 5, 2008
 
jw in the grove wrote:
dist 883 has a referedum every 2 years or so , we need astro turf at 1.6 million. supers making close to 200 grand a year. indoor tracks, bridges inside schools, all while raising taxes, cutting busing,increasing class size, more fundraising by the students, they have a spending problem, nothing is broke but their priorities
Have you ever even been inside a school in Mpls or St. Paul in your life? I guarantee you, if they're asking for money it's not for indoor tracks & cool perks. It's for teachers, books, infrastructure repair, and basics.

Again, if it was your child in one of the Mpls or St. Paul schools, how much of a cut would be enough for you? It's always easy to suggest that "others" are spending too much - not so easy to cut things to the bone when it's your kid's classroom.
Teach
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#57
Mar 5, 2008
 
jw in the grove wrote:
dist 883 has a referedum every 2 years or so , we need astro turf at 1.6 million. supers making close to 200 grand a year. indoor tracks, bridges inside schools, all while raising taxes, cutting busing,increasing class size, more fundraising by the students, they have a spending problem, nothing is broke but their priorities
blah blah blah. Not relevant to the article you don't understand the acutal topic at hand.
Teach
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#58
Mar 5, 2008
 
Diane1 wrote:
<quoted text>
You must be new here. Most of the knee-jerk cranks here don't actually bother to read the articles. They just use this as a forum to spout confrontational views, usually based on no facts at all. Name-calling is generally what you'll get in place of debate, or something unrelated about immigration or welfare - as you've seen. Trying to get them to respond to an actual point or fact is usually futile.
That is fairly apparent but I learned in college that in order to teach children you must repeat something at leat 8 times. I'm not sure what the counts at but I'll continue to post the same thing, maybe someone will acutally get it.

Joined: Feb 11, 2008
Comments: 85
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#59
Mar 5, 2008
 
jw in the grove wrote:
dist 883 has a referedum every 2 years or so , we need astro turf at 1.6 million. supers making close to 200 grand a year. indoor tracks, bridges inside schools, all while raising taxes, cutting busing,increasing class size, more fundraising by the students, they have a spending problem, nothing is broke but their priorities
Don't forget the new baseball bleachers in woodbury that the district is going to end up picking up.
Patriot
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#60
Mar 5, 2008
 
Bob wrote:
My districts last referendum asked for $800,000 to replace all computers every 2 years. The referendum FAILED!!!
I wonder why?
Then my Senator used that failure as an example of why education needs a different revenue stream.
PLEASE, LET THERE BE BRAINS INSTILLED IN THESE ELECTED OFFICIALS!!! SOME HOW BRAINS PLEASE!!!!
EDUCATION IS MUCH LIKE LRT A CASH SINKHOLE!
Do you want American students to be able to compete in the global economy? If so, they need a strong background in technology. In this day and age, a two-year old computer is a dinosaur. Schools have moved beyond the readin', writin', and 'rithmetic models of the old days. Education costs money, and we, as a society, get what we pay for.

No one likes paying taxes, but costs for everything are rising -- from fuel for buses to textbooks to building maintenance costs to insurance for employees. Schools have been forced to make major budget cuts for years and depend on local taxpayers to make up for state and federal funding shortfalls.

Volunteer in any classroom in Minnesota and you will see that public schools are working harder than ever to provide quality education to ALL students.
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