The blessings of liberalism

Steve Mager, I respectfully submit that the Founders of this country were not dreamy idealists who "had faith in human goodness and hope for something better". The system of government they installed (the "Great Experiment") has built into it an ingenious and durable system of checks and balances, precisely because they understood human greed and the hunger for power. They were not utopians. I think they often saw the world more clearly than we do.

Where would we be without the blessings of liberalism? We'd be living in a free society.

Steve-you have classical liberalism confused with today's liberalism, which is the antithesis of freedom.

Free to marry who we want? Free to do what we want behind closed doors? Free to express ourselves if we disagree with others?

It always depends on what each individual or group means by "free."

......"Furthermore, in spite of conservatism's efforts to claim them, our own Founders may be the most influential liberals of all time. Thankfully, unlike Dreher and his fellow conservatives, they had faith in human goodness and hope for something better.".......

Steve...I am going to assume that you are youthful and somewhat ignorant about the issue of Liberalism as a Modern Political concept.

To equate the restrictive use of the Law by the Politically correct Liberals(Leftists) of today, with the Libertarian (Right Leaning) Founders, can only be explained as ignorant.

Dont misunderstand my words here. Words mean something. "Ignorant" simply means you do not know. "Stupid" is you do know, but choose to not let the truth get in the way of what you need to believe, you perpetuate ignorance.

The Leftists today...(Who you confuse with the Founding Libertarians)...have a lot more in common with the Authoritarian British of the day than with the freedom seeking Colonists.

The Founders did recognize the basic human frailties. Greed being amongst them. They implemented Law, to control the lesser human traits. To be free, American people agree to live under Law as part of a social contract.

The problem today is that the Law has been manipulated by the Leftists to shape Social Policy. Social policy can only be shaped through the restriction of rights for some, to enhance rights for others.

The left has added to the list, Basic Human Rights that the the Founders would not recognize.

It isnt enough for the Left to "choose" for themselves as they wish. Now the Law must be manipulated to force the rest of our society to embrace their choices too.

This is Authoritarian....Not Liberal.

Mike wrote:

Where would we be without the blessings of liberalism? We'd be living in a free society.

Now that bush is on his way out the door, its amazing how many people try to claim he was a liberal all along. Just to let you know, bush is in the republican party. Bush is a conservative along the lines of Ronald Reagan.

Mellers wrote:

Free to marry who we want? Free to do what we want behind closed doors? Free to express ourselves if we disagree with others?
It always depends on what each individual or group means by "free."

Thanks Mellers....You reminded me of an important point about you Leftists.

The Left today equates freedom to only mean saxual freedom. The word "FREEDOM" has been hijacked by those that wish to impose their own form of immorality on the culture as a whole. Not content to simply choose immorality for themselves, they need society to embrace their particular form of deviancy.

These fools

Let's just be grateful we have the right to be either liberal or conservative.

Bush is a republican, but not along the lines of Reagan.

Don Joe wrote:

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Now that bush is on his way out the door, its amazing how many people try to claim he was a liberal all along. Just to let you know, bush is in the republican party. Bush is a conservative along the lines of Ronald Reagan.

Bob in the Grove wrote:

Bush is a republican, but not along the lines of Reagan.
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Can you elaborate on any perceived differences? They both ruined the economy. They both stood for illegal behavior. Bush is an idiot and Reagan had Alzheimer's. More crimes were committed in the course of official duties than any other two presidents. Both made us embarrassed to be Americans. Both attacked the middle class and gave our tax dollars to the wealthy.

If the shoe fits wrote:

Let's just be grateful we have the right to be either liberal or conservative.

Do we still have that right? With the pat act, the government can incarcerate anyone anytime, no reason given. If you speak out against the government, they might decide to put you away. Yes, you have some freedom, till they put you away. But if you want to act in a way as to not be tortured, you might want to reconsider speaking against bush.

Normally i read and have never posted...but being of the left leaning side of the aisle i was wondering what in the human/social compact would be foriegn to the founding fathers life ,liberty, the pusuit of happiness, be free from search and seizure? I believe we were hijacked in 1980 by Reagan when the war on the middle class was started.Corporations have paid less and the citizen have paid more and more of the taxes.Why as a private citizen am i expected to shoulder the cost of doing business.We fought the war against fascismin the 1940's over there so we would not have to fight them here.

Mellers wrote:

Free to marry who we want? Free to do what we want behind closed doors? Free to express ourselves if we disagree with others?
It always depends on what each individual or group means by "free."

Free to live within self-imposed rules of society.

Consistent wrote:

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Thanks Mellers....You reminded me of an important point about you Leftists.
The Left today equates freedom to only mean saxual freedom. The word "FREEDOM" has been hijacked by those that wish to impose their own form of immorality on the culture as a whole. Not content to simply choose immorality for themselves, they need society to embrace their particular form of deviancy.
These fools

Well said!

lou fiduch wrote:

Normally i read and have never posted...but being of the left leaning side of the aisle i was wondering what in the human/social compact would be foriegn to the founding fathers life ,liberty, the pusuit of happiness, be free from search and seizure? I believe we were hijacked in 1980 by Reagan when the war on the middle class was started.Corporations have paid less and the citizen have paid more and more of the taxes.Why as a private citizen am i expected to shoulder the cost of doing business.We fought the war against fascismin the 1940's over there so we would not have to fight them here.

Corporations don't pay taxes, only people pay taxes. Corporations are merely the vehicle through which taxes are paid.

Mellers wrote:

Free to marry who we want? Free to do what we want behind closed doors? Free to express ourselves if we disagree with others?
It always depends on what each individual or group means by "free."

Free to retain my earnings and give to the charities of my choice.

lou fiduch wrote:

Normally i read and have never posted...but being of the left leaning side of the aisle i was wondering what in the human/social compact would be foriegn to the founding fathers life ,liberty, the pusuit of happiness, be free from search and seizure? I believe we were hijacked in 1980 by Reagan when the war on the middle class was started.Corporations have paid less and the citizen have paid more and more of the taxes.Why as a private citizen am i expected to shoulder the cost of doing business.We fought the war against fascismin the 1940's over there so we would not have to fight them here.

Corporations and small businesses should only be allowed to have a 1% profit. Their tax rate should be 99%. These tax dollars should be split up evenly amongst the populace. No one would have to work. The government could take care of us. We would have all the LRT we need and it would be free to ride. The polar bears would have a nice new home. We could feed the feral cats and catch them and sterilize them and let them go again and it would all be free. No more hunting or eating meat. The government would be run by PETA. Global warming would be outlawed and all would be well. Blah Blah Blah.

Gndydncr wrote:

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Free to retain my earnings and give to the charities of my choice.

I think you just proved Mellers point.

Consistent wrote:

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Thanks Mellers....You reminded me of an important point about you Leftists.
The Left today equates freedom to only mean saxual freedom. The word "FREEDOM" has been hijacked by those that wish to impose their own form of immorality on the culture as a whole. Not content to simply choose immorality for themselves, they need society to embrace their particular form of deviancy.
These fools

And Repubs equate freedom only with economic freedom. "Don't touch my money! But let me tell you how to do everything else about your life."

And screw you with your judgment about other people's personal choices.

No one is asking for anyone to "embrace" their personal choices - just to allow them the right to make them. Sometimes that takes activism - and you only see that as "deviancy" being shoved in your face. You don't see the repression and denial of civil rights that goes on in other people's lives UNTIL it's shoved in your face by activists.

Gndydncr wrote:

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Well said!

Heh. Hardly.