Elementary school day could get longer in Leominster - Sentinel...

no I didn't, I said it is worse than worthless, it actually damages our children. BUt don't worry local teacher, I can see by your intelligent comments that your students are inspired by you and love you very much. You must be one of the greatest teachers ever. keep up the great work!

Mark wrote:

no I didn't, I said it is worse than worthless, it actually damages our children. BUt don't worry local teacher, I can see by your intelligent comments that your students are inspired by you and love you very much. You must be one of the greatest teachers ever. keep up the great work!

Just curious Mark, what grade do you teach? How do your students feel about your teaching methods? Do you give them homework? I've read your posts and you don't get into specifics. Just broad statements: "education system is worthless", "homework is useless". I would be interested to hear your ideas on how we can improve the education system. Maybe by sharing ideas on how to make it better we can all learn something?

Just to get the discussion started I'll share some of my ideas.

1. A life skills class should be a requirement in high school. Minimum of 1 year. Teach kids how to balance a home budget (rent, utilities, gas, food, entertainment etc...). Teach kids about credit cards. Intrest rates, minimum payments, credit scores, etc... Teach kids some basic skills like changing a flat tire on a car, how to write a resume, things like that. Things that can help them survive in the real world.

2. Require all parents to come into the school 3-4 times per year to get an update on their childs education. Make it a requirement. Parents don't come in, no reportcard. No report card no chance to graduate to the next grade.

3. Students that are disruptive and don't want to learn. Kick them out of class. Why should they spoil it for the kids that want to learn. Take the repeat offenders and give them a job in the community instead of sticking them in a classroom. Have them picking up trash around town. Cleaning graffiti. After a few days I think their attitude may change.

I would love to hear your ideas.

I had a Personal Finance course in high school. It covered budgets, checking/savings and credit scores. Resume writing was part of an english course.
Parents were required to meet with a teacher each semester and dispuptive kids were taken out of the classroom. They weren't required to clean however.
My father taught me how to change a tire...
I graduated in 1974.

Amazed wrote:

<quoted text>
Just curious Mark, what grade do you teach? How do your students feel about your teaching methods? Do you give them homework? I've read your posts and you don't get into specifics. Just broad statements: "education system is worthless", "homework is useless". I would be interested to hear your ideas on how we can improve the education system. Maybe by sharing ideas on how to make it better we can all learn something?

Amazed, I shared a lesson I did a few posts ago and it really strikes at the heart of all the lessons I do. Let me state before I share that I don’t consider how my students feel about me or my methods if I know I am bringing curriculum of value and if I am providing access to that material that results in disciplined and authentic engagement from my students. Without boasting, I will tell you that unequivocally, my students love the curriculum I choose and my methods and they reciprocate the greatest love between a teacher and a students we call “agape” in Greek or “caritas” in the Latin. Further, what I hear from nearly all my students parents is “my child loves coming to school for the first time.” If a parent tells me that, I hope the implications are clear.
First of all, bringing in curriculum of high value is the most difficult thing to do for the modern teacher. As I mentioned, standards based learning and testing is stupid and superstitious on a scale far more prolific than the Salem witch trials. Trying to teach a long list of standards and inert facts has destroyed our conceptions of mastery, the old mile wide and inch deep method is lowest common denominator thinking and fits perfectly with a “moron proof” system that we have evolved into. Multiculturalism and egalitarianism have contributed to the destruction of our values and are the latest tools to cut us of from our intellectual heritage. Sorry, let me get to it, text books are a nightmare, an intellectual quagmire from which we can not extricate ourselves. Self styled teachers trying to make a name for themselves create moron proof programs, and our narcissistic system abides by the politics of recognition to do the rest. All the problems we have in school, discipline, add, adhd, dyslexia, apathy, laziness, etc… are solved by a teacher who is the master of his area bringing in sources of high value and providing access. An intrinsically motivated, disciplined, inquisitive and engaged student is never a problem. These characteristics describe how the overwhelmingly vast majority of students respond to valuable sources presented by an engaging and competent teacher (not highly qualified on paper). But like I said, the moronic response of most teachers, and now even good students is “how do you know what valuable sources are, that is just your opinion.” Well, we do know.
I like your ideas, but they treat symptoms of the problem and don’t address the root issues, so they are doomed to fail, as have almost all recent remedies. Montaigne said in one of his essays that if there is a student in class that does not wish to learn the master should take him out into the woods and beat him to death. I could only agree if the school were offering something of value, as it is, I think it is a very appropriate response for students to fake learning, be disruptive, cause problems, because it is an insult to the intellect to force children to memorize meaningless facts and standards and regurgitate them on a test only to forget them once the test is over. It has lead to amazing rates of necessary remediation at the college level, record increase in prison population, a consistent dropout rate of 30% over the last 30 years and 50% amongst minorities, and a degradation of societal mores never seen before.
I would love to share ideas if you would ask a specific question. Or did you just want to hear more "absurd rants"?

MARK: "Without boasting, I will tell you that unequivocally, my students love the curriculum I choose and my methods and they reciprocate the greatest love between a teacher and a students"

I stopped reading when I read the above. You are so full of BS! NO person that HATES educators, students, and the entire education system as much as you have demonstrated here could possible be in that position. It is just BS and not worthy of reading!

SO! After having read all your comments after all the time you people spent trying to crush me about my name and after reading that a TEACHER said that she does what she can with what she has! one thing is for sure...WE NEED TO IMPROVE THE QUALITY OF OUR TEACHERS! FACE IT.

Paul from Leominster wrote:

MARK: "Without boasting, I will tell you that unequivocally, my students love the curriculum I choose and my methods and they reciprocate the greatest love between a teacher and a students"
I stopped reading when I read the above. You are so full of BS! NO person that HATES educators, students, and the entire education system as much as you have demonstrated here could possible be in that position. It is just BS and not worthy of reading!

I have never once said that I hate students, I don't even hate teachers or administrators, I am saying that what we do is wrong and counter productive to education. The system itself is abhorrant, my committment to that truth says nothing about all the other stupid things you projected onto me. Your opinion that what I write is BS is as uninformed as you are. Do you have anything intelligent to say about the ideas I expressed? You rail against what you don't understand. You are obviously a product of the educational system I criticize.

Cesar: "after reading that a TEACHER said that she does what she can with what she has! one thing is for sure...WE NEED TO IMPROVE THE QUALITY OF OUR TEACHERS! FACE IT." I believe you misinterpret when someone says "they do the best with what they have". It does not mean that the quality of the teacher is BAD...it means that the support we give our teachers is bad! If you won't give a teacher resources like up to date text books, modern classrooms with a reasonable teacher-to-student ration, and other resources they need to do the job properly then don't complain about the quality of their work! We as a society under fund education then start bitching they are not doing their job. We tie their hands with stupid state regs, under fund them, under pay, show them no respect for their position in society, then jump all over them for doing a poor job when Junior doesn't get good grades. When a child does not succeed in public school it is normally the fault of the parent. Of course most parents would rather blame the teachers than take an honest look at what caused the problem, but then hey, this world is full of stupid people!

There were a half dozen posts about the spelling of your name. GET OVER IT, unless you of course want to perpetuate it by bringing the subject back up!

Paul from Leominster wrote:

Cesar: "after reading that a TEACHER said that she does what she can with what she has! one thing is for sure...WE NEED TO IMPROVE THE QUALITY OF OUR TEACHERS! FACE IT." I believe you misinterpret when someone says "they do the best with what they have". It does not mean that the quality of the teacher is BAD...it means that the support we give our teachers is bad! If you won't give a teacher resources like up to date text books, modern classrooms with a reasonable teacher-to-student ration, and other resources they need to do the job properly then don't complain about the quality of their work! We as a society under fund education then start bitching they are not doing their job. We tie their hands with stupid state regs, under fund them, under pay, show them no respect for their position in society, then jump all over them for doing a poor job when Junior doesn't get good grades. When a child does not succeed in public school it is normally the fault of the parent. Of course most parents would rather blame the teachers than take an honest look at what caused the problem, but then hey, this world is full of stupid people!
There were a half dozen posts about the spelling of your name. GET OVER IT, unless you of course want to perpetuate it by bringing the subject back up!

Paul, it is obvious that your comments and position are stated from an overly self concerned exaggeration of your knowledge. I am sure you think you are a great parent by comparison to others and your lopsided indictment of education being a home problem belies your conceit. Of course everyone knows that parents students and teachers all have vital roles to play in remediation of this fiasco, but do other professions rely on the home for their success???
Francis Beacon tells us to “read not to refute or gain knowledge, but to weigh and consider.” Though anyone educated may well hold Beacon responsible for the new scientific method and the inductive reasoning that has separated our learning from responsibility, he at least knew the antidotes to the danger he knew he was getting into.
I must admit, that if the comments the geniuses on this forum have written in response to the ideas I write were true, than what I have to say would be BS. But weigh and consider, if you can extricate yourself from your certainty, what if what I said were true. What if I added to it that I never give my students rewards, never build self esteem and never pump them up. All I do is expose them to the truth about education through great writings, ideas and works of art and all the students at the school treat me like a rock star. If it is not BS, then we really are in trouble and the self proclaimed einsteins on this forum would have to admit fallibility.
Nobody’s opinion matters here, only the truth and Paul, you are no arbiter of that.

Mark: "I never give my students rewards, never build self esteem...and all the students at the school treat me like a rock star." Boy, you just keep bringing me back to reality don't you! This statement alone reminds me that your mind is not based in reality. Never reward good behavior, and never build anyones self esteem...the hallmark of great teachers everywhere! You never give homework because you think it ruins a students mind to practice a newly acquired skill. WOW, you are just Gods gift to teaching aren't you! Boy, I sure hope you teach PE or something similar.

In a previous post you bash "local teacher" for having a back to school night attendance of 10% then say YOU ALSO have a 10% return rate...then you say "your dismal percentage of back to school night tells me much more about your relationships with your students than it does about the families you are supposed to serve."...then you say your students think you are some kind of God and "treat you like a rock star". So which is it? You have identical back to school night attendance, yet you call "local teacher" a LOSER with 10% and say you are a God and a Rock Star with the same 10%. That 10% tells you "so much"...yet the same 10% tells you so much different about YOUR relationship with your students.

The only intelligent thing you said in here was last Thursday when you said about Local Teacher "I can see by your intelligent comments that your students are inspired by you and love you very much. You must be one of the greatest teachers ever. keep up the great work." I agree with you...I would much rather have a teacher like him than you teaching my children!

SEE WHAT I MEAN ABOUT THE BS, you just keep on throwing it out and think people are going to believe it! You can't even keep your own lies straight. Why would anybody in their right mind believe ANYTHING you write in here...I know I DON'T! As a matter of fact I'm going to stop reading your posts in here. Anything you say from here on out will just serve to feed your ROCK STAR EGO...so be my guest LOSER! Liars and Losers bore me!

Paul, I never said that I had a 10% back to school rate, I said my district does but not me. I also never said any students see me as some kind of god. You are very good at not understanding what I write and mischaracterizing it. CS Lewis has a word to describe a person of your intellectual caliber he called it bulverism.
Let me show you this quote from an essay by Ty Mazzeo that I am sure you will misunderstand
"And rather than refute the statements, many will seek by any means necessary to destroy the credibility of any one who can speak such blasphemy against our noblest profession. C.S. Lewis in the essay “Bulverism” writes of a fictional Ezekiel Bulver, one of the inventors of 20th century thought. Ezekiel Bulver explains,“there flashed across my opening mind the great truth that refutation is no necessary part of argument. Assume that your opponent is wrong, and then explain his error, and the world will be at your feet. Attempt to prove that he is wrong or (worse still) try to find out whether he is wrong or right, and the national dynamism of our age will thrust you to the wall.”
Reasonable argument and discussion have become an illicit means of interaction that carry very costly personal risks."

YOu really think the hallmark of great teachers is giving rewards and building self esteem? YOu must have had a lot of great teachers and it sounds like you were a great student for this system you seem so proud of.(sarcasm paul, sarcasum) You must have been teachers pet, natural for a suck up like yourself to be threatened by words that can begin to penetrate even a thick skull like yours. Are you really so stupid as to not realize that when I said local teacher was great I was being sarcastic?
What lies are you talking about? Keeping them straight?? Paul you are something else aren't you. You would rather have your own children be in a class like Local teachers that follows a bankrupt state mandated curriculum than to give them the gift of their intellectual inheritance? What kind of parent are you when you put your own ignorance and your petty ego in front of what is best for your children? You sound worse than the deadbeat parents you criticize.

I bet you will not read this, because you don't like losers and liars,good one. I know you read this paul and I know you didn’t get it, it is far too complicated for you. I don’t care either way. I also don't write here so people will beleive me. Please don't write back.

Mark: Apparently you are to STUPID to read. I saw a post from "mark" which I ASSUME was to me (there I go again making an ****-out-of-U)...and of course as I told you before I would not read anything from YOU because you are a BIG LOSER! I could blame the S&E for saying I have a reply to my comments, but it was very disheartening to see that reply was from you. Go back and read my last post moron..."I'M GOING TO STOP READING YOUR POSTS IN HERE. ANYTHING YOU SAY FROM HERE ON OUT WILL JUST SERVE TO FEED YOUR ROCK STAR EGO...SO BE MY GUEST LOSER! LIARS AND LOSERS BORE ME!"

Unless of course your post was only meant to boost your over indulgent ego in which case I apologize for thinking it was to me. ROCK ON ROCK STAR!

Ok so I'm gonna jump on the bandwagon here. I do agree that there are problems within the public school system, as there are in every system. However, I believe that if you have dedicated and educated teachers at the school, then your child will do well. Thats if, of course, they get support from the parents. I believe it all starts with the parents. I also work in an elementary school and have told my parents thousands of times, if you have any questions, comments, complaints, anything, please come and let me know. I have given them my school number, home e-mail address and have even given a few my home phone number if they needed to talk about their child. Do you know how many have utilized my invitations? Probably around 10%. It sickens and saddens me that some parents just don't put the effort they should into their childs education. Teachers are always made out to be the bad guys when something happens with the child that's negative. Parents love to twist and turn it around to blame us. I personally have 1 adult and 1 teenage son that have been to both public and private schools. I have attended every parent conference and teachers appointment that I have been asked to go to. When I walk into my sons school (LHS) on conference nights, the lack of parents that are walking around, going to their childrens teachers is sad. The place is empty for the amount of children they teach. What is wrong? The parents are wrong. They claim that because both parents need to work now that they just don't have the time to go. What could be more important than their son/daughters education? NOTHING. You brought them into this world, you need to make the time to attend important things that go on for them.

Now Mark, I read a few of your posts and they just blew me away. I agree that text books and such are way outdated and that some are insignificant to the teachings we give. But I do believe there are a lot of good things in public schools. I have met countless teachers that have been wonderful to my children. Yes, they are nurturing and dedicated. What more can I ask for? They teach what they know and what is given to them as curriculum. If they teach from the heart and with enthusiasm then the kids will want to learn more. I applaud you for being a teacher that the kids admire. Its so important in this day and age that kids have someone to go to if they need them. But I think that you are being harsh with your comments about other teachers. I am also one that the children seem to like. I see children that I've taught that are now in high school that still come to me and give me hugs and tell me I made a difference in their lives. Isn't that all that matters? Role models? People they can trust and talk to? I think that most teachers do care about their students. Lets face it, I know I make crap for money but I stay where I'm at because I love the kids I teach. Its all about the kids. That's why we teach. Its certainly not the money or benefits.

Paul from Leominster wrote:

Mark: Apparently you are to STUPID to read. I saw a post from "mark" which I ASSUME was to me (there I go again making an ****-out-of-U)...and of course as I told you before I would not read anything from YOU because you are a BIG LOSER! I could blame the S&E for saying I have a reply to my comments, but it was very disheartening to see that reply was from you. Go back and read my last post moron..."I'M GOING TO STOP READING YOUR POSTS IN HERE. ANYTHING YOU SAY FROM HERE ON OUT WILL JUST SERVE TO FEED YOUR ROCK STAR EGO...SO BE MY GUEST LOSER! LIARS AND LOSERS BORE ME!"
Unless of course your post was only meant to boost your over indulgent ego in which case I apologize for thinking it was to me. ROCK ON ROCK STAR!

Paul, You are a good sport. I am sorry for ruffling your feathers, it was unkind and uncharitable of me.

Marie P wrote:

Ok so I'm gonna jump on the bandwagon here. I do agree that there are problems within the public school system, as me I made a difference in their lives. Isn't that all that matters? Role models? People they can trust and talk to? I think that most teachers do care about their students. Lets face it, I know I make crap for money but I stay where I'm at because I love the kids I teach. Its all about the kids. That's why we teach. Its certainly not the money or benefits.

Maria, You do the teaching profession a great service by expressing yourself in such a compassionate and articulate manner. I hear and understand you. I too know many kind hearted and caring teachers who have the best of intentions for their students. I don’t completely disagree with you, I just think there is much more than caring for students. What we have lost is value and meaning in our curriculum. Students and parents are justifiably turned off by what kids are forced to do in schools. And the arbitrary and illogical nature of discipline and punishment is confusing. What has disintegrated is that element of ethics. We are required as teachers not just to be good role models, but ethical role models. Not so vague as “doing the right thing” but basing our ethics on such thinkers as Aristotle and Cicero. Modern society is incapable of this because of multiculturalism, which makes every cultural value equal, and egalitarianism, which makes us all, even us teachers, equal. Well we are not equal, our equality as expressed in the Declaration of Independence, was meant to imply our intrinsic value, and that is the sense in which we are equal. Text books are not outdated, they are filled with weak writing and weak ideas that no one could possibly care about on an intrinsic level.
As you can see from the responses to my posts, our educational system cultivates arrogance and certainty where there should be none.
I believe teachers and students are victims of a horrific system that has been eroding for many generations, I just don’t excuse us teachers. I feel that if we are going to call ourselves professional, it is our duty to educate ourselves and do what is right by our students.
Let me make it clear, I never said I was a great or even a good teacher. My students feel about me the way they do because the curriculum I have brought to them. I have much to learn and to improve before I can say I am a teacher.
It is a breath of fresh air to hear your comments expressed that address issues and are not personal attacks. I can see that your students would like you.

Paul from Leominster wrote:

As a matter of fact I'm going to stop reading your posts in here. Anything you say from here on out will just serve to feed your ROCK STAR EGO...so be my guest LOSER! Liars and Losers bore me!

I honestly have stopped reading his posts as well. Regardless of what anyone has to say, our friend Mark will have something negative to bring to it. His big over wordy responces to posts dont ever really address the questions brought to him, but rather over embellish the old saying of "going around the bush" to answer a question by using long, comlicated explanations that move in circles. The article in which this series of posts was for was for extended learning time. Be what it may. Will it work? Who knows. Only when it is implemented and tried for a number of years to gather data on the subject will we really know that answer. Unfortunately, nothing in education seems to stick long enough to get that data. As educators, we need to continue to do the best we can to be sure students are ready for the real world, and we can only hope that our administrators and parents give us the proper support to do so. In an ideal world were teachers are given the opportunity to present a perfect curriculum not mandated and resricted by the school system or the state, I am sure that we could all be as successful as our friend Mark with his curriculum. It came to me as I was writing this that Mark ISP is in CA. Perhaps then he does not have the implications of MA stadards based instruction (which is a topic to debate on its own). Perhaps he does not have admistrators demanding multiple choice bench-marks, or a MCAS test that tests very little useful life skills yet has the ability to prevent a child from graduating. It is not surprising to me that young teachers only make it an average of 5 years before leaving education. Its mentally exhausting. Coupled with the lack of respect in general, from our own fellow teachers and the public, well - its no wonder there is such a shortage. Regardless as to if I agree or disagree with ELT (extended learning time) I will work with it, because I have to. And I will do the best that I can with it. Even if sometimes, my best simply isnt enough.

local teacher wrote:

<quoted text>
I honestly have stopped reading his posts as well. Regardless of what anyone has to say, our friend Mark will have something negative to bring to it. His big over wordy responces to posts dont ever really address the questions brought to him, but rather over embellish the old saying of "going around the bush" to answer a question by using long, comlicated explanations that move in circles. The article in which this series of posts was for was for extended learning time. Be what it may. Will it work? Who knows. Only when it is implemented and tried for a number of years to gather data on the subject will we really know that answer. Unfortunately, nothing in education seems to stick long enough to get that data. As educators, we need to continue to do the best we can to be sure students are ready for the real world, and we can only hope that our administrators and parents give us the proper support to do so. In an ideal world were teachers are given the opportunity to present a perfect curriculum not mandated and resricted by the school system or the state, I am sure that we could all be as successful as our friend Mark with his curriculum. It came to me as I was writing this that Mark ISP is in CA. Perhaps then he does not have the implications of MA stadards based instruction (which is a topic to debate on its own). Perhaps he does not have admistrators demanding multiple choice bench-marks, or a MCAS test that tests very little useful life skills yet has the ability to prevent a child from graduating. It is not surprising to me that young teachers only make it an average of 5 years before leaving education. Its mentally exhausting. Coupled with the lack of respect in general, from our own fellow teachers and the public, well - its no wonder there is such a shortage. Regardless as to if I agree or disagree with ELT (extended learning time) I will work with it, because I have to. And I will do the best that I can with it. Even if sometimes, my best simply isnt enough.

Local teacher, much better post. In California, our system is at least as messed up as yours with all the benchmarks and idiotic assessments and all. I understand that teachers work hard and many are very nice people, but wrong is wrong and if you recognize that even if our hands are tied (if you choose to be a victim of invisible hands) and all these standardized test preps and standards teaching method are not what students need how could anyone advocate doing more to students of what has already failed so miserably.
So you would prefer a happy lie over the miserable truth? NCLB is a dismal negativity, have you found a way to put a positive spin on that? Do you really not understand what I write? Just because you don’t get it you call it wordy and beating around the bush? Do you really believe that? Your contrite closing makes you sound like a humble victim of circumstance. Imagine how your students feel. They don’t need longer days, they need to have a real curriculum with teachers that have a developed enough intellect to deliver. I am sorry I don’t have a feel good message for you local teacher, but don’t worry, your cheerleader Paul will pump up your self esteem, he would love to have his kids in your class.

"Your contrite closing makes you sound like a humble victim of circumstance."

Perhaps I am. And tired of fighting a battle I can't win. Teacher's hands are as you put it "tied by invisible hands". At the attmpt of bringing curriculum relevant, you become scolded for going of course of the mandated instruction.... we become lemmings following a lead.....

"Imagine how your students feel."
Just as frustrated I imagine, considering the drop-out rate is going up, not down.

"They don’t need longer days, they need to have a real curriculum with teachers that have a developed enough intellect to deliver."
I agree with the longer day part, however for the most part they have the teachers with the intellect, just not the curriculum to go with it, and as I have mentioned, teachers (at least in my district) dont get much of a say in that department...

Best of luck to you Mark - I can only hope that some day I will have developed the certain know how you seem to have by way of turning coal into gold.

local teacher wrote:

<quoted text>
I honestly have stopped reading his posts as well. Regardless of what anyone has to say, our friend Mark will have something negative to bring to it. His big over wordy responces to posts dont ever really address the questions brought to him, but rather over embellish the old saying of "going around the bush" to answer a question by using long, comlicated explanations that move in circles. The article in which this series of posts was for was for extended learning time. Be what it may. Will it work? Who knows. Only when it is implemented and tried for a number of years to gather data on the subject will we really know that answer. Unfortunately, nothing in education seems to stick long enough to get that data. As educators, we need to continue to do the best we can to be sure students are ready for the real world, and we can only hope that our administrators and parents give us the proper support to do so. In an ideal world were teachers are given the opportunity to present a perfect curriculum not mandated and resricted by the school system or the state, I am sure that we could all be as successful as our friend Mark with his curriculum. It came to me as I was writing this that Mark ISP is in CA. Perhaps then he does not have the implications of MA stadards based instruction (which is a topic to debate on its own). Perhaps he does not have admistrators demanding multiple choice bench-marks, or a MCAS test that tests very little useful life skills yet has the ability to prevent a child from graduating. It is not surprising to me that young teachers only make it an average of 5 years before leaving education. Its mentally exhausting. Coupled with the lack of respect in general, from our own fellow teachers and the public, well - its no wonder there is such a shortage. Regardless as to if I agree or disagree with ELT (extended learning time) I will work with it, because I have to. And I will do the best that I can with it. Even if sometimes, my best simply isnt enough.

Local Teacher: I totally agree with you and I want you to keep the faith! It is hard when it seems that everybody from the outside is against you, harder still when you see insiders undermining your position. Teaching is a noble profession, not a lucrative one. Everybody wants the best while willing to pay for the least. Mark does not seemed to be grounded in reality, at least with what you have to deal with locally, which is one of the reasons I stopped reading his posts. Spin in circles, get dizzy, and get very angry...that appears what he is good at. While he is busy being a Rock Star you keep educating our children, and your students will be the better for it. THANK YOU for the job you do!