Melee erupts at farmers market drum circle

Xanthippe wrote:

Why do people even bother with Oral Communications to the city council when a simple email will do?

I did email them - 3 times. And phoned. Only one responded - Tony Madrigal. I did what the website says to d to get it on the agenda. Nothing.

So I showed up at the City Council meeting. They made me wait for over two hours. Madrigal requested that Oral Communications be moved to the front and Cynthia Matthews (acting mayor) refused to do it.

They kept me waiting for two reasons:
1. By the time they got around to me, the press was gone (press I had arranged to be there).
2. Most people will not wait that long. When I first got there, I had 20 people. By the end, I had 3.

And after all that waiting, Cynthia Matthews says "this is not the forum for that."

Well, neither were emails or phone calls. It was an education in local government.

I moved here 20 years ago to a quaint beach town with a huge sense of community that is known for liberal ideology, expressive freedom and toleration.
Sure it has changed since then, but Santa Cruz is still known across the world as a place that embodies these values and culture.
I was here before, during and after the earthquake and seen this community pull together and not only survive, but thrive in the face of the complete demolition of the downtown business district.
If drum circles on wednesdays at the farmers market really bother you THAT much, I'm sad to say, you are in the wrong town. You must have just gotten here and been mesmerized by our Borders and Gap and corporate businesses into thinking you were in Los Gatos.
You are not.
Get over it.
If you can't handle people exercising their right to free speech and expression in a peaceful manner at a community farmers market, then you obviously have had too much democracy and you don't know how to handle it.
It's ok, you can move away to somewhere else.
You won't be missed.

So busy and important wrote:

Certainly your petition stating that you were too busy to stick around and wait your turn should have been sufficient cause for them to change the proceedings.

That wasn't Robert's petition - it was MINE. And yes, I am very busy as a small business owner, but I felt it was important to talk to the council about my concerns regarding the police violence last week. Had they answered any of my emails or phone calls, I would not have had to take 3 hours out of my day to sit and wait.

So, because I love and care about this town, I spent a couple of hours writing emails and making phone calls. Then 3 more waiting at the meeting.

As far as I'm concerned, the council personally owes me for lost wages. And I'd love to tack on an annoyance fee for how they treated someone who's concern is what's best for the town.

Cereal Killer wrote:

And after all that waiting, Cynthia Matthews says "this is not the forum for that."
Well, neither were emails or phone calls. It was an education in local government.

You know, that all went right past me. I was so overwhelmed watching a man STRUGGLE to get to the microphone and STRUGGLE to address the council to beg for a day in the park that I couldn't think about much else.

I am glad the two issues did not 'converge'. And I do think it was right to allow the sick and dying to speak first.

Earlier today I spent at least a half an hour on a post here detailing how I felt about the whole thing. I don't dislike the drumming or the drum circle. I think the drumming is one of the things that makes Santa Cruz unique and I by no means want it to go. I actually like the drumming. It says "Something's happening", "Come here", "Follow the sound". I see it as the Santa Cruz version of Hollywood's Klieg lights.

Ed Gregor wrote:

I moved here 20 years ago to a quaint beach town with a huge sense of community that is known for liberal ideology, expressive freedom and toleration.
Sure it has changed since then, but Santa Cruz is still known across the world as a place that embodies these values and culture.
I was here before, during and after the earthquake and seen this community pull together and not only survive, but thrive in the face of the complete demolition of the downtown business district.
If drum circles on wednesdays at the farmers market really bother you THAT much, I'm sad to say, you are in the wrong town. You must have just gotten here and been mesmerized by our Borders and Gap and corporate businesses into thinking you were in Los Gatos.
You are not.
Get over it.
If you can't handle people exercising their right to free speech and expression in a peaceful manner at a community farmers market, then you obviously have had too much democracy and you don't know how to handle it.
It's ok, you can move away to somewhere else.
You won't be missed.

There's that famous Santa Cruz tolerance again.

Remember, folks, we have to
Keep Santa Cruz Weird.

Xanthippe wrote:

<quoted text>
There's that famous Santa Cruz tolerance again.
Remember, folks, we have to
Keep Santa Cruz Weird.

ha!
Good point!
I really don't have any tolerance, after all...

...for attitudes that support fascism from the cops.

I guess we should all tolerate having our freedoms stripped little by little and be obedient, mute consumers.

my jab at people who don't like the drumming and shoiuld move if they don't like it, was merely to point out how petty of an issue it really is. Do these drummers really infringe upon your rights that bad? Are they keeping you from doing what you want/need to do? Are they hurting you in any way?

If not, then what is the big deal about some people playing drums in a parking lot? Can anyone here honestly tell me that the punishment for exercising the right to peaceful assembly should be getting beaten and arrested?

If anyone can honestly justify that, please I'd love to hear the logic.

It's about sharing public space. It's about building community, not just for a few people who like to get together and drum - who could do that in many other places without bothering anyone.

Maybe I should gather up a group of young brand new beginner violinists to serenade the drum circle.

I enjoy music, including drums. What I don't like is cacophony.

Couldn't the drum circle gather elsewhere? Why are the drummers so dead set on imposing their vision of "music" on everyone else?

I'm not a vendor at the downtown farmers market, but I do recall how obnoxious it was to work downtown 20some years ago when the deadheads sat on the mall and sang Truckin out of tune over and over. No air conditioning, it was hot and the windows had to be open - there was no escape.

Why is it so unreasonable to ask for people to be considerate of others?

Go across the street to that parking lot, or to the church lawn, or the beach, or San Lorenzo park.

Xanthippe wrote:

It's about sharing public space. It's about building community, not just for a few people who like to get together and drum - who could do that in many other places without bothering anyone.
Maybe I should gather up a group of young brand new beginner violinists to serenade the drum circle.
I enjoy music, including drums. What I don't like is cacophony.
Couldn't the drum circle gather elsewhere? Why are the drummers so dead set on imposing their vision of "music" on everyone else?
I'm not a vendor at the downtown farmers market, but I do recall how obnoxious it was to work downtown 20some years ago when the deadheads sat on the mall and sang Truckin out of tune over and over. No air conditioning, it was hot and the windows had to be open - there was no escape.
Why is it so unreasonable to ask for people to be considerate of others?
Go across the street to that parking lot, or to the church lawn, or the beach, or San Lorenzo park.

i would love to have the beginning violinists come, there were a couple of beginning trumpet players there yesterday , it was great!!! see you at the circle rosin up your bow. if you cannot stand a noisy work environment i suggest you work somewhere besides downtown, it is a noisy place, a mixture of construction, auto traffic, noisy people laughing and talking, children crying, and yes musicians that dont always sound the greatest. the thing is, work often includes a less than pleasant environment, we work for money, sometimes it requires to endure things we do not like, i went to work the other day, and there were mexicans playing that base heavy polka sounding music that i cannot stand.....oh well, i made my money, and dealt with it, it would be great if the world always looked smelled , behaved, and sounded just the way we would like it, but that is not the case, the world does not revolve around you and what you want. just be happy you have a job at these dark financial times when so many companies are going belly up.

Cereal Kiler:

There was an easy solution that would have saved you wasted time. Show up later in the meeting at the time that is scheduled for public comment.

Unless I've missed something in regards to process, there was a set time when you could comment? It sounds like you and Robert determined that this wasn't acceptable, and therefore took the extra time to work up a petition and try to make the council change it's agenda to suit your personal needs.

If that isn't the case, please clarify.

If it is, then I stick with my comments about your self-perceived importance.

So busy and important wrote:

Cereal Kiler:
Show up later in the meeting at the time that is scheduled for public comment.
and try to make the council change it's agenda to suit your personal needs.
If that isn't the case, please clarify.

The public comment time was moved from the beginning of the meeting to the end (at the beginning of the meeting). I have no connection to Robert Norse, though I know who he is. There were quite a few concerned citizens there to speak and the city council knew most of them would not have the time to sit there for hours.

My ONLY concern that day was that there not be another ugly scene at the Farmer's Market. I was concerned for the safety and well-being of ALL the people in the area, not just the drummers. The police response was way over blown. They tried to arrest people for INFRACTIONS - that is a ticket, not a misdemeanor or felony.

As I've said, I had already called and emailed the city council and received no response from all but one.

Get the drummers OUT of the market. It's air pollution due to their stench, and noise pollution due to the horrible racket they create.

Most people do not want them there. It is a very vocal MINORITY that does not mind them. By all means, everyone should go to the city council. Let them know how much you want the drum noise stopped!!

Clean Up This Town wrote:

<quoted text>
PARASITE SCUM! RUN THEM OUT!
FORCE these corrupters of youth to leave. If we do not stand up to this degenerate FILTH it will overrun OUR TOWN and destroy YOUR FAMILY.

If that's what is wrong with them, then read your own posting and tell me what is wrong with you?

Robert N wrote:

Get the drummers OUT of the market. It's air pollution due to their stench, and noise pollution due to the horrible racket they create.
Most people do not want them there. It is a very vocal MINORITY that does not mind them. By all means, everyone should go to the city council. Let them know how much you want the drum noise stopped!!

Can we ban acrs and trucks from the mall too? They stink and are noise and loud all day, and the cars with thier stereos blasting too? There, no noise and no stink. God I love my job!