Our position: Orange's School Board should support giving high ...

cleavetoo wrote:

What I hope everyone remembers from all this is who started it all. Prop 1 was a bad idea from the start. Our politicians promised us a grand savings of $250/year which translated into millions of dollars in budgets cuts across the state. The school cuts are simply the beginning of more trouble to come. There have been industry incentive cuts that will damage our economy and employment rates. Like it or not, at a time when crime is at an all time high, Police Departments and Fire Departments will also be forced to make tough choices in the coming months and years. I hate to point any fingers but the republican administrations of this country continue to promise tax cuts without ever explaining how they're going to make up the funding for services those taxes covered. They never tell us what it is we'll have to go without in order to make the cuts they wish to make. Everyone wants to pay less in taxes but no one really wants to suffer the consequences of an underfunded government. People need to look beyond the promises and see for themselves how these fiscally irresponsible policies will affect their entire lives, not just their wallets.

AMEN!!!!!!

This time switch has a much bigger impact on all students and families. It isn't just about high school students liking to sleep in; all kids enjoy starting school at a later time.
Eleven year olds (6th graders) will be eating their lunch at 9am each day because middle schools have to break into 6 lunch periods.
Younger children will be left home alone while older siblings are still in school. Younger children will be out in the street waiting for school buses when it is still dark out. This can result in safety risks putting the schools at a higher liability of risk as well.
After school programs (like YMCA) will have a more difficult time finding teachers interested in working after school programs that have to last 4 hours over (instead of just 2).
Families will be impacted with severe schedule conflicts and older siblings may not be able to work to help support the family. Parents will have less time to spend with their younger, more emotional children.
High school students will not be able to do as many after school activities and extra-curricular activities will be negatively impacted. This also robs our children of social and athletic activities such as debate, sports, band/music; all of which lead to a more well rounded and happier high school experience.
This decision is not being made for the children. They should be voting on ways to raise money with local corporations and parents who are willing to put $ toward education rather than rob their children of a well-rounded and enjoyable lifestlye.

Just reading other comments... if this decision is being made to "make a statement" ... shame on everyone!
This isn't republican or democratic... this is common sense.

I agree that the republican administration positioned Prop 1 inaccurately and is hurting all government entities.

By making these decisions, we are just making a bad decision WORSE! And, taking it out on our children is the worst part!

Informed wrote:

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Yes, and you included the Florida Virtual School, an online school in that count. Along with the branches of CEP which don't start until later as it is.
You need to go back and reread these articles and do some more extensive research. You're posting a lot of things you don't fully understand.
Keep in mind research shows high schoolers do better when starting later. You want to short change their education?
Ideally all schools would start around the same time, but Orange County taxayers just don't want to pay for more buses.

...quick question...why does this research only apply to highschoolers? Statistics are a risky thing to use in this case. They convienently overlooked research on what times middle schoolers do better at. Do they learn better at earlier times? Are they so different than us?

Jessica wrote:

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The required scores for this year to override FCAT ACT: 18 SAT: 800. By passing I mean 'meet a minimum requirement'. If a student scores one of these on the ACT or SAT, they can still graduate even if they don't pass the FCAT.

Is it possible to pass if you took the test before & your counselor told you that you needed a 15 on the ACT to waiver the reading portion...
& you took the test in Febuary & they changed it in March would a student still graduate?

Summer90 wrote:

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Is it possible to pass if you took the test before & your counselor told you that you needed a 15 on the ACT to waiver the reading portion...
& you took the test in Febuary & they changed it in March would a student still graduate?

You really would have to ask your counselor! I hope it works out for you.

First, not all young children are awake at the crack of dawn. Every child is different. Second, elem. schools do start between 8:00am - 8:45am.

Next, while middle school children do require more sleep, the 8th grade FCAT is still easier than the 10th grade. Which by the way...if you don't pass you don't graduate.

My final thought is this. It's great that everyone has something to say. Now you need to do something about it. Do you really think the school board said; "What the hell, lets **** off all the parents and change the start times." You gave them no other options. You the parents backed them into it. You passed admenment 1. You lost the service. You lost what little bit of money our schools had to teach and service your children. Tell your house reps to write a new bill. Fix your mistake. It's easy to point fingers. It's not so easy to fix the problems.

Informed wrote:

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There are not 24 high schools in Orange County. I don't know where you're getting your information from.
Since the high schools require so many buses there is not enough time for them to turn around and start an elementary run. So as it stands now there are buses which only do elementary and middle. By switching schedules you could eliminate those buses because there would be time for each bus to do 3 runs. This has all been stated in previous articles.

Count the 9th grade centers!

Dawn wrote:

This time switch has a much bigger impact on all students and families. It isn't just about high school students liking to sleep in; all kids enjoy starting school at a later time.
Eleven year olds (6th graders) will be eating their lunch at 9am each day because middle schools have to break into 6 lunch periods.
Younger children will be left home alone while older siblings are still in school. Younger children will be out in the street waiting for school buses when it is still dark out. This can result in safety risks putting the schools at a higher liability of risk as well.
After school programs (like YMCA) will have a more difficult time finding teachers interested in working after school programs that have to last 4 hours over (instead of just 2).
Families will be impacted with severe schedule conflicts and older siblings may not be able to work to help support the family. Parents will have less time to spend with their younger, more emotional children.
High school students will not be able to do as many after school activities and extra-curricular activities will be negatively impacted. This also robs our children of social and athletic activities such as debate, sports, band/music; all of which lead to a more well rounded and happier high school experience.
This decision is not being made for the children. They should be voting on ways to raise money with local corporations and parents who are willing to put $ toward education rather than rob their children of a well-rounded and enjoyable lifestlye.

Younger children should NOT be left alone. Parents, step up. Make friends, share responsibilities, get them into a program! Quit expecting OCPS to raise your children!

Valerie wrote:

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Younger children should NOT be left alone. Parents, step up. Make friends, share responsibilities, get them into a program! Quit expecting OCPS to raise your children!

AMEN!!!!!!!!!!

Valerie wrote:

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Younger children should NOT be left alone. Parents, step up. Make friends, share responsibilities, get them into a program! Quit expecting OCPS to raise your children!

Not all parents have the luxury of placing their children in programs either for monetary reasons or simply because their children won't participate. Not all parents affected by this will have the means to stay home or find places for their children after school. In addition, the kids who live in rougher neighborhoods will be exposed to bad influences near or on their way home daily. These kids don't usually participate in the after school programs whether they're free or not.

Some folks don't have the money to compete with all the bad things out there. These are the people and children who will suffer most from this policy. And I'm not saying that these kids shouldn't be home alone, I'm saying for one reason or another, these kids will be home alone and nothing good is going to become of it.

cleavetoo wrote:

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Not all parents have the luxury of placing their children in programs either for monetary reasons or simply because their children won't participate. Not all parents affected by this will have the means to stay home or find places for their children after school. In addition, the kids who live in rougher neighborhoods will be exposed to bad influences near or on their way home daily. These kids don't usually participate in the after school programs whether they're free or not.
Some folks don't have the money to compete with all the bad things out there. These are the people and children who will suffer most from this policy. And I'm not saying that these kids shouldn't be home alone, I'm saying for one reason or another, these kids will be home alone and nothing good is going to become of it.

Kids of parents who are not responsible have always stayed at home. That is a symptom of their irresponsiblity.
Middle school's have after school care - that is where the children should and could be.

Smart Thinker wrote:

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Kids of parents who are not responsible have always stayed at home. That is a symptom of their irresponsiblity.
Middle school's have after school care - that is where the children should and could be.

I agree with you wholeheartedly, that these children should and could be in these programs and that the county could create programs where there are none. However, there is what should be, and there is reality. You must live with and treat the symptoms of reality. The reality is that many of these children from lower socioeconomic situations will not go to these programs for one reason or another. Regardless of whether they're parents sign them up for them or not. Many of these folks are single parent families where the adult has to work to pay the rent and cannot police their children without financial consequence. The crime stats for the middle school aged children will be dramatically affected by this school change and that is the reality.

cleavetoo wrote:

<quoted text>
I agree with you wholeheartedly, that these children should and could be in these programs and that the county could create programs where there are none. However, there is what should be, and there is reality. You must live with and treat the symptoms of reality. The reality is that many of these children from lower socioeconomic situations will not go to these programs for one reason or another. Regardless of whether they're parents sign them up for them or not. Many of these folks are single parent families where the adult has to work to pay the rent and cannot police their children without financial consequence. The crime stats for the middle school aged children will be dramatically affected by this school change and that is the reality.

I do not necessarily disagree with you, but this is the problem with focusing things and directing things towards the most negative situations, and asking all to apply themselves to that. Lowest common denominator thinking, which I do think is wrong. In essence we are not just asking the OCPS to be babysitters, but parents, police force, etc - things they were never meant to, and should never, be.
There will always be exceptions to the rules, and there will always be wonderful parents who for want of money, or time, or need NOT be able to be the most responsible to their children.
THAT is probably something OCPS should indeed be ready for, and find ways to compensate for. Perhaps workshops/guidance for those parents who truly feel trapped by this - a little bit of communication and guidance goes an amazingly LONG way!
Thanks for a great response!

Starting at age 8, I came home to an empty house for almost 3 hours.

The rules were simple. First, call Mom & Dad. Next snack and homework. Last, pick up my clothes ect and finally, watch tv or play in the front yard until my parents came home. I finished school, never got involved with drugs and had a great relationship with my parentss.

I had my own child in "extended day", but took him out in 3rd grade because of the incompetence of the woman running the program. My son now does the same thing I did as a child. However, he carries a cellphone with "Chaperone"...a GPS tracking device that my husband and I use to track him all the way home.
He comes home and does what is expected of him ( except cleaning up his stuff--but we are working on that ). I have friends who are stay at home Mothers who can't get their kids to do their homework, nor are their children as independent or self sufficient as my child. Ironically, my house is usually cleaner and I can get dinner on the table almost every night.

Families need to learn to adapt and parents need to be responsible for their own children.....this means rules and time management. Stop waiting for the government to do EVERYTHING for you.

MarathonR wrote:

Starting at age 8, I came home to an empty house for almost 3 hours.
The rules were simple. First, call Mom & Dad. Next snack and homework. Last, pick up my clothes ect and finally, watch tv or play in the front yard until my parents came home. I finished school, never got involved with drugs and had a great relationship with my parentss.
I had my own child in "extended day", but took him out in 3rd grade because of the incompetence of the woman running the program. My son now does the same thing I did as a child. However, he carries a cellphone with "Chaperone"...a GPS tracking device that my husband and I use to track him all the way home.
He comes home and does what is expected of him ( except cleaning up his stuff--but we are working on that ). I have friends who are stay at home Mothers who can't get their kids to do their homework, nor are their children as independent or self sufficient as my child. Ironically, my house is usually cleaner and I can get dinner on the table almost every night.
Families need to learn to adapt and parents need to be responsible for their own children.....this means rules and time management. Stop waiting for the government to do EVERYTHING for you.

Bravo Responsible Parent! Bravo!
True parenting means so much more than putting money in the pocket to pay bills, and you have shown that with some good old fashioned "child rearing" that anything is possible.
While I hate the thought of any child being home alone, I think you have found a safe, strong, and nurturing way to do that.
The problem is, most other parents would say "Pah! I cannot do that" when in fact, all it takes is a little taking on of responsiblity.
Again. Bravo.

Smart Thinker wrote:

<quoted text>
I do not necessarily disagree with you, but this is the problem with focusing things and directing things towards the most negative situations, and asking all to apply themselves to that. Lowest common denominator thinking, which I do think is wrong. In essence we are not just asking the OCPS to be babysitters, but parents, police force, etc - things they were never meant to, and should never, be.
There will always be exceptions to the rules, and there will always be wonderful parents who for want of money, or time, or need NOT be able to be the most responsible to their children.
THAT is probably something OCPS should indeed be ready for, and find ways to compensate for. Perhaps workshops/guidance for those parents who truly feel trapped by this - a little bit of communication and guidance goes an amazingly LONG way!
Thanks for a great response!

Again, I agree that the system wasn't built to raise our children for us. However, when left with no other choice, we have to make the best choices for all children. The system as it was worked for the majority of families and in addition, also left at risk children with less opportunity to realize failure with idol time. Unfortunately, with more idol time on their hands these children (the at risk ones) are bound to find trouble or it will find them. It's a simple fact of life. Some of them will be black, some white, some hispanic...it won't really matter what their races are.

If we leave children of the middle school age to their own devices some of them (and I'm predicting that the number will rise over it's current number) will find trouble sooner rather than later. In order to give these children the best opportunity for success we have to keep them busy...in school. We have to keep the bigger picture in mind. We're solving one problem only to create a larger one. And I realize that this problem might fall into another agency's action item list.

I'm completely fine with babysitting if that's what it is just as long as it keeps young kids off the streets and keeps them from committing crimes that will ruin their lives and the lives of many others.

great idea