Obit for St. Stan's

wondering wrote:

So....can anyone tell me first hand about what happened at midnight mass at St. Stans? Many rumors circulating.

wondering,

it will be difficult to get an objective appraisal for several reasons. 1. Fr. Boyle was very emotional, as were many in the congregation. 2. there had been such a long buildup to the planned closing, that people are bound to read into his homily many of their own projected feelings.3. many of the comments from the crowd were barely audible, so there was not always a clear sense of what Fr. Boyle was responding to.

incidentally, I've heard there were several video cameras present.

having said that, what I recall is that Fr. started his homily by asking "Why are we here?" and answering himself that we were not there because of the holiday, or that it was the last Xmas mass, but rather to celebrate the Mass and commemorate Christ's sacrifice (gesturing toward the cross overhead).

he then said "you either believe in that sacrifice, or you don't. it's simple. it's black and white. and, if you don't believe, there's the door right there" (gesturing toward the doors fronting on Hoosac St.).

if he was looking to provoke a reaction, he succeeded. I was told later that several people from the choir loft took his suggestion to leave literally.

now here we are at the crux of the controversy, because so far, there was nothing theologically wrong with what he had said. and yet, his tone seemed so strident that it seemed there was more on his mind than theology.

and sure enough, over the next five minutes or so we got an earful of how parishioners had not behaved as they ought. he mentioned specifically letters to the editor, blogs and yes, this forum.

his tone was odd because he seemed conflicted. on the one hand he was choking up, reaching out and sincerely trying to connect. and, just as clearly, he was exasperated and belligerent - he wanted convert people to his line of thinking, essentially saying that there were no shades of gray, just black and white. at least, that's how I took his message.

things went downhill from there. he made attempts to have some dialogue with the crowd but these failed.

why did they fail? good discussion topic.

some in the congregation observed that maybe this was not the time nor place for this sort of thing, and urged him to just go back to saying Mass.

eventually, he took their advice. he gave up trying to preach and passed the ball to the visiting priest, who was successful in preaching a homily and in moving the service along.

everyone seemed relieved.

Looks to me like Fr. Dan was looking for an altercation. A true shame that on the day of Jesus' birth, he talked about his his sacrifice (death)
Glad that the parishioners had the sense to tell him that this was not the time or place for this discussion, and to get on with the mass. Seems like he isn't at all sensitive to the feelings of the St. Stan's parishioners at all. But mostly, I doubt that the people would even be objecting to the church closing if it was being closed for the same reasons that all of the other churches had closed (lack of money) I think all that they want at this point is the truth.

People should not be blamed by father for standing up for something they belive in. Just the opposite, father should be proud that he and his fore 'fathers" did a good thing and instilled such a strong faith that they are willing to fight for their church.
Last I checked this is still a free country and father should not be blaming anyone for writing letters the editor or blogging here.
Maybe he has never felt the faith that the parisheners of st stans fell?
keep fighting st stans, I am praying for you!

I am amazed at how cold hearted the parishers of the new Pope john paul are towards those from ST Stans. I have heard alot of complaining, "why are the protesting" "why wont they walk away quietly" "we didnt act like this when they closed st thomas"..\
Seems a bit unchristian to me.?
I think that everyone should be encouraged to fight for what they believe in.
Shame on father doyle and shame on anyone else who thinks like him.Do not be a blind follower!

I think buying the property is a great idea. Has anyone contacted the Polish National Church?

I am not a blind follower. I know my Faith. I take my salvation seriously. I feel for the people of St. Stans, of which I am a member, but I will not hurt anyone over the closing. You all miss the point of what the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass is about anyway. Midnight Mass, no matter how grand or beautiful, is not for our entertainment. At such a holy time, Christ's birthday, people are verbally attacking one another?? Fr. Dan has put up with verbal abuse for way too long. I personally would have left a long time ago and I have strong faith. Please, before you attack even one more person, pray for knowledge, fortitude, widom, hope, but the most important is LOVE! If you acted in love, you would not be so mean spirited. Satan is laughing now.

tacklegirltooold wrote:

I am not a blind follower. I know my Faith. I take my salvation seriously. I feel for the people of St. Stans, of which I am a member, but I will not hurt anyone over the closing. You all miss the point of what the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass is about anyway. Midnight Mass, no matter how grand or beautiful, is not for our entertainment. At such a holy time, Christ's birthday, people are verbally attacking one another?? Fr. Dan has put up with verbal abuse for way too long. I personally would have left a long time ago and I have strong faith. Please, before you attack even one more person, pray for knowledge, fortitude, widom, hope, but the most important is LOVE! If you acted in love, you would not be so mean spirited. Satan is laughing now.

My Friend,

It is my estimation as an observer of the travesty that occurred at Midnight Mass, I feel that is was in no way disrespectful to Fr. Boyle. He provoked the people and that was the first disrespectful act to the Sacrifice that occurs during the Mass and the people he is bound to serve. The people responded in an appropriate way to defend their Church and position. The people of God spoke not the hierarchy and their doctrine.
Regardless, of your personal feelings for Fr. Boyle or the Bishop or the parishioners of St. Stanislaus it is inherently wrong and hateful what the hierarchy is doing to the faithful. Their decision to close St. Stan's reeks of their arrogance, power and greed.

I am sorry, I heard people state "get on with the Mass!". This is not appropriate. I heard people say some of the most mean things. I also know many good people that are hurting over the words used by the angered people. They are DESTROYING our Church. We do not dress our priests up and push them on an altar to entertain us. I heard people gossiping against him before he even came out on the altar. They should have been in quiet prayer, which avails so much more than attacking others. Where does this HATE come from? I really do believe satan is having his day.

Would it be any less arrogant or greedy if they had closed Notre Dame???? Do you think that the parishoners of Notre Dame would have fought any less to keep it open? Didn't the French Catholics not build Notre Dame, the school and the Convent too? Of course they did. Why do all of you think that the Polish Catholics are the only ones suffering because of this? The arrogance of the Polish community to suggest that "Their" church is the only one worthy of being kept open is the true travesty here. Unite and make one strong Caltholic Community that will be able to continue to serve the town of Adams for many years to come.

Shocked - Amazed wrote:

Would it be any less arrogant or greedy if they had closed Notre Dame???? Do you think that the parishoners of Notre Dame would have fought any less to keep it open? Didn't the French Catholics not build Notre Dame, the school and the Convent too? Of course they did. Why do all of you think that the Polish Catholics are the only ones suffering because of this? The arrogance of the Polish community to suggest that "Their" church is the only one worthy of being kept open is the true travesty here. Unite and make one strong Caltholic Community that will be able to continue to serve the town of Adams for many years to come.

My Friend, I totally agree. The Church's arrogance and greed is evident everywhere. And I would be just as deeply disturbed if the hierarchy decided to close another viable Church. But the case stands that St. Stan's is in danger and I pray that it will be saved.

tacklegirltooold wrote:

I am sorry, I heard people state "get on with the Mass!". This is not appropriate. I heard people say some of the most mean things. I also know many good people that are hurting over the words used by the angered people. They are DESTROYING our Church. We do not dress our priests up and push them on an altar to entertain us. I heard people gossiping against him before he even came out on the altar. They should have been in quiet prayer, which avails so much more than attacking others. Where does this HATE come from? I really do believe satan is having his day.

Well you were obviously not praying hard enough if you were listening to gossip. The Priest is not the sole participant in the Mass. We the laity are included. It seems downright despicable that Father would disgrace the Mass by engaging in a verbal battle. The Mass was saved by the people when they all stood and demanded the the Eucharistic celebration continue.

Shocked - Amazed wrote:

Would it be any less arrogant or greedy if they had closed Notre Dame???? Do you think that the parishoners of Notre Dame would have fought any less to keep it open? Didn't the French Catholics not build Notre Dame, the school and the Convent too? Of course they did. Why do all of you think that the Polish Catholics are the only ones suffering because of this? The arrogance of the Polish community to suggest that "Their" church is the only one worthy of being kept open is the true travesty here. Unite and make one strong Caltholic Community that will be able to continue to serve the town of Adams for many years to come.

If they closed St Thomas and Notra Dame and made St Stans THE only catholic church in Adams, I think you would see the same thing happening from the other side. I think everyone should be more tolerant to the other side.

bad news wrote:

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If they closed St Thomas and Notra Dame and made St Stans THE only catholic church in Adams, I think you would see the same thing happening from the other side. I think everyone should be more tolerant to the other side.

St Stan's closing is not the same as other churches closing. First, St Stan's is a viable church. It is completely in the black and is structually sound. Second, the parishioners had no idea before August that this would happen. In North Adams some churches were closed during the winter to save on heat. This never had to be done at St. Stan's. Third, the beauty and historical aspect of this church is profound. Is there even any other church in the world that has a stained glass window of a priest and the three most famous communists? Fourth, St. Stan's is part of a school which is a couple of feet away from its altar. This is the only Catholic school left in the north Berkshires. How much are egos at play with this decision? Why the hurry?

sad wrote:

<quoted text>
This is the only Catholic school left in the north Berkshires.

what about Pittsfield and Dalton?

worker wrote:

<quoted text>
what about Pittsfield and Dalton?

I meant far north berkshires.

There is a school at Notre Dame. It is currently only used for Sunday School, but it could easily be used for Monday-Friday for Catholic school if needed. Notre Dame and St. Thomas are also beautiful churches. Stained glass doesn't make beauty.

I'm not an incredibly religious person. Saint Stan's should not be seen as "just a church" or regular old building. It is a monument to the Polish traditions of Adams; it is historically significant regardless of its status as a church, and must be preserved.

By going quietly and letting the church close, Adams residents would give Springfield free reign to erase the history and heritage of this town. The closure's impact on Catholicism in Adams is irrelevant to me or anyone else who isn't an overt Catholic. Rather, what should matter to all of us is the whitewashing of not just the beautiful ceilings of St. Stan's but of our local history.

It is my hope that Adams culture will be preserved; it would be a tragedy if this town turned into another faceless tourist attraction (minus the attractions, which would have been torn down/closed by then).

Please all try to focus on Jesus...what would HE do??
Our God is a God of Love & Compassion...Many, many fingers may be pointed and bad feelings are had but shall we all humble ourselves and know there is a Gods will and Gods will shall be done....Please take this time to share with one another your memories, support one another for many are feeling similar to you.I believe with all my heart part of Gods plan is that we are to help one another and through our experiences...(yes, good and bad) It is our way to reach out and truly understand what others ar egoing through something similar we have gone through... I will keep you all in my thoughts and prayers...Now, is not the time to separate as a body of believers, but to come together and be stronger! Love ya all sisters and brothers in Christ!!! CJ

Well said ChristianMom. I only hope that we can come together as a community that will continue to reach out to others as the three churches have always done. There are very faithful people in all three churches. Is there any hope that we can unite? Everything is IN God's providence. Maybe all this is about us really taking a good hard look at where our Faith really is. Maybe even if this trial gets one person to convert it is worth it. It is our RESPONSE to this trial that matters. By reading some of these blogs, I could dare say that they are based upon anger and hate. Those two vices do not come from God.

Re: "Shocked and Amazed".....the Polish people are not arrogant, they are "realistic" In no business (and I do sadly feel that the church has become a business) to you take something that is thriving and close it. I believe that the Polish community would be accepting of the church closing if it was done for the right reasons (being lack of money, which was the reason for all of the other closings)