Is what Pats' Belichick did really spying shame?

Obviously a Pats fan. Get a grip dude. They bent the rules. They took the tapes away and low and behold the Giants beat them. How else can you explain how an undefeated team can't finish it off against the Giants?...easy...they didn't cheat that Sunday.

He used video taping as a way to gain a competitive advantage. Isn't that why players are using steroids and being brought before congress? Aren't they both cheating. Also the reporter fails to mention that they were also taping offensive signals which means those hand gestures he speaks of were telling the Patriots exactly what plays were going to be run before the snap of the ball. Why in the world are we defending this?

Does this guy know anything about sports at all? Sign stealing is not frowned upon in major league baseball. It is very difficult, but there is always someone watching the third base coach trying to pick up the signs. If that were not the case, signs wouoldn't constantly be changed. Same thing with a runner on second relaying the catcher's signs to the hitter. Real baeball people know how this is done, and it is the catcher's responsibility to keep the signs complex and changing.

Wallace - while this is certainly a much more balanced article than most I've read you've got one major fact wrong that makes the point of your column even more compelling.

You stated that "The only thing he can't do is use a video camera."

You're wrong. The NFL not only condones stealing signals, it condones the use of video cameras in doing so. You should take a moment to read the NFL manual rule in question. It even specifies where and how the tape should be obtained.

Now there is no question that Belichick violated the rule by having a videographer on the sideline. But I think most would agree that's far less of a sin compared to the perception that Belichick "cheated" by stealing and videotaping signals. That's not cheating as far as the NFL is concerned.

If anyone needs anymore proof (aside from reading the rule), recall that in 2006 the Dolphins were caught using a tape of the Patriots offensive signal calls. Dolphins players were positively giddy about the advantage this gave them. Did the NFL investigate how and where they got that tape to ensure it was in compliance with the rules? No. Did they have the slightest interest in a "scandal" of taped offensive calls? Nope. They said "that's football" and didn't bother looking further.

This MAJOR point that both signal stealing AND videotaping is allowed by the NFL is something that seems like a purposeful omission among most reporters who claim to know the NFL. If any of them had taken even a quick glance at the rule, this "scandal" would never have gotten off the ground.

Joe Six Pack is obviously a Pat's fan and like most people from Boston unwilling to acknowledge the behavior of a flawed character on one of thier sports teams.

Belicheat cheated. He knew the rules and simply ignored them. Goodell reiterated the rule at the beginning of the season to allow for no misinterpretation.

Go eat some chowder and continue to feel inferior to the rest of the country.

Why are the wimpy Jets and their whiny fans so obsessed with the Patriots? No wonder they are the joke of the NFL. They need to worry about themselves, because it looks like another loser of a season coming up.

Jets will win the division and the Pat's will fall to 8 and 8.

Here's another example:

Eric Mangini admitted that he's taped every game from the endzones. There are direct quotes attributed to him saying as much.

A video camera in the endzone violates the same rule that the Pats got punished for, but for some reason the league said what Mangini did was okay because he got "permission" from the opposition. My take is that the NFL let that one slide because they want this particular can of worms resealed. Unlike the average football fan, the NFL knows that not only does every team videotape signals (which is ALLOWED), but they also videotape from places where they're not supposed to be (which isn't allowed, but used to be ignored or brokered by a handshake deal).

Bruce: "Goodell reiterated the rule at the beginning of the season to allow for no misinterpretation." That's a great point, except for this: it was a memo from Ray Anderson, not Goodell; it was issued at the beginning of the 2006 season, not 2007; and the league itself has shown that the rule is open to interpretation. Just regurgitating what the sports media says is exactly the problem here.

Brian...they went 18-0 without taping squat...what more do you want? The fact that they lost the SB is evidence that taping was their entire gameplan? Seriously?

Belichick got pinched for where he was taping from, not what he was taping. That is 100% fact. The Commissioner himself stated that there was no competitive advantage gained, because he knows that the other 31 teams tape signals.

For all of the simpletons saying, "Nope! It's cheating! Cheaters! ASTERISKS!!!"...you really need to read both the rule and the memo. And maybe think a little bit.

Fixit: I did think and I think he is a cheater. He broke the rules and he knew. He is an arrogant little man who thinks he can get away with it.

For all of the simpletons saying, "Nope! It's cheating! Cheaters! ASTERISKS!!!"...you really need to read both the rule and the memo. And maybe think a little bit.

first, i am not a Jets fan. What he did was cheat, teh $500k fine and loss of first round pick proved that. It also puts a blemish on his entire career as a head coach. If i were his playres i would be pissed as they now will always be the team that one 3 Super Bowls with a head coach that cheets, just like they are the best 16-0 team not to win it all. They have great players on that team and did not need to do this. Wish i could understand why he would!

Bruce Dickenson wrote:

Fixit: I did think and I think he is a cheater. He broke the rules and he knew. He is an arrogant little man who thinks he can get away with it.

Okay. You should have read the rule and the memo by now. I also assume you're familiar with all of the pertinent details, such as the Commissioner's statement.

So explain why he's a cheater.*

*You don't really have to explain, because your last sentence tells me why.

Oh and Fixit, they went 18 and 1. Ha.

Also I forgot about Roger Goodell's long history of fining people that don't break the rules. You're right, you must know more the the Roger. I apologize.

Bruce Dickenson wrote:

Oh and Fixit, they went 18 and 1. Ha.

Yeah, that's why I mentioned them losing the Superbowl. See, I said they went 18-0 without taping, which they did. Then, they lost the SB, which they did.

But that was a well thought out argument, Bruce.

Bruce Dickenson wrote:

Also I forgot about Roger Goodell's long history of fining people that don't break the rules. You're right, you must know more the the Roger. I apologize.

You're right. He punished all of the teams who were tampering this offseason, too. After all, he punished San Fran and, uh, and...oh, well I guess no one else was doing it. That'd be a first.

You still think that videotaping signals is against NFL rules, don't you?

1. Page 105 of the Game Operations manual says: "No video recording devices of any kind are permitted to be in use in the coaches' booth, on the field, or in the locker room during the game." It later says: "All video shooting locations must be enclosed on all sides with a roof overhead."

So, the point of your article is that cheating is good?

Why bother with journalism, just run for office.

Bruce Dickenson wrote:

1. Page 105 of the Game Operations manual says: "No video recording devices of any kind are permitted to be in use in the coaches' booth, on the field, or in the locker room during the game." It later says: "All video shooting locations must be enclosed on all sides with a roof overhead."

Oh my God, you're right! Why didn't I think of that?!?

Oh, wait, there's more:

"B. If clubs believe that violations of any of the Origination, Editing, Exchange, or Shipping rules have occurred, such violations should be brought to the attention of the Vice President of Officiating. Also, please inform the Video Directors Committee of any known violations. The Competition Committee will also urge that the Commissioner take appropriate disciplinary action in cases of substantiated violations.

C. Teams will be required to supply a yearly allotment of tapes to the Dub Center at NFL Films. Quantity required per club will be given to each team by May prior to the upcoming season. Tape stock will consist of brand-new 62-minute Beta SX tapes. For the 2007 season, 4,400 NEW tapes will be required.

D. To ensure the protection of equipment and employees of the team's video departments, please follow the guidelines listed for the video shooting locations at your stadium:"

Did you really not notice that the rule says no taping from these three locations, and took it to assume that there was no videotaping of any kind allowed, even though you actually quoted the part about approved video shooting locations in the same paragraph?

Wow. Just...wow.

Again, videotaping signals isn't against the rules. Taping (anything) from the sidelines is. I fail to see how it's cheating to tape from the sidelines, but taping from the endzones is supercool. What's more, I fail to see how ANY logical person can think that way.

Yes now I see. You make a perfect point. The line where it says no video recording devices are permitted really has room for interpretation. You should be an attorney. Nevermind, just stick to being an idiot.

Fixit wrote:

<quoted text>
Again, videotaping signals isn't against the rules. Taping (anything) from the sidelines is.

You're pretty wrapped up in your own argument.
So, to confirm, you agree, they violated the rules with their actions during the jet game?