Karuk Tribe: Gold mining doesn't help fisheries

I would like to know the source of that seemingly unfounded statement about toxiants and mercury. It has been proven that suction dredges recapture century's old mining practices. Why isn't there anything being done about stopping the stocking of NON native voracious fish that feed and eat those salmon eggs.

http://www.inyoregister.com/content/view/1035...
QUOTE:

Bilyeu noted that it is illegal to stock non-native fish in wilderness areas. He also said that in some cases, streams, creeks and other waters flowing out of designated wilderness are off-limits for stocking, as the non-native fish may swim up-stream into the wilderness area.

just because the newspaper didn't cite a reference for that conclusion, doesn't mean that the tribe doesn't have one. the best chance you have of getting an answer would be to call up the tribe and ask. where's your source that non-native fish are being stocked in the klamath?

Reading about the virus killing fish in the Great Lakes and now about the harm to Klamath River fishstocks is surely a poor way to spend a few minutes! Especially, if you are already worried about how enough food, of any kind, is going to be found for your family in these days of shortages and transportation interruptions.

So, the the Governor of California as well as all others of our political leaders must take a stand to protect our fisheries: in all rivers, streams, lakes and saltwater.

After all, a cold blooded fish when growing its edible flesh uses less energy than does a warm blooded animal.

Save energy protect our fisheries!

Keep up the good work!

Best regards,

Knick Pyles
hkpyles@dccnet.com

I've seen plenty of Cascadia slamon swimming past glacial flour in the water. Climate Shift is bringing less rain to N.California and S. Oregon- with records broken as you go North.

Are you kidding me? The Karuk tribe lines the Klamath with gill nets killing Kings, Silvers and Steelhead that have run the gauntlet and made it into the river but they feel compelled to attempt to stop regulated mining? As soon as they pull the nets and show that they actually are concerned about the fish runs and not just another buck in their pocket then I'll stand side by side with them when they choose to attack someone else. Clean your own house.

I care about salmon wrote:

Are you kidding me? The Karuk tribe lines the Klamath with gill nets killing Kings, Silvers and Steelhead that have run the gauntlet and made it into the river but they feel compelled to attempt to stop regulated mining? As soon as they pull the nets and show that they actually are concerned about the fish runs and not just another buck in their pocket then I'll stand side by side with them when they choose to attack someone else. Clean your own house.

I believe you are refering to the Yurok Tribe, not the Karuk Tribe, when you mention gill netting. The Karuk Tribe does not have a federally recognized fishing right to subsist on salmon (as they have forever). The Yurok Tribal gill net fishery is a well regulated and scientifically based endevour, the majority of the fish captured are for food, and not for profit or fun. Half of the harvested Klamath River fish are taken by non-Natives, sport and commercial fishermen, who are also involved in this story. Should they stop fishing as well?

Let's see... Quote "the Karuk Tribe along with commercial and recreational fishermen are asking the governor to restrict suction dredge mining, a gold mining technique believed to harm fish.
It's one thing to believe (or think) that dredging is the cause of the declining salmon population, but that doesn't make it so.
CA DFG says: Over the past 15 years, the Sacramento and its tributaries have held runs of more than 200,000 fish. In 2007, the spawning salmon fell to just over 90,000. That’s the second lowest total since 1973 and included both wild and hatchery-raised fish.
Well.... Suction dredging has been around for those 15 years... when the salmon population was at record levels and now that the population is declining.
So what's the real story and who should we believe?
The National Oceanographic Administration says that changing ocean conditions is the principle cause of the dramatic drop in salmon. The Pacific Fisheries Management Commission has gone further and identified other reasons for the decline in salmon in California, Oregon and Washington. "There are things that we can't change, like ocean conditions, but there are conditions we can change like diversions of water from Delta, unscreened pumps, dams, loss of habitat and poaching of adults and smolts."
If the Karuk tribe wants a sure fire solution to the declining salmon population....perhaps they need to try a year long moratorium on fishing.

There is a already suction dredging season imposed upon miners. This season prevents the miners from being in the river during periods of spawn and hatch of salmonoids and most other fish.
The Karuk tribe does not mention that the dredging process captures and removes nearly ALL the mercury that get processed through any dredging operation. And that's a good thing. Furthermore, the Karuk tribe does not mention that they themselves are responsible for the deaths of thousands of fish each year via various fishing methods. Why are they not stepping up and placing a moratorium on fishing for salmon themselves? What are their real mostives here?

Captain Mark Murphy wrote:

There is a already suction dredging season imposed upon miners. This season prevents the miners from being in the river during periods of spawn and hatch of salmonoids and most other fish.
The Karuk tribe does not mention that the dredging process captures and removes nearly ALL the mercury that get processed through any dredging operation. And that's a good thing. Furthermore, the Karuk tribe does not mention that they themselves are responsible for the deaths of thousands of fish each year via various fishing methods. Why are they not stepping up and placing a moratorium on fishing for salmon themselves? What are their real mostives here?

and what kind of fishing do they do to cause "thousands" of deaths?

To answer the Prof. a joint study was conducted by State Water Resources Control Board, Dept. of Fish and Game, United States Forest Service and published in May 2005,investigated the mercury/suction dredge issue.

To summarize the relevant conclusions and recommendations this study found; “Mercury concentrations in the fine and suspended sediment lost from the dredge were more than ten times higher than that needed to classify it as a hazardous waste, and recycled to the environment”. So much for the premise of instream suction dredge mining is a good thing when it comes to mercury in our rivers.

Also the reason CDFG is being required to revisit the 1994 CEQA document is because it is and was a flawed document from the start and I quote “the Departments current opinion that suction dredge mining under the current regulations in the Klamath, Scott and Salmon watersheds is resulting in deleterious effects on coho salmon”(Neil Manji CDFG Fisheries Program Manager). Not to mention this hobby mining overlaps with sturgeon and lamprey spawning and rearing.

Nobody is putting the demise of salmon at the feet of instream mining hobbyist, it is just one more impact which contributes to the decline.

As to tribal fisheries, please refer to Salmon Sam's and Pave the Redwoods comment.

Same old propaganda, "At the same time, opponents say, the dredging disturbs spawning gravels, killing the salmon eggs and immature lamprey that live in the gravel." NO DREDGING is allowed in active spawning streams during spawn or hatch.
�We need the governor to take a stand with Native People and the 2.2 million anglers in California -- not 3,000 recreational gold miners, WHO do you think "stresses" fish more, 2.2 million people intentionally trying to drag the fish out of their environment or 3000 dredgers? There has never been even ONE documented fish kill by a suction dredge.

Mosby wrote:

To answer the Prof. a joint study was conducted

>>>snip

The conditions of the study to which you allude were "set up" to show those data.
They used raw mercury in highly concentrated form for the test. There was no gold introduced into the dredged material. The mercury recovered by miners is amalgam. It is "attached" to the gold and therefore the dredge is much more effective at capturing nearly all of it. Furthermore any mercury which may escape the dredge is still amalgamed with the gold and falls directly into the tailings. Additionally, dredgers recover nearly all heavy metals found in the waterways - mercury, lead, steel, iron, and of course noble metals. When we leave, the rivers and streams are safer places for all.
The rebuttal to that study was that is was materially flawed - the data were not submittable to any true comparison of actual dredging.
By the way - spend some time in Orleans in late Sept, Oct, and early Nov. You will see more caught fish than you'd ever imagine hanging from the drying racks. Same thing in Hoopa, Somes Bar, Witchepec, and all up and down the fisheries. Dredgers didn't kill those fish. And it doesn't matter how those fish were caught - they are all dead.

As to your take on the mercury report, I'll leave discussion to others.

On the other hand the comment about the "drying racks" is completely false, bordering on ludicrous.

I live on the river and I have yet to see a "drying rack" which leads me to suspect the validity of your mercury comments.

Oh by the way I can imagine a lot of fish, it's too bad the instream mining hobbyist are hammering the habitat so they can play miner.

Mosby - I know what I'm talking about. You apparently do not. The Karuk tribe (and others) puts on a number of annual rituals which involve hanging Salmon out to dry or to be smoked. Your post indicates that the fish kill by the tribes and other fishermaen isn't happening. Well, sorry, but the slaughter does happen and thousands of river fish are killed every year. You folks like to say they "are taken." Fine.

Furthermore, you have never even spent five minutes on a dredging operation in any river, have you? Fish are far too savvy to be sucked up by a dredge nozzle, and miners activities promote the development of habitat suitable for redds. That's a good thing.

And we permanantly remove mercury and other toxins from the waterway. That's a good thing too.

Its a brave new world out there. Perhaps you should reconsider the way you see what's really going on in it.

Mr. Soto asserts that dredging reintroduces mercury to the stream. This was the conclusion of a test (not a scientific study) done by California Water Boards. The rest of the conclusion was that suction dredges removed 98% of the mercury that passed through their sluice.

So then, Mr. Soto would have us believe that it is better to leave 98% of the resident mercury in a watercourse than to take it out??? What kind of skewed logic is that? As of this date, suction dredge miners are the only entity working to remove mercury and lead in the form of fishing sinkers old batteries and bullets from our rivers and doing it at no charge to citizens or our state.

The Fisherman kills the Salmon not the recreational dredgers.
Sorry bat this is the trues.
And was Leaf said...

�We need the governor to take a stand with Native People and the
2.2 million anglers in California -- not 3,000 recreational gold miners,� Karuk Tribal member Leaf Hillman said.

Every angler can get 3 Salmon a day. Every Salmon hat 10 to 30.000 eggs or sperm.

Pleas thing bay your self.

I have always felt females of a species should be protected if you want them to prosper. Disturbing a river bottom should not be done unless for health reasons (remote). Before something is allowed the first rule should be "Do no harm".

Sounds like alot of speculation, There have been studies in Alaska that say Dredging has no impact on fisheries. Some say it is even benificial. Suction dredges move gravels from one spot in the river to a spot close by, Natural floods do this but on a much larger scale. Sound to me someone needs to get the facts and not point fingers at the easiest scapegoat. WHERE IS THE PROOF?????

I live on the Klamath River and have been panning for gold for 58 years. In that time I've been robbed, stabbed, shot at, and now for the 12th time I have Meth-heads illegally on my property cooking their toxic brew, and EVERY one of them a YUROK TWEAKER! They dump their toxic waste and propane right in the river. What a bunch of Indian Scum!

what a crock , here we go again, a bunch of cry babys that did not get enough moneys from thier welfare payments. or from the fish they harvested,or that are not getting enough from Casino payments,are now going to try to stop on of the few things the weekend miner can do. GPAA
members it is time to unite, fire up the outdoor channel and the LDMA and unite 300,000 plus members and fight this...