Aurora rejects clinic foes' claim

It's high time there was some thought and reason brought to this debate. The Aurora City Council is running scared from a bunch of nuts intent on forcing their religious beliefs on the community at large through harassment, intimidation and terrorist-like tactics.

I sat in on the City Council Meeting Tuesday. One woman got up to speak and said that those of us who supported Planned Parenthood were nothing more than "prostitutes who just don't get paid for it." Another said that Planned Parenthood would infect the ground water with STDs and HIV. These people are crazy.

Open up the clinic so women have adequate access to necessary healthcare. The Pro-Life Action League et al. should head off to Afghanistan if they are bound and determined to live in a theocracy!

C Hamilton wrote:

It's high time there was some thought and reason brought to this debate. The Aurora City Council is running scared from a bunch of nuts intent on forcing their religious beliefs on the community at large through harassment, intimidation and terrorist-like tactics.
I sat in on the City Council Meeting Tuesday. One woman got up to speak and said that those of us who supported Planned Parenthood were nothing more than "prostitutes who just don't get paid for it." Another said that Planned Parenthood would infect the ground water with STDs and HIV. These people are crazy.
Open up the clinic so women have adequate access to necessary healthcare. The Pro-Life Action League et al. should head off to Afghanistan if they are bound and determined to live in a theocracy!

100% agree and I am anti-abortion BUT I'd rather have woman using the services at Planned Parenthood and being safe. Abortion is only a very small part of what they do.

The best comment I've read so far in response to the signs that read, "Planned Parenthood is Bad for Aurora" came from a 16 year old young man when he asked... "So is unplanned parenthood good for Aurora?"

Religion is good when you believe in something. Throughout history it has caused problems though when it's being forced upon people. Do as Jesus commanded, feed the poor, take care of the homeless and don't throw stones unless you are without sin.

Deb wrote:

<quoted text>
100% agree and I am anti-abortion BUT I'd rather have woman using the services at Planned Parenthood and being safe. Abortion is only a very small part of what they do.

Safe for who?

Great, satan. In the meantime, let's hope your daughter and other loved ones have access to all the health care services they need so they aren't reunited with you too soon.

Somebody please get these Christianoid nut-cases out of my town!

I live very close to Aurora, and am not particularily religious. In fact, that might be overstated. Anyway, I oppose abortion because it's rarely used to "save the mothers life" or for incest. It's used PRIMARILY by those who've decided to abort a life they VOLUNTARILY created, because it isn't CONVENIENT for one reason or another.

I hate to use one sides catch phrases, but it's NOT really a choice....it's a friggin' child.

Someday it will be illegal, and future generations will be amazed we as a civilizd society took so long to do it.

If you are against abortion then fight the fight on that issue, not whether or not they got the correct permit. In the end they can just resubmit for the paper work and then your real reasons will have to emerge.

I will not argue for or against abortion. What I will say is, that for now, it is legal. Until that changes then Aurora will not be able to stop this clinic from opening eventually.

Mike wrote:

Christ did not say hump your girlfriend and then ask others to get your rear out of the fire. You must have stage 3 Syp. The best comment I've read so far in response to the signs that read, "Planned Parenthood is Bad for Aurora" came from a 16 year old young man when he asked... "So is unplanned parenthood good for Aurora?"
Religion is good when you believe in something. Throughout history it has caused problems though when it's being forced upon people. Do as Jesus commanded, feed the poor, take care of the homeless and don't throw stones unless you are wi

Unless they are Mexican Americans, right Mike.

I posted this a few hours ago on another a similar thread on topix.net but I cross-post it here.

Planned Parenthood *is* bad for Aurora. See the reasons below. The nonsense about a 16 year old who has no idea what he is talking about, etc. There is *no one* being deprived of either abortion or medical services in Aurora. With or without money. That is a complete farce and a fraud. In addition, planned parenthood has occupied the building and is conducting business. Their phone and internet records should be subpoenaed by the court because they will prove they have been doing much more than just stocking shelves and arranging furniture.

See the pictures under the heading, "
Aurora reneges, gives PP squatters' rights"; at jillstanek.com . You'll see how they arrange furniture that his instructions on how to call residents to try and drum up support to open the clinic they are already occupying without a permit.

Glad to see that Aurora is serious about law enforcement.

gain the *facts* are :

1) The last abortion provider that operated in Aurora closed due to lack of patients. The tenant was evicted because he couldn't even pay his rent.

2) There are a *wealth* of places in the Aurora for *any* woman in the area to get care (more on that below).

3) No less than 3 abortion clinics operate in nearby suburbs less than 15 miles from the location of this facility. I believe there are also more abortion facilities available in Ottawa, Champaign, and Bloomington for those that live more toward central Illinois.

4) For those of you that live in states that don't have programs like this, Illinois already has a program where *all* low income women have access to all of the services planned parenthood provides,*throughout the state* and available at any provider. You can read more about it here :

http://www.illinoishealthywomen.com

There are *no* women who are being deprived by the lack of this clinic. If you can find one that couldn't get the same services elsewhere and quite possibly even closer in Illinois, for the same cost, I'd like to know why they couldn't. In IL, it's free if you are in a low income situation.

5) Although I've never been to a Planned Parenthood, it appears that their care is rarely "free", and if it is I would bet Planned Parenthood gets federal re-imbursement under Title X of the Health and Human Services Act. Here is a sample fee schedule I found (and they appear to be hard to find, at least online). Note that an abortion is not "free", it is on a sliding scale. I've been married for quite a while so I know how much some of these services cost at market prices. And these appear to be for the most part market prices. I believe their claim of "low cost" and "free" comes from Title X money and from programs like Illinois Healthy Women. Here is at least one of the schedules I found :

http://www.plannedparenthood.org/ppcna/cost-f ...

These are facts, not legal meandering and supposition. This is what Planned Parenthood is all about.

Meanwhile, Planned Parenthood, through their intentional secrecy and refusal to work with police agencies against *real* criminals that should be off the street, perpetuates the abuse of children and women every day.
This clinic is nothing other than a publicity stunt by Planned Parenthood. If they really wanted to help women who needed help, they would have built in a state that either had no abortion services at all (such as Mississippi I believe), and that didn't already have a state program that provided insurance for low income women.
Instead, they picked a location that is right around the corner (literally, I'm not joking) that has it's own Women's Health Center, and in one of the best served (as far as medical services) in the US.
Get the *facts*.

Sam Adams wrote:

<quoted text>
Safe for who?

Safe for the woman, of course. She is a real viable person.

KEEP IT LEGAL KEEP IT SAFE. HEALTH CARE IS NOT SOMETHING TO FIGHT. plus..something called the separation of church and state happened. Please, keep your church off my state.

someonewholiveshere wrote:

5) Although I've never been to a Planned Parenthood, it appears that their care is rarely "free", and if it is I would bet Planned Parenthood gets federal re-imbursement under Title X of the Health and Human Services Act.

FACT: No one ever claimed all of PLanned Parenthood's services were free. We live in a capitilistic country, nothing is free.

FACT: Even services performed under religious institutions are not Free. You even have to pay a priest in order to get married (and let's not forget the collection plate).

FACT: The federal government, under the current administration, gave away more then 5 BILLION dollars to "Faith-based inititive" programs, and abstinince-only programs, so please don't cry foul at government assistance.

So please, by all means, let's get the *facts* out there.

someonewholiveshere wrote:

Meanwhile, Planned Parenthood, through their intentional secrecy and refusal to work with police agencies against *real* criminals that should be off the street, perpetuates the abuse of children and women every day.
This clinic is nothing other than a publicity stunt by Planned Parenthood. If they really wanted to help women who needed help, they would have built in a state that either had no abortion services at all (such as Mississippi I believe), and that didn't already have a state program that provided insurance for low income women.
Get the *facts*.

Please give me one example where PP has done anything to support criminals, or to encourage the abuse of women and children?!? What?

The greatest abuse in our world today toward women is the patriarchy deciding what is best for them

"You can't work as well as a man"
"You should stay home, cook and have kids"
"We get to decide if you can keep the child"
"You're not married, you're not fit to be a mother" (this has become less recently, but very recently)

Mississippi? The reason they don't have clinics there is because THEY GET BOMBED! So please, if you think there should be a clinic in Miss., go down there and stop your fellow self-righteous, criminal, so-called "pro-life" supporters from killing innocents in the name of children.

So many of these "pro-life" folks puzzle me -- so many claim to be Christian, but they sure don't act it... They're not pro-life, they're simply pro-birth.

Then it's "lower my taxes"... screw the poor, they should be able to pull themselves up by their own bootstraps... Healthcare for children? Screw them too... Oh, and while we're at it, let's send your daddy's job out to Mexico or India or China who we'll have more of you hungry kids hanging around...

The'll make damn sure you're born -- but once that happens, they wipe their hands of any further "obligations"... Do you really think Jesus would be proud?

I have never read so many lies, and misconceptions in my entire life. I'm pro life and proud of it. Fact: in Texas PP is undergoing trial for giving an abortion to a minor and not informing the Police that the admitted father was an adult thus having repeatedly committed rape. Why doesn't PP inform the police when the girl is a minor, and the Father is an adult? Come on PP open up the books to stop the rapists! Fact: this clinic by not opening is not preventing anybody from getting Health Care in Aurora. There are numerous places for Health Care where human beings can get all kinds of care. Fact: God is on the side of pro-lifers because one of the ten commandants is "Thou shall not kill". Fact: PP kills everyday! Fact: No one is forcing religion on anyone! The pro-lifers are protesting the baby killers killing babies! Fact: The most important issue here is that freedom of speech allows pro-lifers to protest without being put down, or given a bad time, just like at the rally for the Jena 6. Last Fact: If pro-lifers want to use every legal means at their disposal to shut down abortions at the PP clinic so be it. PP does the same thing to stay open and kill defenseless babies everyday. You judge a society by how it defends its weak, and those unable to defend themselves. That being the unborn fetuses that PP says aren't real.

someonewholiveshere wrote:

In addition, planned parenthood has occupied the building and is conducting business. Their phone and internet records should be subpoenaed by the court because they will prove they have been doing much more than just stocking shelves and arranging furniture.

The problem here is that if you want the court to subpoena records the government must have probable cause (that is guaranteed by the 4th Amendment). And your suspicions are simply not going to hold up to the legal standards required by probable cause.

Clarence wrote:

I have never read so many lies, and misconceptions in my entire life. I'm pro life and proud of it. Fact: in Texas PP is undergoing trial for giving an abortion to a minor and not informing the Police that the admitted father was an adult thus having repeatedly committed rape. Why doesn't PP inform the police when the girl is a minor, and the Father is an adult? Come on PP open up the books to stop the rapists! Fact: this clinic by not opening is not preventing anybody from getting Health Care in Aurora. There are numerous places for Health Care where human beings can get all kinds of care. Fact: God is on the side of pro-lifers because one of the ten commandants is "Thou shall not kill". Fact: PP kills everyday! Fact: No one is forcing religion on anyone! The pro-lifers are protesting the baby killers killing babies! Fact: The most important issue here is that freedom of speech allows pro-lifers to protest without being put down, or given a bad time, just like at the rally for the Jena 6. Last Fact: If pro-lifers want to use every legal means at their disposal to shut down abortions at the PP clinic so be it. PP does the same thing to stay open and kill defenseless babies everyday. You judge a society by how it defends its weak, and those unable to defend themselves. That being the unborn fetuses that PP says aren't real.

So PP's error in Texas means that PP should not be allowed a facility in Aurora? By your reasoning the Catholic Church is entirely bad because a few bad priests molested young boys, right?

I am solidly pro-life and make no excuses for it. I have spent countless hours outside PP facilities, and there are a few truths that are indisputable.
1) Legal abortion does not equate to Safe abortion. Although they usually arrive without sirens and lights, PP gets its fair share of ambulances.
2) PP nationally has had its share of wrongful death suits from families of women who have died from 'legal' abortions. This is pretty much true of all abortionists. It also applies to chemical abortions and RU486. You might recall the national coverage of several deaths that occured resulting from PP clinics deciding (without FDA approval) to administer the process in a manner that was less expensive to PP and therefore increased their profit margin at the expense of their clients.
However much I dislike PP and think they are evil, the bottom line on the Aurora issue is whether or not the city would have allowed the building permit had they known it was intended to house an abortion clinic. Even people who are pro-choice may not want an abortion mill in their town. By deliberately deceiving the authorities, PP denied Aurora's officials and citizenry the ability of making an informed decision. That is fraud.
On another note, my local PP clinic has pink or red ribbons tied all around the clinic in support of their brother/sister abortion clinic in Aurora. Isn't that sweet? Ah gee, we can't abort babies yet in Aurora so let's tie ribbons on the trees until we can. You have to have some kind of sick mind to come up with that. Oh. Right. We ARE talking about PP>

KatieMac wrote:

On another note, my local PP clinic has pink or red ribbons tied all around the clinic in support of their brother/sister abortion clinic in Aurora. Isn't that sweet? Ah gee, we can't abort babies yet in Aurora so let's tie ribbons on the trees until we can. You have to have some kind of sick mind to come up with that. Oh. Right. We ARE talking about PP>

Sorry Katie.....what's sick is the freakish crosses that the pro-life nutjobs plant in the ground all around PP. As a parent, I'm ashamed to have to explain this crap to my kids. I'd much rather they have a place -- like PP -- to go if they need something. Grow up!