Conservatives must speak up on this issue

What a bunch of misleading and wrong information. How far and how deep can you cram your head in the sand? Even Bush acknowledges global warming. Bus, for gosh sakes. The scientists to which you refer are on the periphery of science. The vast, vast majority of credible scientists have long ago declared and verified global warming.

No where in the letter is global warming disputed.

What is being disputed is the nonsense surrounding the cause.

Now as in the past, rises in Co2 levels have followed rises in tempature, not preceded them.

The Earth is currently coming out of a mini near-ice age that lasted for a thousand years or so.

There is absolutley no credible evidence that anything man has done has had, or will have an effect on the earths overall climate.

Man did not cause global warming, and there is nothing that man can do to stop it.

common sense wrote:

What a bunch of misleading and wrong information. How far and how deep can you cram your head in the sand? Even Bush acknowledges global warming. Bus, for gosh sakes. The scientists to which you refer are on the periphery of science. The vast, vast majority of credible scientists have long ago declared and verified global warming.

Well, I know you are far more knowlegable than the vast majority of world scientists, John, but, unfortunately, they disagree with you, as do I. The problem is not with the cyclic nature of warming and cooling. The problem lies in the accleration of warming coinciding with increases in CO2. I am reminded of the tobacco industry trotting out phalanxes of "scientific experts" that testified to Congressional committees that nicotine was not addictive. They did it with a straight face and they did it to preserve their business. The "experts" dredged up by this administration do the same thing. Why, of course, Mobile-Exxon is going to find "experts" to portray their point of view. Who could blame them? However, as you quoted me above, even George W. admits a correlation. McCain is on the stump extolling us to do something about global warming. He isn't imploring the environment to fix itself, or explaining how it is something out of the control of humans. YOUR presidential candidate is developing strategies designed to confront the warming of our globe caused by.......the human element. Interesting. I am sure die-hard neo-cons will come to your rescue, but even their own kind are realizing how empty and dangerous their argument is.

First off, I have no presidential candidate. If I find someone worth voting for I'll let you know.

Just because politicians jump on board a scheme to grab money and power, doesn't mean it has any scientific validity.

Rises in Co2 levels followed rises in tempature, they didn't precede them.

Maybe you should try questioning the entire concept a little more.

common sense wrote:

Well, I know you are far more knowlegable than the vast majority of world scientists, John, but, unfortunately, they disagree with you, as do I. The problem is not with the cyclic nature of warming and cooling. The problem lies in the accleration of warming coinciding with increases in CO2. I am reminded of the tobacco industry trotting out phalanxes of "scientific experts" that testified to Congressional committees that nicotine was not addictive. They did it with a straight face and they did it to preserve their business. The "experts" dredged up by this administration do the same thing. Why, of course, Mobile-Exxon is going to find "experts" to portray their point of view. Who could blame them? However, as you quoted me above, even George W. admits a correlation. McCain is on the stump extolling us to do something about global warming. He isn't imploring the environment to fix itself, or explaining how it is something out of the control of humans. YOUR presidential candidate is developing strategies designed to confront the warming of our globe caused by.......the human element. Interesting. I am sure die-hard neo-cons will come to your rescue, but even their own kind are realizing how empty and dangerous their argument is.

So, John, you deny that there is a correspondence between CO2 levels and rising temperatures? They are disjoint? Something else, possibly unknown to the vast majority of atmospheric scientists worldwide, is causing the unprecedented spike in average temperature on the planet? What do you know of this additional greenhouse emission? Methane is one of them, but the reason it not mentioned as much as CO2, obviously, is that it is not directly part of the photosynthesis that drives life processes. This whole argument is analagous to the ones I follow between "new earthers" and science. They can trot out their own scientists who adamently and persuasively, to their own kind, posit that all the accumulated scientific evidence over the decades is wrong, and they have the truth, albeit they have no proof of their own. Their argument is always that the other side is wrong, not that they have any credible evidence to the contrary. They find fault in the research of the ones trying to find the solutions. If the real problem lies in the question as to whether escalating global temperatures are man-caused, then perhaps the other side of the argument can find the reason why the cycle is being exaggerated as it is. I don't hear their explanation. Hmmmm?

And for the record, I am a fiscal Goldwater conservative. I am not a neo-con Bush-o-phyle wacked out conservative. So when you put out your call for conservatives to rally to the cause, I did!

There is NOT 100% proof that man alone is responsible for any aspects of global warming.

Yet, they are going to pass all of this "green" legislation----which will force more and more businesses to lay off employees so that they will be able to comply.

Also, think of what it is going to do to the auto industry.

Not all countries will have to follow the "green" laws. So, more and more US businesses will just pack their bags and head for China, India, Mexico, etc.

There will be no legislation to punish businesses for moving to these other countries---such as higher tariffs/taxes.

The US will continue to trade with these countries---even though they will be forcing more and more US businesses out of business-----and be the cause of more and more US citizens losing their jobs.

Being that Gore and all of the Hollywood elite own mansions and private jets----what "exactly" are they doing to help the environment----except for telling all of the little people what they should do????

So the answer is to do nothing? Sounds good to me! If that isn't a Bush answer, I don't know what is! Oh wait, maybe it will just go away. Or we can ruin the planet. I vote for hoping it will go away!

Tens of thousands of peer-reviewed scientists agree that there is a danger of global warming; dozens of oil-industry-funded scientists agree that there is no danger.

I didn't say they weren't related. I said the relationship is reversed. Tempature rise preceded Co2 rise.

And who says the process is exaggerated? We have sketchy evidence of the tempature fall over the last thousand years in historical accounts.
Going back beyond that to the last major climate change the record gets even thinner.

What makes you think that there should be one readily identifiable factor for climate change?
The very complexity of earths climate tends to compensate for single source changes.

The number one greenhouse gas is water vapor. But it too has a self limiting effect.

Man probably has had some effect on the climate. But the scale of that effect is like arguing the exact distance to the moon in milimeters.

If you want to buy snake oil, then go ahead and buy it. Just don't expect it to cure anything.
And don't expect me to buy it.

common sense wrote:

So, John, you deny that there is a correspondence between CO2 levels and rising temperatures? They are disjoint? Something else, possibly unknown to the vast majority of atmospheric scientists worldwide, is causing the unprecedented spike in average temperature on the planet? What do you know of this additional greenhouse emission? Methane is one of them, but the reason it not mentioned as much as CO2, obviously, is that it is not directly part of the photosynthesis that drives life processes. This whole argument is analagous to the ones I follow between "new earthers" and science. They can trot out their own scientists who adamently and persuasively, to their own kind, posit that all the accumulated scientific evidence over the decades is wrong, and they have the truth, albeit they have no proof of their own. Their argument is always that the other side is wrong, not that they have any credible evidence to the contrary. They find fault in the research of the ones trying to find the solutions. If the real problem lies in the question as to whether escalating global temperatures are man-caused, then perhaps the other side of the argument can find the reason why the cycle is being exaggerated as it is. I don't hear their explanation. Hmmmm?

So, John, why is McCain, and even Bush, recognizing the need to curb greenhouse gases? They were among the leaders of the "ignore the warnings campaign" of earlier this decade. If greenhouse emissions created by human activity not a valid explanation, why would two leaders of your conservative party suggest that greenhouse emissions should be curbed? Is that not a rather complicit recognition that human activity and global warming are related? Now, I know I am not Republican enough for a lot of the persons who will comment on this post-site, but I am still a registered Republican, although I am not particularly proud of that admission. Even Republican Arnold Schwarzenegger realizes what you will not admit. Maybe he needs to be unceremonially drummed out of the GOP! Maybe only the pure and just will be left!

I agree with Mr. Omey. It is time the silent majority become the voice of the majority.

I don't understand why right wingnuts can't accept the idea that global warming is a problem that needs our attention and action. is it because Al Gore spoke out about it? I don't understand why this has to be a right wing left wing issue. it is just an issue. and it seems that we need to do something about it. why it has to be a liberal versus conservative issue is beyond me.

Ahhh!!
All the politicians are saying it, so it must be true!
Are you both sure you didn't mean to post those comments on the joke thread?

Have you ever stopped to think about who is disagreeing with human caused global warming?

For the most part it is all the scientists who were well respected in their fields before Al Gore came along with his nonsense.

Global warming started when the last "ice age" ended, was it our fault then? Its been going on for thousands of years, and will go on for thousands of more years. And when the next ICE AGE starts it will be blamed on the "DO NOTHING PEOPLE" or the "DIDN"T DO ENOUGH PEOPLE" ot the "DID TOO MUCH PEOPLE". Let Mother Nature take its course, she has a way of balancing out, sometimes it can result in mass extinction.

John Baake wrote:

Ahhh!!
All the politicians are saying it, so it must be true!
Are you both sure you didn't mean to post those comments on the joke thread?
Have you ever stopped to think about who is disagreeing with human caused global warming?
For the most part it is all the scientists who were well respected in their fields before Al Gore came along with his nonsense.

John, once again you missed the point. The point wasn't that politicians have it right. The point is that even neo-conservative, GOP drenched, card-carryin' right wingers are admitting that the evidence is clear. Several posts have stated that global warming has been occuring for thousands of years. On the average that is true, with a few cooling exceptions. What makes this alarming, unless one chooses to just ignore the data, is that the uptrend in warming continues to spike (go upward) on the graph. This warming trend is not behaving like the previous ones in the past 100,000 years. This is an aberration. A severe exception. I, and any other atmospheric scientist, is not going to convince many of the writers of this little blog post of the truth. While it is fun to banter back and forth, it is not fun to place our world and our society in danger because some people want to protect their business interest at the moment. Again, I liken the ignorance about global warming with the "new earthers", who ignore mountains of evidence and plod on with their little story. The point of my last post was not to tie the credibility of human generated global warming to politicians. Rather, it was to demonstrate that even the dumbest of the dumb politicians can see the writing on the wall.

High Rolls Resident wrote:

I don't understand why right wingnuts can't accept the idea that global warming is a problem that needs our attention and action. is it because Al Gore spoke out about it? I don't understand why this has to be a right wing left wing issue. it is just an issue. and it seems that we need to do something about it. why it has to be a liberal versus conservative issue is beyond me.

This idiot got a Nobel Prize for this. It wasn't even his idea. Rember, when he said he invented the internet.

How do we explain the fact that real numbers show the earth is actually cooling right now?

"Gore has been involved with the development of the Internet since the 1970s, first as a Congressman and later as Senator and Vice-President. Internet pioneers Vint Cerf and Bob Kahn stated in the 2000 article "Al Gore and the Internet", that Gore was "the first political leader to recognize the importance of the Internet and to promote and support its development."[107] His High Performance Computing and Communication Act of 1991[108](often referred to as the Gore Bill) was passed on December 9, 1991 and led to the National Information Infrastructure (NII)[109] which Gore referred to as the "information superhighway."

In a March 9, 1999 interview on CNN's Late Edition with Wolf Blitzer, Gore stated, "During my service in the United States Congress I took the initiative in creating the internet. I took the initiative in moving forward a whole range of initiatives that have proven to be important to our country's economic growth and environmental protection, improvements in our educational system."[110] This statement was often misquoted by media outlets and led to the creation of a widely spread urban legend that Gore claimed to have "invented the Internet."[111]

In response to the controversy, Cerf and Kahn argued that, "We don't think, as some people have argued, that Gore intended to claim he 'invented' the Internet. Moreover, there is no question in our minds that while serving as Senator, Gore's initiatives had a significant and beneficial effect on the still-evolving Internet."[112] "

From: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al_Gore (But can be found thousands of places - the 'internet' hoax was ridiculous then, and now. It was simply never said in that way.)

Isn't disinformation a wonderful thing? As the glaciers recede and/or disappear before our eyes and as the arctic ice sheet shrinks and chunks of the antarctic ice sheet the size of Rhode Island break off, there are people who spew rancid "facts" and make the most misleading and outrageous claims. And, as this category suggests, it is a conservative movement. How sad.