What Does Proposition 8 Mean for the Future of Gay Marriage?

How very sad. We normally think of the struggle for civil rights for all as something that moves slowly forward.

It is sad to see a country that can move forward and backward on the same day.

FYI,
There are challenges within the California court system to Prop 8. See:
http://www.americablog.com/2008/11/lawsuit-fi...
So hopefully it's not impossible for it to be reversed at a state level

What a sad day to see such an achievement of civil rights while California decided to limit others.... and especially considering the number of African Americans who voted for Prop 8.

Wow, that's good news then - I hope it will be reversed at state level. Disturbing that it was passed the same day Obama was elected.

Ya keep fighting and fighting and fighting until they sit down, privately, and tears come to their eyes as they remember the day they laid eyes on you and wish it had never happened.

hopefully it will be overturned in the future. while this is discouraging news, gay rights have still come a long way in the recent past. let's hope that there will be more victories in the near future to offset this huge loss.

Disclaimer: The following movie quote has nothing to do with the content of the article, it just popped into my head after reading the headline.

David St. Hubbins: They said the album cover is a bit sexist.

Nigel Tufnel: Well, so what? What's wrong with being sexy?

David St. Hubbins: Sexist, Nigel.

tmk wrote:

FYI,
There are challenges within the California court system to Prop 8. See:
http://www.americablog.com/2008/11/lawsuit-fi...
So hopefully it's not impossible for it to be reversed at a state level

That information was in the article. See the end of the second to last paragraph. 3rd section.

I have to say I am disappointed in the Gay community. You know Change is not easy for people. You are asking the whole world to change and redefine what Marriage is. How can you ask that of people? You all are asking people to say that what they have been taught all their lives and for the past centuries to change what they feel is correct principles.

I think all this rallying and marching are rediculous if you ask me.

I have to admit I am not gay but I do have alot of gay friends. I don't care what you do or how you do it but come on why is it ok to try to change something so extreme as redefining marriage.

Why down the mormon church for FINALLY saying what they believe. Most the time the mormon church stays very quiet in these type of things. It was not just the mormon church that helped Prop. 8 pass, it was all of the californians. Why not protest against ALL of the californians then.

I have a few gay friends that are going to the extreme is this whole debate and I am starting to wonder if the gay community is not hurting it's own self by all the protest, rally and march.... I think it is extreme and most people do not like extreme stuff like that..

Maybe if you turn the other check and try approach this nonviolently you might get the results your community so desires.

All I am saying is chill... it hard enough for people to have to change what they have always believe let alone having the gay community go nuts about this.

Meekness and being humble goes along way...... if you want change.

It's sobering to know that Californians believe chickens deserve more rights than gay people do. Proposition 2 (essentially providing farm animals with free space to exercise and not be cramped) passed by almost the exact same number of votes (and percent of the voters) as Proposition 8 did.

I also followed that link and found that one of my co-workers contributed multiple times to "yes" on Prop 8. I am not sure how to approach him to thank him for allowing farm animals to have more rights than I do.

Proposition 8 was passed on the same day that Connecticut refused to hold a constitutional convention. Hmm. So you STILL have 2 states in which gay marriage is legal.

concerned wrote:

I have to say I am disappointed in the Gay community. You know Change is not easy for people. You are asking the whole world to change and redefine what Marriage is. How can you ask that of people? You all are asking people to say that what they have been taught all their lives and for the past centuries to change what they feel is correct principles.
I think all this rallying and marching are rediculous if you ask me.
I have to admit I am not gay but I do have alot of gay friends. I don't care what you do or how you do it but come on why is it ok to try to change something so extreme as redefining marriage.
Why down the mormon church for FINALLY saying what they believe. Most the time the mormon church stays very quiet in these type of things. It was not just the mormon church that helped Prop. 8 pass, it was all of the californians. Why not protest against ALL of the californians then.
I have a few gay friends that are going to the extreme is this whole debate and I am starting to wonder if the gay community is not hurting it's own self by all the protest, rally and march.... I think it is extreme and most people do not like extreme stuff like that..
Maybe if you turn the other check and try approach this nonviolently you might get the results your community so desires.
All I am saying is chill... it hard enough for people to have to change what they have always believe let alone having the gay community go nuts about this.
Meekness and being humble goes along way...... if you want change.

Change NEVER occurs when people "chill" and worry about what an inconvenience their rights might be to the majority. This is about equal rights for equal taxes (actually higher taxes in the case of same-sex couples as opposed to married couples filing jointly). It is about what is fair. It isn't about the majorities delicate sensibilities.

Honestly, if the fact that your "friends" are treated as second class citizens doesn't completely outrage you, you are not much of a friend. I am straight too and my heart breaks because these wonderful people have been relegated to second class status. I, unlike you, will fight with my last breath for their right to be treated like the human beings that they are.

You sound very young. I sincerely hope you gain wisdom as you mature and realize the hurtful injustice of your current opinion.

Ken wrote:

It's sobering to know that Californians believe chickens deserve more rights than gay people do. Proposition 2 (essentially providing farm animals with free space to exercise and not be cramped) passed by almost the exact same number of votes (and percent of the voters) as Proposition 8 did.
I also followed that link and found that one of my co-workers contributed multiple times to "yes" on Prop 8. I am not sure how to approach him to thank him for allowing farm animals to have more rights than I do.

I am sure a simple "Thanks for giving the chickens their freedom while denying me mine." will suffice.

That is completely outrageous!!!!!!!! I don't even know where to begin.

verad wrote:

<quoted text>
I am sure a simple "Thanks for giving the chickens their freedom while denying me mine." will suffice.
That is completely outrageous!!!!!!!! I don't even know where to begin.

How about "cluck cluck cluck, buck buck AWK, cluck cluck cluck, COKADOODLEDOO!"?

Actually....The gay community has more rights then my little pinky...:) They have every rights as I do- even more. Most health insurance cover partnerships, there is discrimination laws put in to place for hate crimes agains the gay community, the lifestyle has become so mainstream that most people know a person that is gay and could care less. In fact I work with 3 gay men in my healthcare profession and I could care less. Actually with our insurance plans a person can have a sex change but I can't get lasik surgery for my eye...go figure.:) Should I say that is discrimination?

All I am saying is that if the gay community wants change it will not happen by being ruthless and by protesting violently....

Change does not happen overnight...... and your asking people to redefine their basic beliefs that marriage is sanctioned by god between a man and women. Its not about being second class citizens...In fact I think the white straight male has become that (they have the least amount of rights out of everyone). It about the rights of everyone. So if this had not passed, the rights of 52% of californians would have been waivered.. so if you look at it from the other side either way someones rights are lost....

Last year my son was mandated to go to school and participate in a Gay rights day. It was mandatory, or he got an F. Why is this ok? Why is it ok to teach our kids what we dont' want them to be taught. If this had been the opposite and the gay community had to go the a mandatory Heterosexual day I think the whole community would have been up an arms. My child's liberties where taken away and my right as a parent to object to this teaching where taken because of the mandatory day. Do you really want that?

verad wrote:

<quoted text>
Change NEVER occurs when people "chill" and worry about what an inconvenience their rights might be to the majority. This is about equal rights for equal taxes (actually higher taxes in the case of same-sex couples as opposed to married couples filing jointly). It is about what is fair. It isn't about the majorities delicate sensibilities.
Honestly, if the fact that your "friends" are treated as second class citizens doesn't completely outrage you, you are not much of a friend. I am straight too and my heart breaks because these wonderful people have been relegated to second class status. I, unlike you, will fight with my last breath for their right to be treated like the human beings that they are.
You sound very young. I sincerely hope you gain wisdom as you mature and realize the hurtful injustice of your current opinion.

concerned wrote:

I have to say I am disappointed in the Gay community. You know Change is not easy for people. You are asking the whole world to change and redefine what Marriage is. How can you ask that of people? You all are asking people to say that what they have been taught all their lives and for the past centuries to change what they feel is correct principles.
I think all this rallying and marching are rediculous if you ask me.
I have to admit I am not gay but I do have alot of gay friends. I don't care what you do or how you do it but come on why is it ok to try to change something so extreme as redefining marriage.
Why down the mormon church for FINALLY saying what they believe. Most the time the mormon church stays very quiet in these type of things. It was not just the mormon church that helped Prop. 8 pass, it was all of the californians. Why not protest against ALL of the californians then.
I have a few gay friends that are going to the extreme is this whole debate and I am starting to wonder if the gay community is not hurting it's own self by all the protest, rally and march.... I think it is extreme and most people do not like extreme stuff like that..
Maybe if you turn the other check and try approach this nonviolently you might get the results your community so desires.
All I am saying is chill... it hard enough for people to have to change what they have always believe let alone having the gay community go nuts about this.
Meekness and being humble goes along way...... if you want change.

Exactly! And instead of fighting against true "inequality" behind all this - e.g., absence of specific legal and financial benefits in already existing definitions of civil unions for gay people - the opponents of Prop.8 are playing with the definition of "marriage" (why not come up with a specific definition for their unique same-sex relationships?)

No matter what they say, this issue WILL inevitably touch the school education even if only to prevent discrimination against gay marriages if the definition of "marriage" is extended to same-sex couples. I don't see how this could be avoided.

Advances in civil rights have never happened by "playing nice." Women didn't get the right to vote and to be treated as legally equal by "playing nice." African-Americans didn't get their rights by "playing nice."

What I want to know is why should ANYONE be expected to cater to the sensitivities of bigots? During the struggle for rights for African-Americans, should they have "played nice" in order to avoid upsetting the Klan?

Those who say the struggle for equal legal rights should just "play nice" are showing how ignorant they are of the history of civil rights advances.

I just cannot picture how someone can vote for Barack one second and then vote to deny rights to a group of people the next second. Especially black people. But they did, 70% worth. And it was, of course, religion that prodded them in this direction.

Shame on you. EVERY single day... EVERY DAY... every single gay/lesbian person basically is forced to participate in the heterosexual rights day! EVERY DAY, you ignorant fool.
And it's not equal rights when they're conditional. MOST employers will provide health care for domestic partners - MOST, not all! But All employers who allow health care for dependents will give it to your SPOUSE!
A domestic partnership is like a contract, like a business contract. Why do 52% of Californians have to decide that only they are allowed to be married, that they don't have to sign an insulting business contract with their spouses?
I hate to tell you what, marriage is in no way something God ordains when you bring the government into the picture. The minute you mixed the law with your sacriligious beliefs, you blurred the lines. What ever happened to the separation of church and state?
Fine, if we can't get married, then no one should be able to get married. Let's all have Civil Unions and Religious Marriages. Then all 52% of your klan of ignorant and unnecessarily sheltered and terrified ignorants can keep the precious definition of the word 'Married' to your religious selves. But don't you dare argue that we have the same rights as you do, because we plain and simply don't.
I am very much against imposing the homosexual life on a child in any way. And i agree with you whole heartedly, that as a parent you should have full control over what your child learns. but you are making a huge mistake if you think sheltering them is the answer. Because when they turn 18 and inevitablly enter the real world they will be faced with the challenges of diversity and you will have failed them when they cannot come to terms with what they see in the real world. remember there was a time when parents refused to let their children go to "integrated schools" becaus etheir kids might get the wrong idea that it's ok to interact with the black kids. Well, welcome to America - we've got a black president and you bet it's damn ok to interact with him. An dif you so much as imagine that just because kids might be exposed to the reality that gay couples exist and prefer to get married and remain monogomous and have families of their own that your kids will think it's ok for them to do that too... tell me what's so awful about that? Number 1 - any heterozexual child will not even be enticed by the possibility and # 2 if god forbid your child should turn out to be homosexual, wouldn't you wish to God that they live their life to he fullest extent just like any other heterosexual is allowed? Woudln't you want them to feel normal at school? Would you want YOUR child to be integrated if they were gay?
Think twice next time before you choose to post a borderline bigotted comment.
Peace to you - you will need it when you go to sleep tonight, trying to resolve the conflict in your head about whether or not your kids could turn out gay and what the hell you would do if it should happen.

Truly sad that our country can't come to grips with this issue and grant everyone the right to marry whomever they want.