s SPIRITUAL QUESTIONS FOR REY

rey wrote:

<quoted text>
Ok,Christ is the atoning substitutionary sin bearer. As the Lamb of God, Christ bore the sin of the world.(John 3:16) All the accumulated sins of men were placed upon Him. He is "the Savior of all men, specially of those that believe." 1 Timothy 4:10.
Satan is the orginator responsible for all sins commited. If sin is to be punished at all, Satan cannot escape. His responsibility reachesbeyond that of his personal sins to the sins which he has caused others to commit. This embraces all sin,by whomsoever committed.Did you know that the lost will bear their own sins? It is only fair and just that each sinner bear the punishment of his sins to the extent to which he is guilty too. Satan does not bear their sin as such. They must bear their own sin. The sin for which he will be held responsible is his evil work in tempting them to sin, urging them on, luring them to their ruin. This is often worse than the sin itself. The principle of joint responsibility is illustrated in the sin of our first parents. Satan tempted them, and they fell. Because of Satan's part in the sin, the serpent was cursed; because of Adam and Eve's sin, they were banished from Eden. God did not hold Adam and Eve solely responsible, neither did He excuse them. Satan was guilty; so was man.
As Satan is primarily responsible for the sins of all men, these sins must finally be placed on him and he must bear the punishment due him. This punishment is not expiatory; nor is it substitutionary; neither is it atoning, except in the sense that a criminal atones for his sins by being hanged on the gallows. He simply suffers for his own sins and for his influence in causing others to sin.
Satan's guilt is particularly heinous in the case of professed Christians. No Christian' wishes to sin. He abhors it. But Satan tempts him. A thousand times the man resists, and a thousand times Satan comes back. At last the man yields; he sins. But he soon repents; he asks forgiveness. The sin has been 'recorded in heaven. Now forgiveness is placed against it. The man is happy. He is forgiven. He has placed his sin upon the great Sin Bearer, who willingly takes it upon Himself, pays the penalty, and suffers the punishment due the sinner. Then comes the final judgment. The sin is blotted out. The man's record is clear. But what about Satan's part in causing him to fall? Has that been atoned for? It has not. Satan must pay for it himself with his life. Satan's guilt remains. In the judgment he will be charged with sins which he did not personally commit, but in which he was, nevertheless, a partaker. These sins will be placed upon him, and he must bear his responsibility for them.
Some have mistakenly concluded that if the sins of Israel are finally placed on Satan, he must have some part in the atonement. This is a great error. Satan has no part whatever in the vicarious atonement; the saints are in no way indebted to him; his bearing of sin is in no way related to salvation; his work is evil and only evil.
During the whole service the scapegoat stood tied before the door of the tabernacle, awaiting its doom. When the atonement was finished, the scapegoat was led forward by the high priest, who took all the sins that were not provided for in the sacrificial death of the Lord's goat. Leviticus 16 The goat was lead away like a criminal who was headed for the gallows. Not to save us from our sins.
Thank God for His Son, Jesus the Lord's goat.

Dear rey:

God has given you a gift. Thank you for sharing and I truly hope that you will continue to share with us here at Topix.

His4everFriend

His4everFriend wrote:

<quoted text>
Dear rey:
God has given you a gift. Thank you for sharing and I truly hope that you will continue to share with us here at Topix.
His4everFriend

Hi Friend.

Would you like to reply to post No5? plz

Thanx

Dan

Well these question are gonna take some thought to answer.

<<Lev 16: 10 says HE makes ATONEMENT WITH HIM. How can it be possible for Jesus to make ATONEMENT with him? Satan plays NO partnership in the Atonement>>

I totally agree. Satan plays no part in the atonement. I know that later in verse 20 it states that when Aaron made in end of reconciling the holy place, the tabernacle,.. then Aaron places what ever sins on the goats head. Lev 16:20
The atonment was therefore completed by Aaron when he takes hold of the goat. This shows that the two rituals had to be different. This has to be true because we know Satan will suffer/pay for sins.
It is only fair and just that he bear the punishment of his sins to the extent to which he is guilty. The sin for which he will be held responsible is his evil work in tempting people to sin, urging them on, trying to lure them to ruin.

<<3. Nothing about the scapegoat going to the Gallows or in the FIRE or dying. Agree?>>

Yes i agree. I am glad it shows that the goat isn't burned by fire or killed here because I would be confused. We know the next and final feast was the feast of harvest that correspondes to the second coming-the harvest of the earth. At that time Satan is not destroyed yet either. So for them to kill or burn the goeat at this time would show that it was premature. It shows instead that the goat is led into the wilderness like Satan will be after Christ returns, resurrects the righteous, and takes away His saints to heaven for 1000yrs. Satan is bound in the bottomless pit for a 1000yrs.Rev 20. So the goats death shouldn't be dealt with at this time, just led to the wilderness. The goat not shedding blood is proof that it doesn't make atonement because Lev 17:11 states it is the blood that makes atonement.

<<4. When does Jesus blot out the SINS?>>
Before He retuns
We know Lev 16:13, 17 states that when Aaron was in the holiest place on the day of atonement that no man could enter and it was filled with smoke. So Jesus as High Priest blots the sins of the righteous before He comes because we know that Rev 15:8 refers to smoke filling the temple and no man entering during the time of the 7 plagues. The Israel is clean cause theirs sins have been blotted out.

Judgement is not pertained to the righteous after this only the wicked. There sins have been dealt with. The righteous take a part in judging as the wicked..

<<5. When will Jesus place the redeemed sins on SATAN? Is it just prior to his second coming. Is it days/Weeks or Mths before his second coming?>>

The minute His saints are change/ressurected and they are taken with Christ for the 1000yrs Satan is said to be bound in a place uninhabited. We known From this point up until the time that he bows the knee confessing that Christg is Lord, he is said to be bearing the consequences of all the sins he ersuaded others to commit. He of course is burned to ashes for sins. He doesn't live forever. All sin is eradicated from the universe and notto rise up a second time.

<<6. Jesus paid the punishment for the saints sins at Calvary and Satan pays the penalty again for the saints ACTIONS and for their EVIL THOUGHTS too? correct?>>

But what about Satan's part in causing him to fall? Has that been atoned for? It has not. Satan must pay for it himself with his life. Satan's guilt remains. In the judgment he will be charged with sins which he did not personally commit, but in which he was, nevertheless, a partaker. These sins will be placed upon him, and he must bear his responsibility for them.

<<7. Both goats were equal and without blemish. Agree?>>

yes only in he beginning.

<<9. What if SATAN blows himself up? How will Jesus place the SINS on SATAN?>>

Salvation isn't dependant on Satan paying for his own actions. He will be dead still which is the intended results of God judgement agsinst him.
Maybe him killing himself will vindicate God's righteousness even more.

Been so busy lately..

Well these question are gonna take some thought to answer.

<<Lev 16: 10 says HE makes ATONEMENT WITH HIM. How can it be possible for Jesus to make ATONEMENT with him? Satan plays NO partnership in the Atonement>>

I totally agree. Satan plays no part in the atonement. I know that later in verse 20 it states that when Aaron made in end of reconciling the holy place, the tabernacle,.. then Aaron places what ever sins on the goats head. Lev 16:20
The atonment was therefore completed by Aaron when he takes hold of the goat. This shows that the two rituals had to be different. This has to be true because we know Satan will suffer/pay for sins.
It is only fair and just that he bear the punishment of his sins to the extent to which he is guilty. The sin for which he will be held responsible is his evil work in tempting people to sin, urging them on, trying to lure them to ruin.

<<3. Nothing about the scapegoat going to the Gallows or in the FIRE or dying. Agree?>>

Yes i agree. I am glad it shows that the goat isn't burned by fire or killed here because I would be confused. We know the next and final feast was the feast of harvest that correspondes to the second coming-the harvest of the earth. At that time Satan is not destroyed yet either. So for them to kill or burn the goeat at this time would show that it was premature. It shows instead that the goat is led into the wilderness like Satan will be after Christ returns, resurrects the righteous, and takes away His saints to heaven for 1000yrs. Satan is bound in the bottomless pit for a 1000yrs.Rev 20. So the goats death shouldn't be dealt with at this time, just led to the wilderness. The goat not shedding blood is proof that it doesn't make atonement because Lev 17:11 states it is the blood that makes atonement.

<<4. When does Jesus blot out the SINS?>>
Before He retuns
We know Lev 16:13, 17 states that when Aaron was in the holiest place on the day of atonement that no man could enter and it was filled with smoke. So Jesus as High Priest blots the sins of the righteous before He comes because we know that Rev 15:8 refers to smoke filling the temple and no man entering during the time of the 7 plagues. The Israel is clean cause theirs sins have been blotted out.

Judgement is not pertained to the righteous after this only the wicked. There sins have been dealt with. The righteous take a part in judging as the wicked..

<<5. When will Jesus place the redeemed sins on SATAN? Is it just prior to his second coming. Is it days/Weeks or Mths before his second coming?>>

The minute His saints are change/ressurected and they are taken with Christ for the 1000yrs Satan is said to be bound in a place uninhabited. We known From this point up until the time that he bows the knee confessing that Christg is Lord, he is said to be bearing the consequences of all the sins he ersuaded others to commit. He of course is burned to ashes for sins. He doesn't live forever. All sin is eradicated from the universe and notto rise up a second time.

<<6. Jesus paid the punishment for the saints sins at Calvary and Satan pays the penalty again for the saints ACTIONS and for their EVIL THOUGHTS too? correct?>>

But what about Satan's part in causing him to fall? Has that been atoned for? It has not. Satan must pay for it himself with his life. Satan's guilt remains. In the judgment he will be charged with sins which he did not personally commit, but in which he was, nevertheless, a partaker. These sins will be placed upon him, and he must bear his responsibility for them.

<<7. Both goats were equal and without blemish. Agree?>>

yes only in he beginning.

<<9. What if SATAN blows himself up? How will Jesus place the SINS on SATAN?>>

Salvation isn't dependant on Satan paying for his own actions. He will be dead still which is the intended results of God judgement agsinst him.
Maybe him killing himself will vindicate God's righteousness even more.

Rey.

Are you willing to reply on post No5 on the "FOOD for WORMS" prophecy?

Dan

His4everFriend wrote:

<quoted text>
Dear rey:
God has given you a gift. Thank you for sharing and I truly hope that you will continue to share with us here at Topix.
His4everFriend

Why thank you very much...that is a first being here i appreciate it
rey

rey wrote:

Well these question are gonna take some thought to answer.
<<Lev 16: 10 says HE makes ATONEMENT WITH HIM. How can it be possible for Jesus to make ATONEMENT with him? Satan plays NO partnership in the Atonement>>
I totally agree. Satan plays no part in the atonement. I know that later in verse 20 it states that when Aaron made in end of reconciling the holy place, the tabernacle,.. then Aaron places what ever sins on the goats head. Lev 16:20
The atonment was therefore completed by Aaron when he takes hold of the goat. This shows that the two rituals had to be different. This has to be true because we know Satan will suffer/pay for sins.
It is only fair and just that he bear the punishment of his sins to the extent to which he is guilty. The sin for which he will be held responsible is his evil work in tempting people to sin, urging them on, trying to lure them to ruin.
<<3. Nothing about the scapegoat going to the Gallows or in the FIRE or dying. Agree?>>
Yes i agree. I am glad it shows that the goat isn't burned by fire or killed here because I would be confused. We know the next and final feast was the feast of harvest that correspondes to the second coming-the harvest of the earth. At that time Satan is not destroyed yet either. So for them to kill or burn the goeat at this time would show that it was premature. It shows instead that the goat is led into the wilderness like Satan will be after Christ returns, resurrects the righteous, and takes away His saints to heaven for 1000yrs. Satan is bound in the bottomless pit for a 1000yrs.Rev 20. So the goats death shouldn't be dealt with at this time, just led to the wilderness. The goat not shedding blood is proof that it doesn't make atonement because Lev 17:11 states it is the blood that makes atonement.
<<4. When does Jesus blot out the SINS?>>
Before He retuns
We know Lev 16:13, 17 states that when Aaron was in the holiest place on the day of atonement that no man could enter and it was filled with smoke. So Jesus as High Priest blots the sins of the righteous before He comes because we know that Rev 15:8 refers to smoke filling the temple and no man entering during the time of the 7 plagues. The Israel is clean cause theirs sins have been blotted out.
Judgement is not pertained to the righteous after this only the wicked. There sins have been dealt with. The righteous take a part in judging as the wicked..
<<5. When will Jesus place the redeemed sins on SATAN? Is it just prior to his second coming. Is it days/Weeks or Mths before his second coming?>>
The minute His saints are change/ressurected and they are taken with Christ for the 1000yrs Satan is said to be bound in a place uninhabited. We known From this point up until the time that he bows the knee confessing that Christg is Lord, he is said to be bearing the consequences of all the sins he ersuaded others to commit. He of course is burned to ashes for sins. He doesn't live forever. All sin is eradicated from the universe and notto rise up a second time.
<<6. Jesus paid the punishment for the saints sins at Calvary and Satan pays the penalty again for the saints ACTIONS and for their EVIL THOUGHTS too? correct?>>
But what about Satan's part in causing him to fall? Has that been atoned for? It has not. Satan must pay for it himself with his life. Satan's guilt remains. In the judgment he will be charged with sins which he did not personally commit, but in which he was, nevertheless, a partaker. These sins will be placed upon him, and he must bear his responsibility for them.
<<7. Both goats were equal and without blemish. Agree?>>
yes only in he beginning.
<<9. What if SATAN blows himself up? How will Jesus place the SINS on SATAN?>>
Salvation isn't dependant on Satan paying for his own actions. He will be dead still which is the intended results of God judgement agsinst him.
Maybe him killing himself will vindicate God's righteousness even more.

did u understand danno?

danno did u understand the last comment answering all your questions?

rey wrote:

danno did u understand the last comment answering all your questions?

No I dont agree because of the following:-

1. The scapegoat was still without BLEMISH when the FIRST GOAT WAS KILLED!

2. Theres NO mention thatthe scapegoat is thrown into a lake of FIRE.

3. The SINS of the REDEEMED have already been BLOTTED OUT and Satan is still active and not thrown inyto the lake of fire.

4. Atonement means to be AT ONE WITH GOD!! The SCAPEGOAT is for an ATONEMENT according to Moses in Lev 16: 10! This criteria does not fit SATAN.

5. The SDA sell a book with the word "ATONEMENT" REMOVED from LEV 16: 10 ! They are NOT happy with that word being linked to the SCAPEGOAT ! Why? Because they KNOW that the word "ATONEMENT" means to be AT ONE with GOD!

6. EGW said herself that her jesus BEGAN to BLOT OUT SINS in HEAVEN from 1844!! Are you aware of this?

Can you now explaine what you understand on the "FOOD for WORMS" prophecy by EGW? See post No5 to read her prophecy.

Thanx

Dan

point 7. The scapegoat had NO SINS of his own when the first goat died and the sins were laid on him!

8. When JESUS died SATAN was full of blemish and the sins of the REDEEMED would add to his OWN SINS! The SCAPEGOAT had NO SINS of his own when the sins of the REDDEEEMED were placed on him!

9. Jesus could only carry the WEIGHT of the SINS of the WORLD for a few hours! Is SATAN ABLE to CARRY all his OWN SINS PLUS all the SINS your jesus places on him from the REDEEMED SDA's?

10 The redeemed SINS will destroy SATAN in minutes! But you believe and teach that SATAN will carry all the SINS of the REDEEMED for many years! The REAL JESUS could only manage 3-4 hours!

Dan

<<Atonement means to be AT ONE WITH GOD!! The SCAPEGOAT is for an ATONEMENT according to Moses in Lev 16: 10! This criteria does not fit SATAN>>

i agree. The goat not shedding blood is proof that it doesn't make atonement though because Lev 17:11 states it is the blood that makes atonement.

<<Theres NO mention thatthe scapegoat is thrown into a lake of FIRE.>>

It is inevitable what happens when one was thrown out of the camp. They were in the wilderness. Basically it was a death sentence.

<<. The SINS of the REDEEMED have already been BLOTTED OUT and Satan is still active and not thrown inyto the lake of fire.>>

The sins of all the righteous are blotted out at the second coming that is why all our bodies are changed and we are taken to heaven. Is Satan destroyed here? No, he chained for a thousand years remember? He is still alive yes after the sins of the righteous are blotted out

<<jesus BEGAN to BLOT OUT SINS in HEAVEN from 1844!! Are you aware of this?>>

Yes He starts with the righteous who are asleep from adam all the way down to the last living generation namely the 144000
<<

B. "To the angels and the unfallen worlds the cry, "It is finished," had a deep significance. It was for them as well as for us that THE GREAT WORK OF REDEMPTION HAD BEEN ACCOMPLISHED. They with us share the fruits of Christ's victory" The Desire of Ages, p. 758

can Dan or rey show proof of this from the Holy Bible?

It appears to be blasphemous heresy as I have never read that Jesus died to redeem anyone other than mankind.

CB

rey wrote:

<<Atonement means to be AT ONE WITH GOD!! The SCAPEGOAT is for an ATONEMENT according to Moses in Lev 16: 10! This criteria does not fit SATAN>>
i agree. The goat not shedding blood is proof that it doesn't make atonement though because Lev 17:11 states it is the blood that makes atonement.
<<Theres NO mention thatthe scapegoat is thrown into a lake of FIRE.>>
It is inevitable what happens when one was thrown out of the camp. They were in the wilderness. Basically it was a death sentence.
<<. The SINS of the REDEEMED have already been BLOTTED OUT and Satan is still active and not thrown inyto the lake of fire.>>
The sins of all the righteous are blotted out at the second coming that is why all our bodies are changed and we are taken to heaven. Is Satan destroyed here? No, he chained for a thousand years remember? He is still alive yes after the sins of the righteous are blotted out
<<jesus BEGAN to BLOT OUT SINS in HEAVEN from 1844!! Are you aware of this?>>
Yes He starts with the righteous who are asleep from adam all the way down to the last living generation namely the 144000
<<

Rey.

If Jesus did BLOT OUT SINS from 1844 then how do you xplain your teaching that the SDA jesus places ALL the REDEEMED SINS on Satan's head??

And by what strength does SATAN carry the WEIGHT of all the REDEEMED SINS for a 1,000 yrs when JESUS could only manage 3-4 hours on the cross under the weight of those sins?

If SATAN can carry the SINS of the REDEEMED for Just 24 hours then I REJECT JESUS and ACCEPT SATAN as my LORD & GOD!! Do you understand what I'm saying here?

Dan

<<If Jesus did BLOT OUT SINS from 1844 then how do you xplain your teaching that the SDA jesus places ALL the REDEEMED SINS on Satan's head??>>

He is going through the records of the righteous dead. I'm sure the angels are there to understand more of their faith in Christ to save them as well. Soon He will turn to the living righteous. When all are reviewed then after all there sins that Satan caused them all to do, even though forgiven, will be placed on him. This teaching basically is saying that he will pay for them. He is not atoning them. For without the shedding of blood is no atonement. Satan is in the wilderness bound for a 1000yrs during the judgement of the wicked. Then after he is judged. He burns the longest. I explained what he pays for earlier and how.

rey wrote:

<<If Jesus did BLOT OUT SINS from 1844 then how do you xplain your teaching that the SDA jesus places ALL the REDEEMED SINS on Satan's head??>>
He is going through the records of the righteous dead. I'm sure the angels are there to understand more of their faith in Christ to save them as well. Soon He will turn to the living righteous. When all are reviewed then after all there sins that Satan caused them all to do, even though forgiven, will be placed on him. This teaching basically is saying that he will pay for them. He is not atoning them. For without the shedding of blood is no atonement. Satan is in the wilderness bound for a 1000yrs during the judgement of the wicked. Then after he is judged. He burns the longest. I explained what he pays for earlier and how.

Rey.

Are you aware EGW said her jesus BEGAN to Blot out SINS in 1844?

Will you be making a comment on EGW "FOOD for WORMS" prophecy soon or are you going to continue ignoring this matter?

dan

<<Are you aware EGW said her jesus BEGAN to Blot out SINS in 1844???

yes according to daniel 8:14..Jesus isn't done yet either. Revlation shows when He is done in Rev 15:8 states the same language during the last phases of the antitypical day of atonement during the plagues.

I have no comment on food for worms.

Crazy Baptist wrote:

B. "To the angels and the unfallen worlds the cry, "It is finished," had a deep significance. It was for them as well as for us that THE GREAT WORK OF REDEMPTION HAD BEEN ACCOMPLISHED. They with us share the fruits of Christ's victory" The Desire of Ages, p. 758
can Dan or rey show proof of this from the Holy Bible?
It appears to be blasphemous heresy as I have never read that Jesus died to redeem anyone other than mankind.
CB

Crazy Baptist,
The angels did benefit greatly from the cross of Christ. It was through the cross of calvary that revealed even more the character of Satan. That is how deceptive he was to even angels- he deceived 1/3 of them remember? Did His sacrifice take away angels sins? NO.NO.NO...if that is what you mean by blasphemous heresy.

Some more from the same chapter:

"It was God's purpose to place things on an eternal basis of security, and in the councils of heaven it was
decided that time must be given for Satan to develop the principles which were the foundation of his
system of government. He had claimed that these were superior to God's principles. Time was given for
the working of Satan's principles, that they might be seen by the heavenly universe." "All heaven and the unfallen worlds had been witnesses to the controversy. With what intense interest
did they follow the closing scenes of the conflict."

"Satan saw that his disguise was torn away. His administration was laid open before the unfallen angels
and before the heavenly universe. He had revealed himself as a murderer. By shedding the blood of the
Son of God, he had uprooted himself from the sympathies of the heavenly beings. Henceforth his work was restricted."

"Yet Satan was not then destroyed. The angels did not even then understand all that was involved in the
great controversy. The principles at stake were to be more fully revealed. And for the sake of man,
Satan's existence must be continued. Man as well as angels must see the contrast between the Prince of
light and the prince of darkness. He must choose whom he will serve."

If you want to read the whole account read Desire of Ages, "IT IS FINISHED" chapter.

They only benefitted from it because it revealed the
differences of God's and Satan's character and aims of his kingdom.

rey wrote:

<<Are you aware EGW said her jesus BEGAN to Blot out SINS in 1844???
yes according to daniel 8:14..Jesus isn't done yet either. Revlation shows when He is done in Rev 15:8 states the same language during the last phases of the antitypical day of atonement during the plagues.
I have no comment on food for worms.

Rey.

Dom you accept that your jrsus BEGAN to BLOT OUT SINS in 1844? yes or no?

Do you accept or REJECT EGW Food for Worms prophecy?

<<Rey.

Dom you accept that your jrsus BEGAN to BLOT OUT SINS in 1844? yes or no?>>

No He hasn't started on the living yet.. He is still reviewing all the asleep in Christ.

rey wrote:

<<Rey.
Dom you accept that your jrsus BEGAN to BLOT OUT SINS in 1844? yes or no?>>
No He hasn't started on the living yet.. He is still reviewing all the asleep in Christ.

Rey

EGW said her jesus BEGAN to BLOT OUT SINS in 1844! Are you aware of this statement? Would you REJECT her statement if you read it?

How long have you been an SDA?

Dan