Law and Grace Cannot Coexist

The Old Covenant from Mt Sinai/ Ten Commandments/Ministry of Death/Bondage
verses
The New Covenant / The Law of Christ/ Ministry of the Spirit/Liberty

Two Covenants/ Remember the New is not according to the Old Heb 8

21 Tell me, you who desire to be under the law, do you not hear the law? 22 For it is written that Abraham had two sons: the one by a bondwoman, the other by a freewoman. 23 But he who was of the bondwoman was born according to the flesh, and he of the freewoman through promise, 24 which things are symbolic. For these are the[d] two covenants: the one from Mount Sinai which gives birth to bondage, which is Hagar— 25 for this Hagar is Mount Sinai in Arabia, and corresponds to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children— 26 but the Jerusalem above is free, which is the mother of us all. 27 For it is written:

“ Rejoice, O barren,
You who do not bear!
Break forth and shout,
You who are not in labor!
For the desolate has many more children
Than she who has a husband.”[e]

28 Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are children of promise. 29 But, as he who was born according to the flesh then persecuted him who was born according to the Spirit, even so it is now. 30 Nevertheless what does the Scripture say?“Cast out the bondwoman and her son, for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman.” 31 So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman but of the free.

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However, Gods say to not take this freedom from the Law of MT Sinai
and to sin;

Christian Liberty
1 Stand fast therefore in the liberty by which Christ has made us free, and do not be entangled again with a yoke of bondage.

13 For you, brethren, have been called to liberty; only do not use liberty as an opportunity for the flesh, but through love serve one another. Gal 5

and

25 But he who looks into the perfect law of liberty and continues in it, and is not a forgetful hearer but a doer of the work, this one will be blessed in what he does. James 1

Paul of California, the anti-SDA and antinomian, in full cry. He's back.

Shadrach wrote:

The Old Covenant from Mt Sinai/ Ten Commandments/Ministry of Death/Bondage
verses
The New Covenant / The Law of Christ/ Ministry of the Spirit/Liberty
Two Covenants/ Remember the New is not according to the Old Heb 8
21 Tell me, you who desire to be under the law, do you not hear the law? 22 For it is written that Abraham had two sons: the one by a bondwoman, the other by a freewoman. 23 But he who was of the bondwoman was born according to the flesh, and he of the freewoman through promise, 24 which things are symbolic. For these are the[d] two covenants: the one from Mount Sinai which gives birth to bondage, which is Hagar— 25 for this Hagar is Mount Sinai in Arabia, and corresponds to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children— 26 but the Jerusalem above is free, which is the mother of us all. 27 For it is written:
“ Rejoice, O barren,
You who do not bear!
Break forth and shout,
You who are not in labor!
For the desolate has many more children
Than she who has a husband.”[e]
28 Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are children of promise. 29 But, as he who was born according to the flesh then persecuted him who was born according to the Spirit, even so it is now. 30 Nevertheless what does the Scripture say?“Cast out the bondwoman and her son, for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman.” 31 So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman but of the free.
----------
However, Gods say to not take this freedom from the Law of MT Sinai
and to sin;
Christian Liberty
1 Stand fast therefore in the liberty by which Christ has made us free, and do not be entangled again with a yoke of bondage.
13 For you, brethren, have been called to liberty; only do not use liberty as an opportunity for the flesh, but through love serve one another. Gal 5
and
25 But he who looks into the perfect law of liberty and continues in it, and is not a forgetful hearer but a doer of the work, this one will be blessed in what he does. James 1

The heading suggests that the law has no further use?

Carnarvon wrote:

<quoted text>The heading suggests that the law has no further use?

Yes PofC denys 10 Commandments, you can sin all you want and be saved.

Carnarvon wrote:

<quoted text>The heading suggests that the law has no further use?

Does the heading state the Law was abolished ? No

Read again it without sabbath centric thoughts.

David Koot wrote:

Paul of California, the anti-SDA and antinomian, in full cry. He's back.

Hallelujah - Welcome back!

Shadrach wrote:

<quoted text>
Does the heading state the Law was abolished ? No
Read again it without sabbath centric thoughts.

Well PofC, I see you are back doing the devils work again.

The LAW & GRACE.
It worked the same in the OT as in the NT.
The law is and was the CHARACYTER OF GOD. But not in human thinking.
GRACE is unmerited favour. GOD empowers all converts to obey the law and to UNDERSTAND IT.
Those of the WORLD cannot figure this out now or in the OT. JOHN 14:17 has not changed.
There is a clear division on this subject made by GOD.

Shadrach

Rom 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

God forbids you to teach. You make void the law.

You are teaching a new gospel

Gal 1:8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
1:9 As we said before, so say I now again, If any [man] preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

The everlasting gospel was preached to them (old testament) as well as to us (new testament).

Heb 4:2 For unto us (new testament) was the gospel preached, as well as unto them (old testament): but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard [it].

Heb 13:20 Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant,

The everlasting covenant was ratified on the cross. Not a new gospel.

Gen 9:16 And the bow shall be in the cloud; and I will look upon it, that I may remember the EVERLASTING COVENANT between God and every living creature of ALL FLESH that [is] upon the earth.

First given to Adam and renewed with Noah.

Gen 17:7 And I will establish my covenant between me and thee and thy seed after thee in their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be a God unto thee, and to thy seed after thee.
17:19 And God said, Sarah thy wife shall bear thee a son indeed; and thou shalt call his name Isaac: and I will establish my covenant with him for an everlasting covenant,[and] with his seed after him.

Renewed with Abraham and descendants.

Ps 105:8 He hath remembered his covenant for ever, the word [which] he commanded to a thousand generations.
9 Which [covenant] he made with Abraham, and his oath unto Isaac;
10 And confirmed the same unto Jacob for a law,[and] to Israel [for] an everlasting covenant:

Isa 24:5 The earth also is defiled under the inhabitants thereof; because they have transgressed the laws, changed the ordinance, broken the everlasting covenant.

Isa 56:6 Also the sons of the stranger (Gentile), that join themselves to the LORD, to serve him, and to love the name of the LORD, to be his servants, every one that keepeth the sabbath from polluting it, and taketh hold of my covenant (everlasting covenant);
56:7 Even them will I bring to my holy mountain, and make them joyful in my house of prayer: their burnt offerings and their sacrifices [shall be] accepted upon mine altar; for mine house shall be called an house of prayer for ALL PEOPLE.

The everlasting covenant is for all from Adam to us.“ALL PEOPLE”

Heb 13:20 Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant,

THE BLOOD OF CHRIST IS THE BLOOD OF THE EVERLASTING COVENANT.

Look at the list in Heb 11 of the sample of those in the old testement saved given to us as an example of salvation for us to follow in the new testament.

Heb 12:4 Ye have not yet resisted unto blood, striving against sin.

We are to resist sin (transgression of the 10 commandment law) unto blood.

Heb 12:1 Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset [us], and let us run with patience the race that is set before us,
2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of [our] faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

Doug SDA wrote:

Shadrach
Rom 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.
God forbids you to teach. You make void the law.
You are teaching a new gospel
Gal 1:8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
1:9 As we said before, so say I now again, If any [man] preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.
The everlasting gospel was preached to them (old testament) as well as to us (new testament).
Heb 4:2 For unto us (new testament) was the gospel preached, as well as unto them (old testament): but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard [it].
Heb 13:20 Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant,
The everlasting covenant was ratified on the cross. Not a new gospel.
Gen 9:16 And the bow shall be in the cloud; and I will look upon it, that I may remember the EVERLASTING COVENANT between God and every living creature of ALL FLESH that [is] upon the earth.
First given to Adam and renewed with Noah.
Gen 17:7 And I will establish my covenant between me and thee and thy seed after thee in their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be a God unto thee, and to thy seed after thee.
17:19 And God said, Sarah thy wife shall bear thee a son indeed; and thou shalt call his name Isaac: and I will establish my covenant with him for an everlasting covenant,[and] with his seed after him.
Renewed with Abraham and descendants.
Ps 105:8 He hath remembered his covenant for ever, the word [which] he commanded to a thousand generations.
9 Which [covenant] he made with Abraham, and his oath unto Isaac;
10 And confirmed the same unto Jacob for a law,[and] to Israel [for] an everlasting covenant:
Isa 24:5 The earth also is defiled under the inhabitants thereof; because they have transgressed the laws, changed the ordinance, broken the everlasting covenant.
Isa 56:6 Also the sons of the stranger (Gentile), that join themselves to the LORD, to serve him, and to love the name of the LORD, to be his servants, every one that keepeth the sabbath from polluting it, and taketh hold of my covenant (everlasting covenant);
56:7 Even them will I bring to my holy mountain, and make them joyful in my house of prayer: their burnt offerings and their sacrifices [shall be] accepted upon mine altar; for mine house shall be called an house of prayer for ALL PEOPLE.
The everlasting covenant is for all from Adam to us.“ALL PEOPLE”
Heb 13:20 Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant,
THE BLOOD OF CHRIST IS THE BLOOD OF THE EVERLASTING COVENANT.
Look at the list in Heb 11 of the sample of those in the old testement saved given to us as an example of salvation for us to follow in the new testament.
Heb 12:4 Ye have not yet resisted unto blood, striving against sin.
We are to resist sin (transgression of the 10 commandment law) unto blood.
Heb 12:1 Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset [us], and let us run with patience the race that is set before us,
2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of [our] faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

Doug, how many times have I stated, the Christian is to follow the Law of Christ, the moral laws without condmenation?

Shadrach wrote:

<quoted text>
Doug, how many times have I stated, the Christian is to follow the Law of Christ, the moral laws without condmenation?

Why do you say so, Shadrach? Paul assures us in Heb. 10:28-31
.

Anyone who has rejected Moses’ law dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses.

OF HOW MUCH WORSE PUNISHMENT, do you suppose, will he be thought worthy who has:

1. trampled the Son of God underfoot,
2. counted the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified a common thing, and
3. insulted the Spirit of grace?

For we know Him who said, "Vengeance is Mine, I will repay," says the Lord. And again, "The LORD will judge His people."

IT IS A FEARFUL THING to fall into the hands of The Living God.

But YOU say, "You shall NOT surely be condemned, for God knows you can NEVER keep His commandments, even with His Holy Spirit abiding IN YOU. He has set you an impossible task!"

theCircle wrote:

<quoted text>
Why do you say so, Shadrach? Paul assures us in Heb. 10:28-31
.
<quoted text>
But YOU say, "You shall NOT surely be condemned, for God knows you can NEVER keep His commandments, even with His Holy Spirit abiding IN YOU. He has set you an impossible task!"

Circle,


26 For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, 27 but a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and fiery indignation which will devour the adversaries.

( 26 is about the imposter, and Gods wrath)

28 Anyone who has rejected Moses’ law dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses.

( vs 28, is comparing the rejection of the OT LAW to the rejection
Christ's as his Savior, which is worse

29 Of how much worse punishment, do you suppose, will he be thought worthy who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, counted the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified a common thing, and insulted the Spirit of grace? 30 For we know Him who said,“Vengeance is Mine, I will repay,”[e] says the Lord.[f] And again,“The LORD will judge His people.”[g] 31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.
----------

I have never said what you stated

I have stated; frail humans do not have the capcity to keep all the commandemnts perfectly, per scripture,only Jesus did( God tells us this)

Even under the Law of Christ and with the help of the Holy Spirit
no one can be sinless. Virtually impossible. We will not become incorruptible till we are changed 1 Cor 15:54

This is why this scripture exists 1 Cor 15:54

Shadrach wrote:

<quoted text>
Circle,
26 For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, 27 but a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and fiery indignation which will devour the adversaries.
( 26 is about the imposter, and Gods wrath)
28 Anyone who has rejected Moses’ law dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses.
( vs 28, is comparing the rejection of the OT LAW to the rejection
Christ's as his Savior, which is worse
29 Of how much worse punishment, do you suppose, will he be thought worthy who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, counted the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified a common thing, and insulted the Spirit of grace? 30 For we know Him who said,“Vengeance is Mine, I will repay,”[e] says the Lord.[f] And again,“The LORD will judge His people.”[g] 31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.
----------
I have never said what you stated
I have stated; frail humans do not have the capcity to keep all the commandemnts perfectly, per scripture,only Jesus did( God tells us this)
Even under the Law of Christ and with the help of the Holy Spirit
no one can be sinless. Virtually impossible. We will not become incorruptible till we are changed 1 Cor 15:54
This is why this scripture exists 1 Cor 15:54

See now? You quote Paul about the grave warning he gives against WILLFUL SIN. And he tells you who is the one who is a WILLFUL SINNER: he who has:

1. trampled the Son of God underfoot,
2. counted the blood of the covenant BY WHICH HE WAS SANCTIFIED a common thing, and
3. insulted the Spirit of grace.

Indeed! Christ died for your sins. You came to believe that. YOU WERE SANCTIFIED. This is not about "impostors", unless you're one.

Why are you still sinning? Why do you grieve the Holy Spirit away by your thoughts and acts? He was given to you to help you to overcome. Why aren't you overcoming?

Why?????????? And you say to others that they NEED NOT WORRY too much: we all are in the same boat. Something's wrong, something's definitely wrong.

Very well said Circle.

But PofC will not listen [shadrach]

birdman wrote:

Very well said Circle.
But PofC will not listen [shadrach]

Thank you for the info, BM. I will not say anymore, I guess.

theCircle wrote:

<quoted text>
See now? You quote Paul about the grave warning he gives against WILLFUL SIN. And he tells you who is the one who is a WILLFUL SINNER: he who has:
1. trampled the Son of God underfoot,
2. counted the blood of the covenant BY WHICH HE WAS SANCTIFIED a common thing, and
3. insulted the Spirit of grace.
Indeed! Christ died for your sins. You came to believe that. YOU WERE SANCTIFIED. This is not about "impostors", unless you're one.
Why are you still sinning? Why do you grieve the Holy Spirit away by your thoughts and acts? He was given to you to help you to overcome. Why aren't you overcoming?
Why?????????? And you say to others that they NEED NOT WORRY too much: we all are in the same boat. Something's wrong, something's definitely wrong.

Circle,

What do these scripture mean?

Our Final Victory

50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; nor does corruption inherit incorruption. 51 Behold, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed— 52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. 1Cor 15

Shadrach wrote:

<quoted text>
Circle,
What do these scripture mean?
Our Final Victory
50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; nor does corruption inherit incorruption. 51 Behold, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed— 52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. 1Cor 15

It refers to the hope of our resurrection when some doubted saying, "How are the dead raised up. And with what body do they come?" (1 Cor. 15:35)

Paul is explaining that when Adam and Eve fell, their bodies became subject to death because of their sin; and we all have inherited their bodies. But Christ will set us free when He comes and changes our bodies from the natural to the spiritual.

Then, having overcome through faith, we will no longer die. And so Paul concludes, "In the hope of that day: be perfect, even as your heavenly Father is perfect." (1 Cor. 15:58)

theCircle wrote:

Then, having overcome through faith, we will no longer die. And so Paul concludes, "In the hope of that day: be perfect, even as your heavenly Father is perfect." (1 Cor. 15:58)

Psalms 219 THE LAW OF THE LORD IS PERFECT CONVERTING THE SOUL.
Is your faith up to being EMPOWERED by GOD ?

Psalms 19 for real. sorry a typo.