"Godmakers"

BONNYOSHEA wrote:

<quoted text>church fathers ??? what does the bible say about it becky ???? and you accused me of repeating what my pastor told me to say ???? come on girl,dump this copy and paste and church father said on page two and three ???????? dont you have any thoughts of your own ??? how can you let yourself be decieved like this ??? you have a chain around your neck and you are being led by the church fathers down a garden path becky........ and that path leads down a hill you dont want to go down ! unbelievable !

You again. Do you even know who the Church Fathers are? I have ran into many Christians who do not even know how they got their Bible. They have the mistaken belief that it came to them intact down through the ages much the same way they have it now. Not so. Nor do they understand the history or the context of the Ancient Christian Church. Not long after the Council of Nicean the Church Fathers met in Nicean to debate which books were to be gathered from around the Christian world as many were using different sets of books with some in common. The debates were heated as to which books should be part of the connon. This was about 350 years after Christ. The Church Fathers are those men who lived at this time and associated with either the orginional 12 Apostles or the Apostalic Fathers, those who had been directly taught by Christ's Apostles. So if you think it is the LDS Church Fathers that are being quoted about theosis you are very uninformed. They are the ones who gave you your Bible in the form you now have it. They are the Saints and Bishops in the Ancient times and what they said about theosis is very interesting in light of what the Mormons believe. So...now you have to ask your self who is more line and true to teachings of the ancient Christian Christian Church?

Hannah Rebekah wrote:

<quoted text>
It obvious you didn't read all the Church Fathers on pages 2 and 3 who say differently. Take a chance and read this thread starting on page 1 to here and I think you will see things differently...you may still choose to not believe it but you will things in a whole different way and how it just may be Biblical. Good luck with your studies...

No becky I haven't read the church fathers page two and three....... and I am not going to because I want the real thing........ that is found in the bible......the bible is the foundation of christianity,not the church fathers book !!! the bible says many false prophets will try to lead people away........ now i see how they are doing it........ when the fathers book becomes more important than the bible..........we are in trouble !! Be grounded in the word of God becky.......the HOLY BIBLE !

Like I said before, when you state the things you do you make others want to know what is being talked about. Do you know how many people are now going to go back to page 1 of this thread and read all six pages so they will know for themselves what is being talked about here and what theosis is all about. By the way...theosis is a Biblical doctrine and if you had read this thread you would have found that Martin Luther taught it....since it is from the Bible. He is not the only spiritual leader who taught it...

BONNYOSHEA wrote:

<quoted text>No becky I haven't read the church fathers page two and three....... and I am not going to because I want the real thing........ that is found in the bible......the bible is the foundation of christianity,not the church fathers book !!! the bible says many false prophets will try to lead people away........ now i see how they are doing it........ when the fathers book becomes more important than the bible..........we are in trouble !! Be grounded in the word of God becky.......the HOLY BIBLE !

Sir you are very much uninformed...the Church Fathers gave you your Bible....and now you are saying they are false prophets that will lead you astray. If that is the case the books of Bible are not important because the Church Fathers deemed them so to cannonize them as the Bible. You really don't know anything...do you?

When the church fathers book becomes your Bible you should know that you are deceived,,,,,,,, the Holy Bible is our instruction book,not some church propaganda book made up by the mormon hierarchy

Are you really that dense or do you just not have good comprehension skills. If that is the case anything you say is suspect as you do not understand your Bible the history of where it came from as a cannonized book.
The Church Fathers were never Mormons nor were they ever in their hierachy. The Church Fathers lived before the Protestant reformation as well. They lived not long after Christ's day. What is so hard for you to comprehend that?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Church_Fathers
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apostolic_Father...

Gods word ,the bible is the only book we need to use as our source..........church fathers.........no..........bo ok of mormon.........no.......... the bible and only the bible....the mormon damage control unit is gearing up for a battle,that they lost when Jesus died on the cross !

Which Bible are you talking about the one before the Reformation or the one after the Reformation when Martin Luther took seven books from it? Those snicky Christians who keep changing the Bible...

The God inspired Book,The Holy Bible is the book all people who want to follow God should read...Not church printouts,not mormon church father book..........only the Holy Bible.... this is the foundation of our faith !!!

The LDS foundation of our faith is Christ not a book like you!!

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was with God in the beginning. Through Him all things were made. John 1:1-3

And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth. John 1:14

God demonstrated His love by sending His promised Son, the Savior and Messiah, Jesus Christ, and allowing Him to be crucified. God paid for our sins Himself. The Lord is good, just and merciful beyond our understanding.

"For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believes in Him shall not perish but have everlasting life". John 3:16

Seek God now. Humbly ask Him to forgive you of your sins. Jesus Christ paid the full price for sin on a Roman cross almost 2000 years ago. Seek His free gift of forgiveness and unending love.

Jesus Christ said: "Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you. For everyone who asks receives; he who seeks finds; and to him who knocks, the door will be opened." Matthew 7:7,8

You were right, I did read the whole thread because of this conversation. I never learned any of this from my minister. I should say ex-minister. I got tired of the hate he spewed against other religions expecially the Mormons. Now that 'The Godmakers' is explained it makes a lot of sense. I will have to study more on this. Thank you.

The Church Fathers did not all canonize the Bible as non-Mormon version states. To assume this is wrong they were not at all of the Eccumenical Councils. No they did not live that long, and many were captive of the false doctrines. Mormons do not adhere to these councils, thus ignore Canon and the Books of the New Testament.

a cult almost always diminishes the authority of the Bible,much like the mormon church does... I believe the description is like this........ we believe that the bible is Of God if it is properly translated..... which means If it does not line up with their false doctrines or goes against the book of mormon,then it has not been translated properly..........Jehovah witnesses.........same story....change a few word in the bible and you have a new cult.....Mormons have their own bible and so do the Jehovah witnesses ..........these are just a few similarities...

BONNYOSHEA wrote:

a cult almost always diminishes the authority of the Bible,much like the mormon church does... I believe the description is like this........ we believe that the bible is Of God if it is properly translated..... which means If it does not line up with their false doctrines or goes against the book of mormon,then it has not been translated properly..........Jehovah witnesses.........same story....change a few word in the bible and you have a new cult.....Mormons have their own bible and so do the Jehovah witnesses ..........these are just a few similarities...

You are right. ABSOLUTELY right. Everyone should prefer things like a worldwide flood, and a man who came back from the dead and healed the dead but have no other archological or historical evidence outside the bible. THATS the stuff everyone should believe in.

Rock on, youre identifying all the people who do not believe like you. Jesus is so proud of you. Thats the essence of the bible, in a nutshell. Not that do gooder stuff. You're on top now bonny!

MrZip wrote:

<quoted text>
You are right. ABSOLUTELY right. Everyone should prefer things like a worldwide flood, and a man who came back from the dead and healed the dead but have no other archological or historical evidence outside the bible. THATS the stuff everyone should believe in.
Rock on, youre identifying all the people who do not believe like you. Jesus is so proud of you. Thats the essence of the bible, in a nutshell. Not that do gooder stuff. You're on top now bonny!

You have added to the bible,like you were told not to at the end of the bible...... You have implied that the bible is not totally right........ You have changed the gospel into something that will not save.......... in a nutshell you should scrap every book that isnt the bible and then study that book like your life depends on it !!! and by the way your life does depend on it.......... eternal life that is !

BONNYOSHEA wrote:

<quoted text>You have added to the bible,like you were told not to at the end of the bible...... You have implied that the bible is not totally right........ You have changed the gospel into something that will not save.......... in a nutshell you should scrap every book that isnt the bible and then study that book like your life depends on it !!! and by the way your life does depend on it.......... eternal life that is !

I have? Im not even a christian, a mormon, or religious.

I just understand it better than you do.

I've read the bible cover to cover more than a few times. Its no wonder that you're all confused. It's not very specific. You're all interpreting and calling yourself king of the hill, especially YOU.

Your god doesnt need little ol' you to defend his word Bonny. He wants you to calm down, and be nice.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/theosis

1800 years before Joseph Smith preached it

Great Thread!

God Makers in Early Christianity: Could We Make A Movie Too? From Art Works, & Early Christian Writings: Part 1

I've made a number of small documentaries on You Tube on early Christianity, & could do an extensive one on deification in early Christianity.

http://www.youtube.com/profile_videos...

Anti-Mormon "Christians" often claim that Mormonism is "unbiblical" & not of "historic biblical Christianity." However, Mormons cite from the same scriptures that the early Christians cite in defense of their own versions of deification, becoming gods. Keep in mind, however, that as the centuries went by, the doctrine of how the early to later Christians viewed Christ, the Father & Godhead, or Trinity to be like; also influenced the different versions of deification that developed in the different branches of historic Christianity. The early Christians cite also from “scriptures” that are now missing, or not included in present bibles too.

BIBLICAL PASSAGES USED BY EARLY TO LATER CHRISTIANS: Psalm 81-2 was a passage that some of the early to later Christians made reference to in order to show from the scriptures that their own particular versions and interpretations of deification was based on the scriptures. "I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High." Christ cites this passage in defense of his claim to being divine,(John 10:30-39). Thus, He may have set an example which some of the earliest to later Christians may have followed when they made reference to what is now Psalm 82. Some of the Jews of Christ's time could not accept Christ's divine Godhood for to them He was just a man claiming divine rank. Christ reminded them that the concept was in their law. "Is it not written in your law, I said Ye are gods?" Perhaps this concept may have been suppressed or ignored in later centuries during the times of apostasy in ancient Israel. So that by the time of Christ it was a concept that was not accepted by many of the Jews, though there may have been some who accepted the concept. Some of the early to later Christians who made reference to Psalms 81-2 as scriptural proof texts in support of their own particular versions of the doctrine of deification were:

Part 2: God Makers in Early Christianity: Could We Make A Movie Too? From Art Works, & Early Christian Writings:
1. Justin Martyr, 110-165 A.D.
2. Irenæus, 120-202 A.D.
3. Clement of Alexandria, 153-193-217 A.D.](The Ante-Nicene Fathers = TANT 2:206, 215, 374, & 437.
4. Tertullian 145-220 A.D. TANF 3:480 & 608.
5. Origen of Alexandria, 185-230-254 A.D.TANF 4:509.
6. Thascius Cyprian, bishop of Carthage, 200-258 A.D., TANF 5:263-4 & 518.
7. Novatian, a Roman Presbyter, 210-280 A.D. TANF 5:631.
8. Athanasius, Bishop of Alexandria, 298-373 A.D., The Nicene & Post-Nicene Fathers = TN&PNF 4: pp. lxxxv, lxxxvii, & 329, Discourse Against The Arians I:38-39.
9. S. Cyril, Archbishop of Jerusalem, 318-386 A.D., TN&PNF 7:i, xi, 2.
10. St. Jerome, 345-420 A.D. The Homilies of St. Jerome, Pub. The Catholic Un. Press, Wash. DC, 1964, p.106-7 & 353.
11. St. Augustine of Hippo, 354-430 A.D. Deification: The Content Of Athanasian Soteriology by Keith Edward Norman,(Dept. of Rel. Duke Un.), thesis for degree of Doctor of Philosophy, 1980, p.241-2, & note 1 on p.214, Ennar. in Ps. 49.2.

Christ prayed that we would become perfect & one with Him & the Father. "Sanctify them through thy truth...& for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth." "Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word; that they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me. And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them: that they may be one, even as we are one: I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me. Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world." John 17:17-24.

If we are to become one with Christ, & the Father, would we not also become divine? Would we not also be glorified with the same type of glory? Christ said: "And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them: that they may be one even as we are one...that they may be made perfect in one..." (Jn.17:22 & 23).

Irenaeus, late 2nd-early 3rd cent., used John 17:24 to scripturally point out that the disciples would also be glorified. TANF 1:478-9.

Origen A.D. 185-230-254 used portions of Christ's prayer in support of the doctrine of perfection & deification. TANF 4:344-5, Origen De Principiis, book 3, chap. 6.

This was what Christ hoped for when he said: "Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect." Matt.5:48. Origen used this passage in defense of deification. TANF 4:509, Origen Against Celsus, book 4, chap.29.