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“By grace you have been saved”

Since: May 09

Dunbar, UK

#1 Apr 11, 2012
John 14:14 according to Jehovah’s Witnesses’ Kingdom Interlinear Translation reads:“If ever anything you should ask me in the name of me this I shall do.”

If the New World Translation is a translation of Westcott & Hort, as they claim, then it should say,“If you ask me anything in my name I will do it.”

Here Jesus is teaching his disciples to pray to Him and to expect answers from Him.(True, in other places He teaches them to pray to His Father and to expect answers from His Father, but here He teaches them to pray to Himself and to expect answers from Himself.)

It would appear that the early Christians followed this teaching because they became known as those “who everywhere are calling upon the name of our Lord, Jesus Christ (1 Corinthians 1:2).”

Was the NWT translator careless, or was he trying to hide something?

If NWT is correct and John did not originally record the word “me” found in Westcott & Hort, then these facts remain:

1) The Watchtower Society said they were translating Westcott & Hort, but they did not, and

2) The Watchtower Society promised to give reasons in a footnote if they varied from Westcott & Hort, but they did not.

Vital to all this is the fact that the word “me” appears in the Bodmer Papyrus 66, one of the oldest New Testament manuscripts known to exist and the very earliest known copy of the Gospel of John. See:“The Bodmer Papyrus of the Gospel of John”; J N Birdsall; London; 1960
Right on

Tørring, Denmark

#2 Apr 11, 2012
If Jesus and JEHOvah are the same, what difference does it make who you are praying to?....

“By grace you have been saved”

Since: May 09

Dunbar, UK

#3 Apr 11, 2012
Right on wrote:
If Jesus and JEHOvah are the same, what difference does it make who you are praying to?....
Jehovah God the Father, and the Son of God, Jesus Christ, are not one and the same person.

But that is not the issue here being discussed. So no distractions from the subject matter please.

The issue here is why the Watchtower Society did not use their very own Interlinear translation in the reading of John 14:14?

The Kingdom Interlinear Translation reads:“If ever anything you should ask ME in the name of me this I shall do.”

“The proof is in the pudding!”

Since: Aug 09

Location hidden

#4 Apr 11, 2012
(John 14:14) 14 If YOU ask anything in my name, I will do it.

This rendition of the scripture is in harmony with John 15:16 and 16:23. Some manuscripts say "me", some don't. We must harmonize it with the rest of scripture without bias.

(John 15:16) 16 YOU did not choose me, but I chose YOU, and I appointed YOU to go on and keep bearing fruit and that YOUR fruit should remain; in order that no matter what YOU ask the Father in my name he might give it to YOU.

(John 16:23) 23 And in that day YOU will ask me no question at all. Most truly I say to YOU, If YOU ask the Father for anything he will give it to YOU in my name.

“The proof is in the pudding!”

Since: Aug 09

Location hidden

#5 Apr 11, 2012
(1 Corinthians 1:2) to the congregation of God that is in Corinth, to YOU who have been sanctified in union with Christ Jesus, called to be holy ones, together with all who everywhere are calling upon the name of our Lord, Jesus Christ, their Lord and ours:

To call upon the name does not neccessarily mean to pray to. In the greek language it can mean something else other than prayer. To profess Jesus is the Christ and to hope in him is a way to call upon him.

“The proof is in the pudding!”

Since: Aug 09

Location hidden

#6 Apr 11, 2012
This is the footnote provided:

*** Rbi8 John 14:14 ***

“Ask,” ADIt and in agreement with 15:16 and 16:23; P66אBWVgSyh,p,“ask me.”
little lamb

Australia

#7 Apr 11, 2012
Duh-boy wrote:
(John 14:14) 14 If YOU ask anything in my name, I will do it.
This rendition of the scripture is in harmony with John 15:16 and 16:23. Some manuscripts say "me", some don't. We must harmonize it with the rest of scripture without bias.
(John 15:16) 16 YOU did not choose me, but I chose YOU, and I appointed YOU to go on and keep bearing fruit and that YOUR fruit should remain; in order that no matter what YOU ask the Father in my name he might give it to YOU.
(John 16:23) 23 And in that day YOU will ask me no question at all. Most truly I say to YOU, If YOU ask the Father for anything he will give it to YOU in my name.
Good post...I agree..Jesus taught us in the model prayer to address our prayer " Our Father in heaven" can trust his teachings..

“the Word was God”

Since: Jul 11

Ashland, OH

#8 Apr 11, 2012
Stanley Walker wrote:
Can you pray to Jesus?
Of course. The early Christians not only prayed to Jesus but they also worshiped Him.

Since: Nov 07

Location hidden

#9 Apr 11, 2012
Kingdom Interlinear Translation says:
JOHN 14:14:“If ever anything you should ask me in the name of me this I shall do.”
But yet the NWT says:
JOHN 14:14:“If You ask anything in my name, I will do it.”
Doesn't make sense. Are they being bias?

“The proof is in the pudding!”

Since: Aug 09

Location hidden

#10 Apr 11, 2012
Stanley Walker wrote:
<quoted text>
Jehovah God the Father, and the Son of God, Jesus Christ, are not one and the same person.
But that is not the issue here being discussed. So no distractions from the subject matter please.
The issue here is why the Watchtower Society did not use their very own Interlinear translation in the reading of John 14:14?
The Kingdom Interlinear Translation reads:“If ever anything you should ask ME in the name of me this I shall do.”
If Jesus is not Jehovah, but they are both God, and you address some prayers to Jesus, then some prayers to Jehovah, you are praying to two Gods!

How many people here pray sometimes to Jesus and sometimes To Jehovah? When you pray to Jesus are you also praying to Jehovah and vice versa?

How many people here never pray to the Father and only pray to the Son?

Since: Nov 07

Location hidden

#11 Apr 11, 2012
Duh-boy wrote:
<quoted text>
If Jesus is not Jehovah, but they are both God, and you address some prayers to Jesus, then some prayers to Jehovah, you are praying to two Gods!
How many people here pray sometimes to Jesus and sometimes To Jehovah? When you pray to Jesus are you also praying to Jehovah and vice versa?
How many people here never pray to the Father and only pray to the Son?
Duhboy,
We pray to Jesus because we believe Jesus is God, so therefore we are not praying to "two Gods".
Cult Defenders are Liars

Lexington, KY

#12 Apr 11, 2012
hollieberry wrote:
Kingdom Interlinear Translation says:
JOHN 14:14:“If ever anything you should ask me in the name of me this I shall do.”
But yet the NWT says:
JOHN 14:14:“If You ask anything in my name, I will do it.”
Doesn't make sense. Are they being bias?
YES!

The NWT was written to prop up the false doctrines of Satan's cult, the jehovah's witnesses.
Cult Defenders are Liars

Lexington, KY

#13 Apr 11, 2012
Once the spurious addition of the word jehovah is removed from the New Testament it is very clear that;

Jesus is the name borne witness to, not the fake, fabricated name jehovah.

Acts 9:15 "But the Lord said to him: "Be on your way, because this man is a chosen vessel to me to bear my name to the nations as well as to kings and the sons of Israel."

Acts 1:8 "YOU will be witnesses of me (Jesus) both in Jerusalem and in all Ju·de´a and Sa·mar´i·a and to the most distant part of the earth."

Jesus is the name used to expel demons, not the fake, fabricated jehovah.

Mark 9:38-39 "John said to him: "Teacher, we saw a certain man expelling demons by the use of your name and we tried to prevent him, because he was not accompanying us." But Jesus said: "Do not try to prevent him, for there is no one that will do a powerful work on the basis of my name that will quickly be able to revile me;"

Jesus is the subject of the kingdom good news, not the fake, fabricated jehovah.

Galatians 1:7 "But it is not another; only there are certain ones who are causing YOU trouble and wanting to pervert the good news about the Christ."

Jesus name invokes persecution, yet jehovah's witnesses falsely claim their persecution in the Name of Jehovah fulfills prophecy. More proof that jehovah's witnesses preach lie!

Matthew 24:9 "Then people will deliver YOU up to tribulation and will kill YOU, and YOU will be objects of hatred by all the nations on account of my name."

Jesus is the means of salvation, not the fake, fabricated jehovah.

Acts 4:12 "Furthermore, there is no salvation in anyone else, for there is not another name under heaven that has been given among men by which we must get saved."

As their name implies, Jehovah's Witnesses predominant focus is on preaching about the fake, fabricated jehovah while the message (gospel) of the New Testament was to be witnesses of Jesus.

“The proof is in the pudding!”

Since: Aug 09

Location hidden

#14 Apr 11, 2012
hollieberry wrote:
<quoted text>Duhboy,
We pray to Jesus because we believe Jesus is God, so therefore we are not praying to "two Gods".
Do you also pray to the Father? Don't you also believe he is God, but the Father is not Jesus?
CHURCH MOUSE

Jacksonville, FL

#15 Apr 11, 2012
THERE IS THE FATHER, THE SON AND THE HOLY GHOST.
THEY ARE ALL GOD. ITS SORT OF LIKE THE EGG.
THERE IS THE YOLK, THE WHITE, AND THE SHELL, BUT THEY ARE STILL 1 EGG.

Since: Nov 07

Location hidden

#16 Apr 11, 2012
Duh-boy wrote:
<quoted text>
Do you also pray to the Father? Don't you also believe he is God, but the Father is not Jesus?
God is God. Jesus is Jesus. Jesus is not the Father. Are you with me so far?...

Now I will ask you, do you believe that a human son is less human than his father?

No, right?

Then, I ask...how can Jesus as God’s Son be less God than His Father is God?

Just as a son is no more, no less “human” than his father, so Jesus as God’s Son is no more, no less “God” than his Father is “God.” This is why the Jews endeavored to stone Jesus for blasphemy. They understood Jesus’ claim to be the “Son of God” as a claim that made Him “equal” in nature to the one and only true God (See John 5:18; 19:7; c.f., Leviticus 24:16). This is also why Jesus called the Father His “God” at John 20:17. His Father would always be His “God,” just as our human fathers will always be our “human” ancestors.

“The proof is in the pudding!”

Since: Aug 09

Location hidden

#17 Apr 11, 2012
hollieberry wrote:
<quoted text>God is God. Jesus is Jesus. Jesus is not the Father. Are you with me so far?...
Now I will ask you, do you believe that a human son is less human than his father?
No, right?
Then, I ask...how can Jesus as God’s Son be less God than His Father is God?
Just as a son is no more, no less “human” than his father, so Jesus as God’s Son is no more, no less “God” than his Father is “God.” This is why the Jews endeavored to stone Jesus for blasphemy. They understood Jesus’ claim to be the “Son of God” as a claim that made Him “equal” in nature to the one and only true God (See John 5:18; 19:7; c.f., Leviticus 24:16). This is also why Jesus called the Father His “God” at John 20:17. His Father would always be His “God,” just as our human fathers will always be our “human” ancestors.
You did not answer my question regarding prayer.

Since: Nov 07

Location hidden

#18 Apr 11, 2012
Duh-boy wrote:
<quoted text>
Do you also pray to the Father? Don't you also believe he is God, but the Father is not Jesus?
Yes, I pray to the Father...answered.
Yes, I believe the Father is God...answered.
No, the Father is not Jesus...answered.

;)

“The proof is in the pudding!”

Since: Aug 09

Location hidden

#19 Apr 11, 2012
hollieberry wrote:
<quoted text>God is God. Jesus is Jesus. Jesus is not the Father. Are you with me so far?...
Now I will ask you, do you believe that a human son is less human than his father?
No, right?
Then, I ask...how can Jesus as God’s Son be less God than His Father is God?
Just as a son is no more, no less “human” than his father, so Jesus as God’s Son is no more, no less “God” than his Father is “God.” This is why the Jews endeavored to stone Jesus for blasphemy. They understood Jesus’ claim to be the “Son of God” as a claim that made Him “equal” in nature to the one and only true God (See John 5:18; 19:7; c.f., Leviticus 24:16). This is also why Jesus called the Father His “God” at John 20:17. His Father would always be His “God,” just as our human fathers will always be our “human” ancestors.
To answer your question, it's quite simple. The Father will never be Son to the Son, He will always be the Father to the Son. The Father will always have more power and more authority than the Son. The Son never does his own will, he only does the will of his Father. In this way Jehovah is Almighty God, having no equal in power an authority, even though the Son is incorruptible, immortal just like his Father and also deserves power and authority, but only the power and authority that the Father allows the Son to have.

Jesus :(John 5:30) I cannot do a single thing of my own initiative; just as I hear, I judge; and the judgment that I render is righteous, because I seek, not my own will, but the will of him that sent me.

Jesus authority given to him:(Matthew 28:18). . .Jesus approached and spoke to them, saying:“All authority has been given me in heaven and on the earth. . .

Of course with the exception of not having authority over his own Father:

(1 Corinthians 15:27, 28). . .For [God]“subjected all things under his feet.” But when he says that ‘all things have been subjected,’ it is evident that it is with the exception of the one who subjected all things to him. 28 But when all things will have been subjected to him, then the Son himself will also subject himself to the One who subjected all things to him, that God may be all things to everyone.

“The proof is in the pudding!”

Since: Aug 09

Location hidden

#20 Apr 11, 2012
hollieberry wrote:
<quoted text>Yes, I pray to the Father...answered.
Yes, I believe the Father is God...answered.
No, the Father is not Jesus...answered.
;)
So you pray to the Father and to Jesus on seperate occasions, if they are not the same God that is two Gods you pray to unless you have further explanation.

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