jesus is human!

bmz,

"We can therefore clearly see that Matthew did not tell the truth, instead he added something extra on his own and this amounts to deliberate forgery."

Luke and Matthew used Mark as a starting point.

Matthew may have had a better memory and/or source than Mark, but why should it matter to you in any case? Aren't all four Gospels forgeries, with John's being the most egregious?

Here's the link to the Psalm 110 commentary above: http://www.nccbuscc.org/nab/bible/psalms/psal...

Aisha wrote:

bmz,
"We can therefore clearly see that Matthew did not tell the truth, instead he added something extra on his own and this amounts to deliberate forgery."
Luke and Matthew used Mark as a starting point.
Matthew may have had a better memory and/or source than Mark, but why should it matter to you in any case? Aren't all four Gospels forgeries, with John's being the most egregious?

We are not discussing how old were they.

The point is that Mark only wrote that Peter replied: "You are the Christ." In other words, Peter just said,"You are the Messiah."

That in essence is the substance. Adding "the Son of the living God" is irrelevant because not a single Jew, including Jesus and his disciples believed that the living God had a son.

I can accept that Peter confirmed Jesus as messiah.

Now, let us see what Luke says, keeping in mind he also copied mostly from MARK:

[Luke 9:Peter's Confession of Christ

18Once when Jesus was praying in private and his disciples were with him, he asked them, "Who do the crowds say I am?"

19They replied, "Some say John the Baptist; others say Elijah; and still others, that one of the prophets of long ago has come back to life."

20"But what about you?" he asked. "Who do you say I am?" Peter answered, "The Christ of God."]

This clearly tells us that eleven out of teh twelve disciples did not know the answer and only Peter knew that he was messiah.

Note that Peter in Luke 9:20 only says, "The Christ of God." and again there is no mention of any Son of the living God.

This evidence clearly shows that Peter only confirmed Jesus as the messiah, not the son of the living God. Period

bmz,

Only Matthew's account has Jesus remarking that flesh and blood had not revealed the truth to Peter that Jesus was both the Christ and the Son of the living God, but that Jesus' heavenly Father had, which would support your observation that the Jews were fiercely monotheistic and needed special nudgings.

It would take the Father's intervention to expand their horizons, just as it took the Transfiguration experience to further confirm in Peter's mind that Jesus was much more than any itinerant Rabbi. He was the focal point of the law (Moses) and the prophets (Elijah). Interestingly, this event is in all three of the Synoptics -Matthew 17:1-9, Mark 9:2-8, Luke 9:28-36- but not in John!

Peace,
Respectfully.

I have read The Bible and i discovered that men have added so many things that prophet Jesus never said.

Did you know that prophet Jesus was a human being born from a virgin Mary and when he was raised to Heaven by God, he never said i will take all the sins from all mankind, so, i can't imagine who invented a lie about taking all the sins and paying with blood because if all Christians today believe that prophet jesus will pay with his own blood for all their sins then if you want to be like Christ then maybe you should follow what you believe - pay with blood.

No wait, don't pay with blood, just read The Quran to see what devil has added to The Bible and you will understand.

God willing.

Peace.

bmz,

Where in the Qur'an do you read that Jesus was raised to Heaven by God?

"i can't imagine who invented a lie about taking all the sins and paying with blood."

John 1:29 The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him and said, "Look, the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world!"

Have you never read about the meaning of the Passover lamb in the law of Moses? See: http://www.allaboutjesuschrist.org/lamb-of-go...

You call John a liar. I call Mohammad a liar.

bmz, OOPS! The above post should be addressed to Muslim.

Aisha wrote:

bmz,
Where in the Qur'an do you read that Jesus was raised to Heaven by God?
"i can't imagine who invented a lie about taking all the sins and paying with blood."
John 1:29 The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him and said, "Look, the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world!"
Have you never read about the meaning of the Passover lamb in the law of Moses? See: http://www.allaboutjesuschrist.org/lamb-of-go...
You call John a liar. I call Mohammad a liar.

Peace,
Respectfully.

Read The Quran and you'll see. Don't listen to me, don't listen to them, listen to your own mind, use your own judgment.

I thought all Christians today believe that prophet Jesus died on the cross and will be tkaing all their sins?

Correct me if i'm wrong.

Prophet Muhammad was not a liar, prophet Jesus was not a liar, people added the stuff to these two men.

Peace.

bmz wrote:

<quoted text>
Forget about my prophet.
Christians are worshipping a false God. Everyone knows that, including the Jews, who knew God better than the pagan Gentiles.
Your scripture confirms that Jesus is neither the Son of God nor God. Since there is no evidence from Jesus himself, you cannot worship him. That is what matters most.

I was not refereing to your prophet, but to you. And the scripture does say that Jesus Christ is God. And Jesus did allow people to worship Him. And He did not correct them when they accused Him of claiming to be equal with God.
Touche'

Sound Doc wrote:

<quoted text>
I was not refereing to your prophet, but to you. And the scripture does say that Jesus Christ is God. And Jesus did allow people to worship Him. And He did not correct them when they accused Him of claiming to be equal with God.
Touche'

Peace,
Respectfully.

Where in The Bible does it say that prophet Jesus was a god?
If you are saiyng that prophet Jesus was equal to god, then how can yous ay that he was also a god? How can he be two entities and equal to himself at the same time?

You're not making any sense here, can you please clarify?
Peace.

Muslim,

Sorry, I misread what you posted. Jesus being raised to heven may or may not be in the Qur'an.

"I thought all Christians today believe that prophet Jesus died on the cross and will be tkaing all their sins?"

They should.

"Where in The Bible does it say that prophet Jesus was a god?"

What do you mean by "a god?" In any case, it is implicit. He forgave sin (Mark 2:1-12) If he was a good Jew, how could he assume such an authority that was reserved for the priesthood? Even so, in their case, the priest was the petitioner, not the granter of pardon. Jesus pardoned by his own authority. Where did he get this authority?

"How can he be two entities and equal to himself at the same time?"

Good question! The Church wrestled with this question for centuries. You have been taught to dismiss the Nicene Creed as so much blasphemous nonsense, but why don't you try to figure out how a man can be God at the same time? The Church eventually coined a term to describe Jesus as homoousias: fully human, fully divine, possessing two natures that exist together without confusion. This is what happens when what is immaterial (God's Word) becomes material (Jesus the man). It made no sense to Mohammad, but who was he? Some guy who had terrifying visions in a cave in Arabia 6 centuries later.

"Prophet Muhammad was not a liar, prophet Jesus was not a liar, people added the stuff to these two men."

So you say.

Aisha,

You wrote:

"This is what happens when what is immaterial (God's Word) becomes material (Jesus the man)."

I would add (for the sake of our Muslim interlocutors):

"This is what happens when what is immaterial (Allah's RUH) becomes material through by entering and developing in the human womb of The Virgin Mary."

correction:

"This is what happens when what is immaterial (Allah's RUH) becomes material by entering and developing in the human womb of The Virgin Mary."

Aisha wrote:

bmz,
Only Matthew's account has Jesus remarking that flesh and blood had not revealed the truth to Peter that Jesus was both the Christ and the Son of the living God, but that Jesus' heavenly Father had, which would support your observation that the Jews were fiercely monotheistic and needed special nudgings.
It would take the Father's intervention to expand their horizons, just as it took the Transfiguration experience to further confirm in Peter's mind that Jesus was much more than any itinerant Rabbi. He was the focal point of the law (Moses) and the prophets (Elijah). Interestingly, this event is in all three of the Synoptics -Matthew 17:1-9, Mark 9:2-8, Luke 9:28-36- but not in John!

I have already proved that Jesus was simply messiah.'Father' never intervened. The man was on his own. Flesh and blood is irrelevant.

Transfiguration does not lend any credibility to the claim of being Son of God. Moses went through transfiguration but that did not make a Son of God.

There is no other spin on this.

Aisha wrote:

Muslim,
Sorry, I misread what you posted. Jesus being raised to heven may or may not be in the Qur'an.
"I thought all Christians today believe that prophet Jesus died on the cross and will be tkaing all their sins?"
They should.
"Where in The Bible does it say that prophet Jesus was a god?"
What do you mean by "a god?" In any case, it is implicit. He forgave sin (Mark 2:1-12) If he was a good Jew, how could he assume such an authority that was reserved for the priesthood? Even so, in their case, the priest was the petitioner, not the granter of pardon. Jesus pardoned by his own authority. Where did he get this authority?
"How can he be two entities and equal to himself at the same time?"
Good question! The Church wrestled with this question for centuries. You have been taught to dismiss the Nicene Creed as so much blasphemous nonsense, but why don't you try to figure out how a man can be God at the same time? The Church eventually coined a term to describe Jesus as homoousias: fully human, fully divine, possessing two natures that exist together without confusion. This is what happens when what is immaterial (God's Word) becomes material (Jesus the man). It made no sense to Mohammad, but who was he? Some guy who had terrifying visions in a cave in Arabia 6 centuries later.
"Prophet Muhammad was not a liar, prophet Jesus was not a liar, people added the stuff to these two men."
So you say.

Peace,
Respectfully.

It's not implicit, prophet Jesus never said he was a god nor a god's son, in fact he often asked The Father for this and that which means that The Father had the Authority, right?

I mean, if god and jesus were the same, equal, then they would make same decisions, but if one asks the other all the time or even 10% of the time, then the asked one is in charge.

If prophet Jesus forgave sins, that still doesn't mean he was god. If you insult me, i can forgive you but i don't know if The Real God will forgive you. Needless tos ay, The Exalted God is The Most Merciful.

Peace.

@BMZ

As a Christian, cling to the words and actions of the Lord Jesus Christ. Christ is Messiah. Study him! Learn and obey his message.

Don't get your panties in a bunch worrying about what the liar Muhammad falsely preached regarding Christianity and Judaism, trinity, etc.

Gigolo Mo had some wacky ideas put into his noggin, like the idea that the Jews worship Uzair as son of God.

Discard the lies of Islam. Read and think before you move your verbal bowels.

@Muslim

God is God
Jesus is Son of God

Psalm 2

6 "I have installed my King [c]
on Zion, my holy hill."

7 I will proclaim the decree of the LORD :
He said to me, "You are my Son [d] ;
today I have become your Father.[e]

8 Ask of me,
and I will make the nations your inheritance,
the ends of the earth your possession.

9 You will rule them with an iron scepter [f] ;
you will dash them to pieces like pottery."

10 Therefore, you kings, be wise;
be warned, you rulers of the earth.

11 Serve the LORD with fear
and rejoice with trembling.

12 Kiss the Son, lest he be angry
and you be destroyed in your way,
for his wrath can flare up in a moment.
Blessed are all who take refuge in him.

Sound Doc wrote:

<quoted text>
I was not refereing to your prophet, but to you. And the scripture does say that Jesus Christ is God. And Jesus did allow people to worship Him. And He did not correct them when they accused Him of claiming to be equal with God.
Touche'

Whenever Jesus heard something silly, he would go either quiet or tell his disciples not to say silly things.

What scripture? We just showed here that Jesus was just a messiah according to Peter as reported by Mark and Luke.

Poor and suffering people clinging to his feet, begging him for help, etc., is not counted as WORSHIP. Did he not teach you how to WORSHIP, WHOM TO WORSHIP AND PRAY TO?

Heroes, Saints, Sadhus and Sufis are also worshipped but they do receive the adoration that God Almighty receives.

Do you see any disciple sitting down or standing before Jesus and worshipping him in the scriptures? No! Nada! Right?

Nobody worshipped Jesus as a God or a 'Son of God'. All Praise and Glory belongs to God and God does not give His Glory to anyone.

I am sure you cannot deny this as it comes from the same scripture where you look for prophecies in support of Jesus.

Yankee Doodle wrote:

@Muslim
God is God.

Of course, God is God, not man or an animal.

Peace,
respectfully.

Prophet Jesus was not the son of God, The God does not need a son, God is not human. God does not give birth and He wasn't born.

Prophet Jesus was human meaning that a human gave birth to him. Mary gave birth to a human Jesus because she was human herself and she can only give birth to a human, she cannot give birth to a cat or a plant.

Prophet Jesus is not the son of God. Why? Because God is not human, right?

You must also understand that in those times the word Father meant something or someone high in authority and not literal human father.

Peace.