Where Did the Devil Come From?

Was satan, the adversary and accuser of the brethren, one Lucifer, before he fell? I always thought he was until recently and am still leaning that way but it's interesting. I do believe though iniquity was FOUND in satan, thus making him the devil.

heres a good book on the topic. "The Birth Of Satan", by Wray and Mobley.

good read.

There is no devil. It is all within yourself. When you feel "tempted," that is YOU thinking about -- being desireous of -- things that you deem as "sinful." No being, evil or otherwise, is putting those thoughts in your head. There are no excuses. You can't say "the devil made me do it." That is primitive thinking.

A better question is about the genisis of "evil." If your god created a perfectly good world, then there could be no concept of evil unless, of course, that god had evil within itself. Oh right ...'free will.' But, free will to do what? Commit evil acts when there is no such concept as evil in that perfectly-good world?

If you think there is no goodness without the concept of evil, then forget about being good. Because, then, goodness requires evil.

You may read of the origin of Satan in Isaiah 14:12-17 and Ezekiel 28:11-19. One day he will be bound forever and we'll have to contend with him no more! What a wonderful day it will be. God bless you.

nugeme wrote:

You may read of the origin of Satan in Isaiah 14:12-17 and Ezekiel 28:11-19. One day he will be bound forever and we'll have to contend with him no more! What a wonderful day it will be. God bless you.

Yes, I have read that and that is what I have always believed, that when Lucifer fell he became satan. But there have been some different opinions shown and it got me to thinking.

Stick with God's Word - you can't go wrong!

Wayne..

" and it got me to thinking."

It got you to Thinking !!

LOL

Atheist

Thank you, Nugeme, for sharing such an interesting perspective.

If I may, I would like to offer a response to your comments as follows:

nugeme wrote:

You may read of the origin of Satan in Isaiah 14:12-17 and Ezekiel 28:11-19.

Please know that I have reviewed Isaiah 14:12-17 (KJV) and found that it says absolutely nothing about Satan. The name used in 14:12 is Lucifer, and it simply means the sun of the morning.

Also, I did not see the name Satan anywhere in the Ezekiel passage (28:11-19) that you quoted. Perhaps, the KJV bible forgot to include what you are claiming (smile).

nugeme wrote:

One day he will be bound forever and we'll have to contend with him no more! What a wonderful day it will be. God bless you.

Wow! It seems that you actually believe that Satan is a historical supernatural being. That’s pretty amazing (smile).

Again, thank you for sharing a thought provoking perspective with this forum.

gundee- I'm not going to get into a theological discussion on this board. This is Theology 101. You may wish to join a Bible study group or perhaps you already have formulated a theology on the subject that is just different from the orthodox teaching on Satan. If so - a discussion would prove fruitless as neither of us would budge!LOL. It is not really "amazing" that Christian theology has known the meaning of this passage for centuries. You act like I just "came up" with it. LOL.

The inquirer may read God's Word and allow the Holy Spirit to reveal the truth to him. You have a good day.

gundee- I just looked at your extensive posts on other threads. You spent so much time on them, it says to me you are very disquieted - even consumed. I hope you find truth and peace. Jesus said - " I AM the truth...." Good day.

I thought he came from Washington.

nugeme wrote:

gundee- I'm not going to get into a theological discussion on this board. This is Theology 101. You may wish to join a Bible study group or perhaps you already have formulated a theology on the subject that is just different from the orthodox teaching on Satan. If so - a discussion would prove fruitless as neither of us would budge! LOL. It is not really "amazing" that Christian theology has known the meaning of this passage for centuries. You act like I just "came up" with it. LOL.
The inquirer may read God's Word and allow the Holy Spirit to reveal the truth to him. You have a good day.

Thank you, Nugeme, for your insightful response.

I both respect your teaching and will honor your opinion that a discussion about this matter would probably prove fruitless. But please know that I am well aware of the Christian teachings on this matter. Thus, I totally agree that you did not just “come up” with this idea.

Again, thank you for sharing your interesting perspective.

Atheist wrote:

Wayne..
" and it got me to thinking."
It got you to Thinking !!
LOL
Atheist

Yes, you know. That thing YOU don't do so well?

Well, the Bible says that God created him.

Fallen, sinful, angel and 1/3 of angel friends (demons manifesting themselves today as spirits of the dead, ghosts).

Isaiah 14:12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!

Thank you, Nugeme, for your very informative response.

If I may, I would like to offer a response to your comments as follows:

nugeme wrote:

gundee- I just looked at your extensive posts on other threads. You spent so much time on them, it says to me you are very disquieted - even consumed.

Wow! So you assume that I am “disquieted” and perhaps,“consumed.” I find such an assumption to be very interesting. You see, I have posted almost 1,100 posts since Jun 07 (which average out to be about 100 posts per month), whereas you have posted almost 900 since Oct 07 (which average out to be about 118 posts per month). Now, from a mathematical perspective, who would you say is “disquieted” or “consumed”(smile)?

At any rate, I must admit that as a retiree, I have plenty of time to engage into thought provoking discussions on this forum. And since you have looked at some of my other posts, then you are aware that I am not a Christian, but a skeptic.

nugeme wrote:

I hope you find truth and peace. Jesus said - " I AM the truth...." Good day.

Thank you for your concern about my search truth and peace. And yes, Jesus did say,“I am the way, the truth, and the life.” However, His quote was most definitely not the first time these words were spoken, since Horus had said these exact same words about 3,000 years earlier. http://www.scribd.com/doc/232822/Horus-The-Fa...

Have a nice day, and thank you for sharing your insightful perspective.

Signs of the Times wrote:

Fallen, sinful, angel and 1/3 of angel friends (demons manifesting themselves today as spirits of the dead, ghosts).
Isaiah 14:12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!

Thank you, Signs of the Times, for your insightful comments.

But please know that Isaiah 14:12 does not mention anything about a fallen angel. In fact, the word "angel" is not mentioned anywhere in chapter 14. Also, verse 4 tells us that this chapter is a "proverb" against a Babylon king. If this is true, how could 14:12 possibly be referring to a fallen angel?

Again, thank you for sharing your thought provoking perspective with this forum.

Hello

Wayne..

Yaa you got that a little backwards..

It is you that isn't thinking..You've got your nose stuck in the BuyBull too much...

Should try some non fiction for awhile...

Atheist

gundee123 wrote:

<quoted text>
Thank you, Signs of the Times, for your insightful comments.
But please know that Isaiah 14:12 does not mention anything about a fallen angel. In fact, the word "angel" is not mentioned anywhere in chapter 14. Also, verse 4 tells us that this chapter is a "proverb" against a Babylon king. If this is true, how could 14:12 possibly be referring to a fallen angel?
Again, thank you for sharing your thought provoking perspective with this forum.

Hello Gundee!

Thought by most believers to be the "evil" one, the originating influence of the worst of man's crimes. This does not correspond to my deepest contemplative discernments, however. The definition that most closely approximates my understanding is from the Jewish Encyclopedia..." in the prologue to the Book of Job where Satan appears with other celestial beings, or 'son's of God' before the Diety, Satan is a member of the Divine Council who watches over human activity, but with the purpose of searching out men's sins and appearing as their "accuser". Which does serve to explain his historical villification, does it not? I mean, heres the Angel with a nose for unrighteousness. Not even the tiniest, teensiest little slide-by will go undetected. Thoughts buried so deep they don't even seem like our own anymore are brought to light, so to speak. A gauge of truthfulness. Where the God of Love is an old softie, Satan is right on hand to nip any denial of wrong before it buds and blooms. To expose all untoward thought. To keep us to the straight and narrow. So there is no forward progress without the willingness and the strength to face the most unbearable truth of ourself. No squaters in heaven! For myself, I was utterly unable to ultimately attribute any "evil" effects of/to/in myself to any but myself. Satan is the objective revealer of self to self.(No wonder his fearful bad rep, huh?)

Gundee123 ... you are SO polite. More power to you, dude. But, I like your comments.