Why Do I come here?

Oh the reasons are many - but one that I truly love, is the presumption of the Believers.

So many are eager for the Rapture, End of Days, Last call...and way too many think they're a lock to get in their God's club.

Never in my time as a Believer did I ever presume it was a lock. Because I actually believed in the most basic of Xtian beliefs, doctrines. I am human and prone to do stupid shyte to offend. That like A&E, I could at any moment screw it up...no matter what I just did good. Even believing.

I come to these forums, because of the Presumption of the Win, this P of W by so many Believers has a never ending fascination - because its the ultimate self-deception. Its where the real faith lies - that each Believer KNOWS what their God is thinking about them and its a lock.

Endlessly fascinating.

Punisher wrote:

Oh the reasons are many - but one that I truly love, is the presumption of the Believers.
So many are eager for the Rapture, End of Days, Last call...and way too many think they're a lock to get in their God's club.
Never in my time as a Believer did I ever presume it was a lock. Because I actually believed in the most basic of Xtian beliefs, doctrines. I am human and prone to do stupid shyte to offend. That like A&E, I could at any moment screw it up...no matter what I just did good. Even believing.
I come to these forums, because of the Presumption of the Win, this P of W by so many Believers has a never ending fascination - because its the ultimate self-deception. Its where the real faith lies - that each Believer KNOWS what their God is thinking about them and its a lock.
Endlessly fascinating.

You were never a believer. Guess that answers your question.

And, our salvation is guaranteed. The blood of Christ is on it.

Sola Scriptura wrote:

<quoted text>
You were never a believer. Guess that answers your question.
And, our salvation is guaranteed. The blood of Christ is on it.

John 10:27-28 - when Jesus says, "no one shall snatch them out of my hands," He does not mean we can't leave His hands. We can choose to walk away from Him.

Rev. 2:4-5 – Jesus tells the Ephesians that they abandoned the love they had at first and have fallen. Jesus warns them to repent and do the works they did at first, otherwise He will remove their lampstand (their awaited place in heaven).

Rev. 3:4 - in Sardis, Jesus explained that some people received the white garment and soiled it with sin.

Rev. 3:5 - Jesus says whoever conquers will not be blotted out of the book of life (see Exodus 32:33). This means that we can be blotted out of the book of life. We can have salvation, and then lose salvation by our choice.

Rev. 3:11 - Jesus says to hold fast to what we have, so that no one may seize our crown. Jesus teaches us that we can have the crown of salvation and lose it.

Sola Scriptura wrote:

<quoted text>
You were never a believer. Guess that answers your question.
And, our salvation is guaranteed. The blood of Christ is on it.

False. You can not take from, nor grant belief to - anyone. Beliefs are changeable. Even in your false view on the matter.

And thank you for bringing up yet another of my fav's. Due to the very logic of your Belief system, you have to honor the changing of beliefs under the principle of Free-will. But you wont. You will lift the fence and allow your little idiosyncratic loop-holes scurry under...

Or - under the Infamous Proty cornerstone, the Doctrine of Election, I'm predetermined and therefore destined to dis-belief and in a manner of speaking, I never did truly believe...

But the Doctrine of Election negates unconditional Free-Will..which doesnt let you apply free-will when you need it to apply...to condemn people like me...because All I have to do is Believe as you tell me to...which is of course not free-will either...

Soooo, we're left with the actuality of the matter. You can not take from, or grant belief to anyone. Beliefs can and do change. Its the law.

No, there is no guarantee, none. And you know it, because even the words of your God are no guarantee...and most especially - neither are yours.

Nettiebelle wrote:

<quoted text>John 10:27-28 - when Jesus says, "no one shall snatch them out of my hands," He does not mean we can't leave His hands. We can choose to walk away from Him.
Rev. 2:4-5 – Jesus tells the Ephesians that they abandoned the love they had at first and have fallen. Jesus warns them to repent and do the works they did at first, otherwise He will remove their lampstand (their awaited place in heaven).
Rev. 3:4 - in Sardis, Jesus explained that some people received the white garment and soiled it with sin.
Rev. 3:5 - Jesus says whoever conquers will not be blotted out of the book of life (see Exodus 32:33). This means that we can be blotted out of the book of life. We can have salvation, and then lose salvation by our choice.
Rev. 3:11 - Jesus says to hold fast to what we have, so that no one may seize our crown. Jesus teaches us that we can have the crown of salvation and lose it.

Then there's the olde but a good one, the exact verse I forget - but it goes something like this. "Pray and they will be unconditionally answered."

Sola Scriptura wrote:

<quoted text>
You were never a believer. Guess that answers your question.
And, our salvation is guaranteed. The blood of Christ is on it.

No Wayne, he was just never a Fundamentalist.

Punisher wrote:

<quoted text>Then there's the olde but a good one, the exact verse I forget - but it goes something like this. "Pray and they will be unconditionally answered."

Well, I found Acts 2:21
21 And everyone who calls
on the name of the Lord will be saved.

IMO, that would mean that they accept and live according to the authority of God though.

Sola Scriptura wrote:

<quoted text>
You were never a believer. Guess that answers your question.
And, our salvation is guaranteed. The blood of Christ is on it.

WOW, ya sure made Punisher point. Your Christian club house is closed.LOL

Punisher wrote:

False. You can not take from, nor grant belief to - anyone. Beliefs are changeable. Even in your false view on the matter.
And thank you for bringing up yet another of my fav's. Due to the very logic of your Belief system, you have to honor the changing of beliefs under the principle of Free-will. But you wont. You will lift the fence and allow your little idiosyncratic loop-holes scurry under...
Or - under the Infamous Proty cornerstone, the Doctrine of Election, I'm predetermined and therefore destined to dis-belief and in a manner of speaking, I never did truly believe...
But the Doctrine of Election negates unconditional Free-Will..which doesnt let you apply free-will when you need it to apply...to condemn people like me...because All I have to do is Believe as you tell me to...which is of course not free-will either...
Soooo, we're left with the actuality of the matter. You can not take from, or grant belief to anyone. Beliefs can and do change. Its the law.
No, there is no guarantee, none. And you know it, because even the words of your God are no guarantee...and most especially - neither are yours.

I know it's early in the thread, but I'm prepared to call 'game, set, and match'.

Star_Walker wrote:

But what is even more fascinating to me is the bigger picture.
On what an effective FEAR mongering punishment/reward brainwashing system the book of lies is all by itself. To be such a primitive work of using FEAR to tear down someone's entire belief system and replacing it with such insane crap, AND completely breaking down their ability to think rationally, turning them into such mindless Christbot zombies, is something that begs studying.

A common theme I hear from ex-believers is how amazed they are at some of the BS they used to believe. You can count me amongst that lot too. It still disturbs me a little at how gullible I was, and leaves me wondering at what obvious truths I could be missing now.

FSM wrote:

<quoted text>I know it's early in the thread, but I'm prepared to call 'game, set, and match'.

F that, she's got to get into the game to compete...

FSM wrote:

<quoted text>A common theme I hear from ex-believers is how amazed they are at some of the BS they used to believe. You can count me amongst that lot too. It still disturbs me a little at how gullible I was, and leaves me wondering at what obvious truths I could be missing now.

Or better yet, what "obvious" TRUTHS you are missing...

NDanger wrote:

Or better yet, what "obvious" TRUTHS you are missing...

If they're that obvious, man up and point them out to me. This should be good. ;-)

Star_Walker wrote:

<quoted text>
If they are THAT "obvious", then how come none of you "Christians" cannot agree on much of anything?

Just because we don't "agree" with you...

FSM wrote:

<quoted text>If they're that obvious, man up and point them out to me. This should be good. ;-)

Well, like everything here, there are 2 sides, ie what you believe and what I believe. To me, they are obvious, to you, they are also obvious, just 2 different sides of the coin. I know I can state things and they won't change your mind and vice versa. Either we change our beliefs or we agree to disagree...

NDanger wrote:

Well, like everything here, there are 2 sides, ie what you believe and what I believe. To me, they are obvious, to you, they are also obvious, just 2 different sides of the coin. I know I can state things and they won't change your mind and vice versa. Either we change our beliefs or we agree to disagree...

I can agree to disagree. For a fundamentalist, that's fairly accommodating of you. Thanks.

Star_Walker wrote:

And I have to count myself in that group. Although it disturbed me greatly, that "I" with such a unique spiritual head start, even partially fell for such insane crap that has really nothing to do with God or anything spiritual. I suppose a lot had to do with the 3 years of heavy duty brainwashing at a Catholic high school, that I had to go along with or fail. But I still should have fought off such obvious lies better, even though being just a kid. Although it made me stronger and much more careful to examine things before I believe it.

I'm fully with you on that last sentence. I've tried to BS-proof myself as much as is humanly possible.

FSM wrote:

<quoted text>I can agree to disagree. For a fundamentalist, that's fairly accommodating of you. Thanks.

Nick's OK. He got rattled yesterday and went into full fundie attack mode but for the most part he's not that difficult to get along with.

FSM wrote:

<quoted text>I'm fully with you on that last sentence. I've tried to BS-proof myself as much as is humanly possible.

Not me. I'm trying as hard as possible to believe a bunch of bullshít before my interview with Father Marshall on Monday afternoon. Anybody know if atheism is a venial or a mortal sin?

NDanger wrote:

<quoted text>
Well, like everything here, there are 2 sides, ie what you believe and what I believe. To me, they are obvious, to you, they are also obvious, just 2 different sides of the coin. I know I can state things and they won't change your mind and vice versa. Either we change our beliefs or we agree to disagree...

Two sides of the same coin ? Dude, it's two entirely different universes.